Australian Politics Forum - Green Economy/Jobs

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Jul 9^th, 2009 at 9:23pm

Kevin Rudd, Penny Wong and Peter Garrett. would have us all believe that the Green Economy is the way to go. That people just need retraining that money and jobs will flow from this new way. Well I for one never believed the pie in the sky forecasts about this brave new world.

President Obama spoke to the US Congress citing Spain as a world leader in Green Economics.

Quote:

“Think of what’s happening in countries like Spain, Germany and Japan, where they’re making real investments in renewable energy,” said Obama while lobbying Congress, in January to pass the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. “They’re surging ahead of us, poised to take the lead in these new industries.”

“Their governments have harnessed their people’s hard work and ingenuity with bold investments — investments that are paying off in good, high-wage jobs — jobs they won’t lose to other countries,” said Obama. “There is no reason we can’t do the same thing right here in America. … In the process, we’ll put nearly half a million people to work building wind turbines and solar panels; constructing fuel-efficient cars and buildings; and developing the new energy technologies that will lead to new jobs, more savings, and a cleaner, safer planet in the bargain.”

Now we have the first reports on its real effects in the real world.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #1 - Jul 9^th, 2009 at 9:34pm

Quote:

Every “green job” created with government money in Spain over the last eight years came at the cost of 2.2 regular jobs, and only one in 10 of the newly created green jobs became a permanent job, says a new study released this month. The study draws parallels with the green jobs programs of the Obama administration.

http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=46453

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth. Reply #2 - Jul 9^th, 2009 at 9:44pm Have a read http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/05/green-jobs-are-really-about-get-rich.html
Back to top	6a00d83451e28a69e201156f9a7129970b-800wi-1.jpg (49 KB \| 36 ) IP Logged

skippy Ex Member	Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth. Reply #3 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 9:31am The confusionalists are confused, they seem to think it better to have a job than to have a world to live in, because that's what it comes down too. These confusionalists are very arrogant to think their jobs are more important than our children's future. Why do the confusionalists hate kids so much?
Back to top	IP Logged

pjb05

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 1404
Gender: male

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #4 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 9:43am

Quote:

The confusionalists are confused, they seem to think it better to have a job than to have a world to live in, because that's what it comes down too.
These confusionalists are very arrogant to think their jobs are more important than our children's future.
Why do the confusionalists hate kids so much?

Yes well an advocate always knows the answer, especially an AGW advocate. I think that's why they come up with the label 'confusionalist' for those who don't tow their line. Greenie scares have had almost a 100% track record on being wrong, so why should we accept without scruitiny what they are claiming now? Economic growth and industrialisation is lifting billions of people out of poverty and it relies on cheap and reliable energy. If we must go down the low carbon path it's doubful that cap and trade and putting all our eggs in the renewable basket is the best way to go.

Back to top

IP Logged

skippy Ex Member	Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth. Reply #5 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 9:57am Quote: Greenie scares have had almost a 100% track record on being wrong Care to share all that with us? Why do you hate children?
Back to top	IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth. Reply #6 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:13am Care to withdraw that ridiculous remark. Care to address the topic? Care to show where this report from Spain is wrong? Anyone with an ounce of common-sense would have seen this reality coming.
Back to top	IP Logged

pjb05

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 1404
Gender: male

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #7 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:19am

Quote:

Greenie scares have had almost a 100% track record on being wrong

Care to share all that with us?
Why do you hate children?

How can wanting to lift children out of poverty be construed as hating them. You just said you don't care about jobs, do you hate people?

As to greenie scares well just look back a few decades, like the dire warnings of catastrophic over-population. Our unchecked consumption, we were told, was depleting the earth’s resources and would wipe humanity out in a massive population crash. Paul Ehrlich’s 1968 bestseller, The Population Bomb, forecasted hundreds of millions of deaths per year throughout the 1970s, to be averted, he insisted, only by mass population control “by compulsion if voluntary methods fail.”

But instead of global-scale famine and death, the 1970s witnessed an agricultural revolution. Despite a near-doubling of world population, food production continues to grow due to technological innovation.

Then there are all the chemical scares like alar and DDT. And what about their zero tolerance of nuclear power at a time when they are saying we must urgently reduce our CO2 emissions?

Back to top

IP Logged

skippy

Ex Member

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #8 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:37am

Grendel wrote on Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:13am:

Care to withdraw that ridiculous remark.

Care to address the topic?
Care to show where this report from Spain is wrong?
Anyone with an ounce of common-sense would have seen this reality coming.

No ridiculous remarks, if someone thinks that their job is more important than the future of this planet and its children they clearly care more about themselves and their job than they do their children.
As for Spain, I think you'll find most jobs created these days are casual rather than permanent, its been happening here too boof.

If the numbers are correct and Spain is creating a Green job at the expense of dirty jobs and in its first ten years is already achieving fifty percent of these old dirty jobs with clean Green ones that's fantastic.
As the Green industry grows many more jobs will be created.
Throughout history jobs change, just ask the poor old candle stick makers.
Green power is clean, renewable and once established much cheaper if not free.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #9 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:45am

You are lving in denial Skippy... living in denial.

Denialist, alarmist.... the list goes on.

No amount of emotional claptrap will make you right.

You read it but still don't get it.
There is no one for one job swap.
No growth in employment no equity in salary.
Google it and read the report. (Unfortunately I can only find .pdf files of it).

Back to top

IP Logged

skippy

Ex Member

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #10 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 11:15am

Grendel wrote on Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:45am:

You are lving in denial Skippy... living in denial.

Denialist, alarmist.... the list goes on.

No amount of emotional claptrap will make you right.

You read it but still don't get it.
There is no one for one job swap.
No growth in employment no equity in salary.
Google it and read the report. (Unfortunately I can only find .pdf files of it).

No denial here boof, I understand that in the main most reputable environmental scientists in the world say we have a problem with climate change.
Those same scientists believe it is in this worlds best interests to reduce the pollution from things like coal and oil and replace it with renewable and cleaner options.
There will be much growth in employment when the govs of the world embrace it , instead of depending on things like oil which will dry up in our children's life time if not ours.

I vote GREENS, I care about our childrens future.

Back to top

IP Logged

skippy

Ex Member

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #11 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 11:30am

pjb05 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2009 at 10:19am:

Quote:

Greenie scares have had almost a 100% track record on being wrong

Care to share all that with us?
Why do you hate children?

How can wanting to lift children out of poverty be construed as hating them. You just said you don't care about jobs, do you hate people?

As to greenie scares well just look back a few decades, like the dire warnings of catastrophic over-population. Our unchecked consumption, we were told, was depleting the earth’s resources and would wipe humanity out in a massive population crash. Paul Ehrlich’s 1968 bestseller, The Population Bomb, forecasted hundreds of millions of deaths per year throughout the 1970s, to be averted, he insisted, only by mass population control “by compulsion if voluntary methods fail.”

But instead of global-scale famine and death, the 1970s witnessed an agricultural revolution. Despite a near-doubling of world population, food production continues to grow due to technological innovation.

Then there are all the chemical scares like alar and DDT. And what about their zero tolerance of nuclear power at a time when they are saying we must urgently reduce our CO2 emissions?

So in other words you lied, there are no previous GREEN SCARE CAMPAINS, that ok I already new that, just wanted you to show you had no idea.
I'll bet all those Africans are pizzing themselves laughing that they're so well fed.
I wonder why China introduced the one child policy? all the peasants have heaps of food hey?

Not to mention those bloody Indians, god they're fat little buggers.
Why would a country like Australia want to spend billions on building a nuclear industry ,that would take at least fifteen years to build if they start today, when we have so much renewable energy available for free?

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth. Reply #12 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 11:39am Apparently you don't understand a bloody thing Skippy. We aren't discussing CLIMATE CHANGE or AGW we are discussing the GREEN ECONOMY and the jobs myth. Let me know when that has sunk in OK. As for the GREENS... don't start me.
Back to top	IP Logged

skippy

Ex Member

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #13 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 11:43am

Grendel wrote on Jul 10^th, 2009 at 11:39am:

Apparently you don't understand a bloody thing Skippy.

We aren't discussing CLIMATE CHANGE or AGW we are discussing the GREEN ECONOMY and the jobs myth.

Let me know when that has sunk in OK.

As for the GREENS... don't start me.

I know.

Quote:

There will be much growth in employment when the govs of the world embrace it , instead of depending on things like oil which will dry up in our children's life time if not ours.

I vote GREENS, I care about our childrens future

Why do you hate Green jobs?

Back to top

IP Logged

mantra

Gold Member

Offline

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female

Re: Green Economy/Jobs - a myth.
Reply #14 - Jul 10^th, 2009 at 12:15pm

Grendel could be talking about the sustainability of Green jobs. There's propaganda being spread at the moment that initially renewables will create high employment - but twice as many jobs will be lost in the coal industry and even those initial Green jobs will be reduced eventually.

This is untrue. Renewables will offer a wide scope of long term employment - in particular to our young people who are the most disadvantaged in the workforce.

Back to top

IP Logged