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Plimer (Read 6072 times)
Grendel
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Re: Plimer
Reply #15 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:09am
 
YAWN...  that isn't trying harder now is it.

How about posting your CV against Plimer's?  That ought to be interesting.
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #16 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:17am
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:09am:
YAWN...  that isn't trying harder now is it.

How about posting your CV against Plimer's?  That ought to be interesting.


Hell yeah! Does Plimer have any qualifications on Environmental Science?

Does he have any working knowledge of Climate modelling?

No??????
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #17 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:20am
 
Just as a reminder, Ian Plimer's reputation is rapidly going down the gurgler:

Kurt Lambeck, earth scientist and president of the Australian Academy of Science, comments on ABC Radio National’s “Ockham’s Razor” about Heaven and Earth.  Audio with transcript. (Short link: bit.ly/klambeckplimer )

   To give his arguments a semblance of respectability the book is replete with references. But the choice is very selective. Plimer will quote, for example, a paper that appears to support his argument, but then he does not mention that the conclusions therein have been completely refuted in subsequent papers. Elsewhere, he refers to a specific question raised in published work but does not mention that this issue has subsequently been resolved, has been incorporated in subsequent analyses, and is no longer relevant. Or he simply misquotes the work or takes it out of context. An example of this is a reference to my own in the Mediterranean where he gives quite a misleading twist to what we actually concluded.

   Other examples can be identified in this section, and throughout the book. Together they point to either carelessness, to a lack of understanding of the underlying science, or to an attempt to see the world through tinted spectacles.

Climate scientist Barry Brook has a page of notes on Heaven and Earth, including links to other commentaries.  (Short link: tinyurl.com/plimer )

   Ian Plimer’s book is a case study in how not to be objective. Decide on your position from the outset, and then seek out all the facts that apparently support your case, and discard or ignore all of those that contravene it. He quotes a couple of thousand peer-reviewed scientific papers when mounting specific arguments. What Ian doesn’t say is that the vast majority of these authors have considered the totality of evidence on the topic of human-induced global warming and conclude that it is real and a problem.

   [I]t may well be held up as an example for the future. An example of just how deluded and misrepresentative the psuedo-sceptical war against science really was in the first decade of the 21st century.

Mathematician Ian Enting has produced Ian Plimer’s ‘Heaven + Earth’—Checking the Claims, a 31-page document listing the errors and problems in Heaven and Earth. (Short link: bit.ly/entingplimer )

   Overall:

   • it has numerous internal inconsistencies;

   • it often misrepresents the operation of the IPCC and the content of IPCC reports;

   • in spite of the extensive referencing, key data are unattributed and the content of references is often mis-quoted.

   Most importantly, Ian Plimer fails to establish his claim that the human influence on climate can be ignored, relative to natural variations.

Earth scientist Andrew Glikson responds with Plimer wants to talk science? OK, here goes… in Crikey (Short link: bit.ly/gliksonplimer )

   Plimer’s book claims current global warming is a natural event consistent with climate variability through time and attributed primarily to the sun.

   The book negates the well documented consistent relations between climate and carbon gases, which through the Earth’s history resulted in temperature changes in the range of several degrees C , including abrupt climate changes and related mass extinction of species .

Climate scientist David Karoly reviews Heaven and Earth (audio with transcript):

   Given the errors, the non-science, and the nonsense in this book, it should be classified as science fiction in any library that wastes its funds buying it. The book can then be placed on the shelves alongside Michael Crichton’s State of Fear, another science fiction book about climate change with many footnotes. The only difference is that there are fewer scientific errors in State of Fear.

No science in Plimer’s primer by astronomer Michael Ashley in The Australian. (Short link:  bit.ly/ashleyplimer )

   Plimer has done an enormous disservice to science, and the dedicated scientists who are trying to understand climate and the influence of humans, by publishing this book. It is not “merely” atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrong for Plimer to be right. It would require a rewriting of biology, geology, physics, oceanography, astronomy and statistics. Plimer’s book deserves to languish on the shelves along with similar pseudo-science such as the writings of Immanuel Velikovsky and Erich von Daniken.

The science is missing from Ian Plimer’s “Heaven and Earth” by computer scientist and climate change commentator Tim Lambert.  (Short link:  bit.ly/tlambertplimer )

   He accepts any factoid that supports his conclusion and rejects any evidence that contradicts his conclusion.

A review by geologist and planetary scientist Malcolm Walter on The Science Show, ABC Radio National.  Audio. (Short link: bit.ly/walterplimer )

   He has done a disservice to science and the community at large.

Mike Pope does a nice job at Online Opinion of debunking Plimer’s central claims in Heaven, Earth and science fiction, concluding:

   To avoid following the polar bear to extinction, homo sapiens would do well to reject the science fiction espoused by Plimer. That may be a bit harsh on science fiction writers whose work is often prescient, even plausible. No such claims can be made for Ian Plimer’s book.

http://tbp.mattandrews.id.au/2009/06/06/debunking-plimer-heaven-and-earth/
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Grendel
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Re: Plimer
Reply #18 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:48am
 
What do you expect they are all on the bandwagon ie the other side of the debate.

Unfortunately that side tends to like attacking people just like you do.

YET PLIMER AND MANY OTHER WELL CREDENTIALED PEOPLE DISSENT FROM THEIR POV.

These are all people you treat with disdain.  I find that pathetic.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #19 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 12:03pm
 
Al Gore, who is not even a scientist, was attacked for 14 scientific errors in his book. In most cases they were shown not to be erroneous in the first place.

With Plimer, it's up to 38 pages so far, and counting - and he claims to be a scientist!   Grin 


another view:

Professor Charlie Veron, former chief scientist at the Australian Institute of Marine Science, said every original statement Plimer makes in the book on coral and coral reefs is incorrect, and that "[Plimer] serve[s] up diagrams from no acknowledged source, diagrams known to be obsolete and diagrams that combine bits of science with bits of fiction
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Re: Plimer
Reply #20 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 12:09pm
 
Gore has 35 errors...  some I cede some I don't.

J-Curve anyone.

puhlease dont give me lists of names I can give you just as many names from the otherside.

why don't you stop wasting time and get a Plimer quote on the CO2 theory and tell us all why it's wrong. Prove it wrong.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #21 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 12:24pm
 
Well the fact that you are an advocate of it would be the first clue.

Hysterical, shrill denial, from the loony right.

That is right up your "left????" alley.

Anyone whose degree of self awareness is so low, that after proffering right, and extreme right wing views, as well as the almost compulsory ultra nationalist jargon, for years and years, and yet still contends that they are politically left, certainly has credibility issues, as well as identity issues.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Re: Plimer
Reply #22 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 12:26pm
 
You are an idiot Mozz pls go away.

This isn't politics to people who care.

Not shrill, not extreme right or even rightwing, certainly not looney.

let me guess you haven't read or understood anything.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Oh and please don't lie about my political beliefs ok.  It's pathetic coming from you.

Oh and Mozz one thing I think you'll find if you open your eyes and switch on your brain and that is that Plimer is disgusted with the politicisation of the subject and the science.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #23 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 1:45pm
 
Grendel - you haven't answered my Plimer question yet -

Quote:
Hey Grendel? What's your source for the CO2 levels in the Cambrian?


- and make sure you show the 'Plimer' citation - and less of the 'Plimer' whingeing.  Grin (I just invented a new swear word)
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Re: Plimer
Reply #24 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 2:50pm
 
I already answered it ...  so please stop lying for just a minute and try to answer some questions.  painful as they may be to you.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #25 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 7:12pm
 
Give up muso, it is like talking to a child.
Just happens to be a very, naughty, petulant child.

Grendel NEVER answers questions, just states that he already has.
He uses the same tactic on any issue which leaves him without facts to back up his position.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #26 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 7:49pm
 
Hey Mozz, bugger off...  I answered his question, that makes you stupid and wrong, it also makes him a liar...  which many of us are already aware of.

You obviously didn't notice but there was a caveat put on this topic...  there was also a link to text for what the topic was about...  yet all we've had is the same old ridicule and rubbish from the usual suspects.

Why don't you surprise me and actually read the topic opening text and make a comment on it...  seems Bozo is incapable of it.
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« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2009 at 7:59pm by Grendel »  
 
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Re: Plimer
Reply #27 - Jul 7th, 2009 at 8:36am
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 1st, 2009 at 6:56pm:
karoly...  puhlease...  what a wanker, propaganda puppet for the Greens AGW push.  Only Gore has less credibility.  same goes for Matthew...  how many more vested interest Alarmists you gonna quote?



You see that's the kind of retort you come up with. There were some perfectly good arguments made by all those people, yet you chose to ignore them and attack the person, not the argument.

For example:
Quote:
Yes, this did occur at various times, for example 40 million years ago during the Eocene. But does Plimer tell his readers that at this time sea levels were 50 metres higher than today? Certainly humanity did not yet exist and importantly all of our cities, agriculture and infrastructure were millions of years from being built


What does it matter what conditions were like on Earth during geological time? There was no human civilization.

Can you imagine if the conditions changed to those of 200 million years ago? Human beings would be unable to breath because of the low oxygen content. During this period, atmospheric oxygen levels dropped to around 12%. The land animals of the day that survived had novel solutions to this. Rather than having a diaphragm to force air in and out of lungs,  Saurischian dinosaurs had lungs attached to a series of thin-walled air sacs that functioned something like bellows to move air through the body.

Life will adapt, yes, but not in the space of a few generations. There are limitations to evolutionary processes.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #28 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 11:07am
 
muso wrote on Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:20am:
Just as a reminder, Ian Plimer's reputation is rapidly going down the gurgler



Yeah, the loser can only manage to get on the cover of The Spectator nowadays.


http://www.spectator.co.uk/i/the-magazine/features/3755623/meet-the-man-who-has-...
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Re: Plimer
Reply #29 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 11:18am
 
Yes...  unfortunately the great hypocrite Bozo can only come up with stuff like this...

Quote:
You see that's the kind of retort you come up with. There were some perfectly good arguments made by all those people, yet you chose to ignore them and attack the person, not the argument.


POT KETTLE... VERY BLACK!

At least I read and listen to other povs unlike Bozo.
Oh or being totally disingenuous post comical drawings of Trilobites.  Cheesy
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