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Plimer (Read 6079 times)
Grendel
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Plimer
Jul 1st, 2009 at 10:33am
 
Name-calling, mesage shooting Alarmists need read no further...

Doomed Planet

Quote:
“Today’s debate about global warming is essentially a debate about freedom. The environmentalists would like to mastermind each and every possible (and impossible) aspect of our lives.”

Vaclav Klaus
Blue Planet in Green Shackles


https://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2009/06/transcript-ian-plimer-interview

BC: You're a bit of a poster boy for the climate change skeptic movement.

IP: Well, I'm not sceptical about climate change at all. Climate's always changed. They always have, and they always will, and that's in many ways the purpose of the book that if you ignore history you come up with a conclusion which just doesn't fit in with the evidence, and that is that we're suddenly in a period where climates change. We're not. Climates always change, they change much quicker and much greater than anything we measure today.
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skippy
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Re: Plimer
Reply #1 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 10:57am
 
| May 09, 2009
Article from:  The Australian
Heaven and Earth
By Ian Plimer
Connor Court, 503pp, $39.95
ONE of the peculiar things about being an astronomer is that you receive, from time to time, monographs on topics such as "a new theory of the electric universe", or "Einstein was wrong", or "the moon landings were a hoax".

The writings are always earnest, often involve conspiracy theories and are scientifically worthless.

One such document that arrived last week was Ian Plimer's Heaven and Earth. What makes this case unusual is that Plimer is a professor -- of mining geology -- at the University of Adelaide. If the subject were anything less serious than the future habitability of the planet Earth, I wouldn't go to the trouble of writing this review.

Plimer sets out to refute the scientific consensus that human emissions of CO2 have changed the climate. He states in his acknowledgments that the book evolved from a dinner in London with three young lawyers who believed the consensus. As Plimer writes: "Although these three had more than adequate intellectual material to destroy the popular paradigm, they had neither the scientific knowledge nor the scientific training to pull it apart stitch by stitch. This was done at dinner."

This is a remarkable claim. If Plimer is right and he is able to show that the work of literally thousands of oceanographers, solar physicists, biologists, atmospheric scientists, geologists, and snow and ice researchers during the past 100 years is fundamentally flawed, then it would rank as one of the greatest discoveries of the century and would almost certainly earn him a Nobel prize. This is the scale of Plimer's claim.

Before reading any further, I examined Plimer's publication list on the University of Adelaide website to see what he has published in refereed journals. There are a scant 17 such papers since 1994, two as first author with the titles "Manganoan garnet rocks associated with the Broken Hill Pb-Zn-Ag orebody" and "Kasolite from the British Empire Mine". Absolutely nothing on climate science.

Now, before I am accused of attacking the man and not the argument, let me point out that scientists regard peer-reviewed journal publications as fundamental for advancing science. They allow ideas to be exchanged, tested, improved on and, quite frequently, discarded. If Plimer can do what he claims, and can prove that human emissions of CO2 have no effect on the climate, then he owes it to the scientific community and, in fact, humanity, to publish his arguments in a refereed journal.

Perhaps we will find a stitch-by-stitch demolition of climate science in his book, as promised? No such luck. The arguments that Plimer advances in the 503 pages and 2311 footnotes in Heaven and Earth are nonsense. The book is largely a collection of contrarian ideas and conspiracy theories that are rife in the blogosphere. The writing is rambling and repetitive; the arguments flawed and illogical.

He recycles a graph, without attribution, from Martin Durkin's Great Global Warming Swindle documentary, neglecting even to make the changes that Durkin made following an outcry over the fact that the past two decades of temperature measurements had been mysteriously deleted.

Plimer claims that scientists such as himself, who do not agree with the consensus, are labelled deniers, "yet their scientific doubts are not addressed". Nothing could be further from the truth. All of Plimer's arguments have been addressed ad nauseam by patient climate scientists on websites or in the literature.

To appreciate the errors in Plimer's book you don't have to be a climate scientist. For example, take the measurement of the global average CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. This is obviously important, so scientists measure it with great care at many locations across the world.

Precision measurements have been made daily since 1958 at Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii, a mountain-top site with a clear airflow unaffected by local pollution. The data is in excellent agreement with ice cores from several sites in Antarctica and Greenland. Thousands of scientific papers have been written on the topic, hundreds of scientists are involved from many independent research groups.

Plimer, however, writes that a simple home experiment indoors can show that in a week, CO2 can vary by 75 parts per million by volume, equal to about 40 years' worth of change at the present rate. He thinks this "rings alarm bells" on the veracity of the Mauna Loa data, which shows a smoothly rising concentration.While it is undoubtedly true that if you measure CO2 in your home it could vary by large amounts from day to day -- depending, for example, on whether you have the windows open or closed, or how many people are in the house at the time -- this is not the right way to measure a global average. That's why scientists go to mountain-tops or Antarctica or to the isolated Cape Grimm on the Tasmanian coast rather than measuring CO2 in their living rooms.

Incredible as it may seem, this quality of argument is typical of the book. While the text is annotated profusely with footnotes and refers to papers in the top journals, thus giving it the veneer of scholarship, it is often the case that the cited articles do not support the text. Plimer repeatedly veers off to the climate sceptic's journal of choice, the bottom-tier Energy and Environment, to advance all manner of absurd ideas
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Grendel
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Re: Plimer
Reply #2 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 11:12am
 
Is that the Ashley article Scrappy?  Already been refuted here sonny along with Ashley the non-climate scientist non publish non peer reviewed critic.

Why not try refuting the actual text of this topic's interview sunshine.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #3 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 1:53pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 1st, 2009 at 11:12am:
Is that the Ashley article Scrappy?  Already been refuted here sonny along with Ashley the non-climate scientist non publish non peer reviewed critic.

Why not try refuting the actual text of this topic's interview sunshine.


Slimer has already been debunked by David Karoly, a fellow Geologist,  Malcolm Walter, planetary scientist, Professor Kurt Lambeck, president of the Australian Academy of Science, Prof Ian Enting from University of Melbourne, and there are probably many more academics by now who are disgusted by the nonsense in this book.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #4 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 1:58pm
 
Then there's Professor Barry Brook, at Plimer’s own University of Adelaide:  

Quote:
"Ian Plimer… quotes a couple of thousand peer-reviewed scientific papers when mounting specific arguments. What Ian doesn't say is that the vast majority of these authors have considered the totality of evidence on the topic of human-induced global warming and conclude that it is real and a problem,”


Professor Matthew England, director of NSW University, talking about higher CO2 levels in prehistory:

Quote:
“Yes, this did occur at various times, for example 40 million years ago during the Eocene. But does Plimer tell his readers that at this time sea levels were 50 metres higher than today? Certainly humanity did not yet exist and importantly all of our cities, agriculture and infrastructure were millions of years from being built,”


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Re: Plimer
Reply #5 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 6:56pm
 
karoly...  puhlease...  what a wanker, propaganda puppet for the Greens AGW push.  Only Gore has less credibility.  same goes for Matthew...  how many more vested interest Alarmists you gonna quote?
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #6 - Jul 1st, 2009 at 8:50pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 1st, 2009 at 6:56pm:
karoly...  puhlease...  what a wanker, propaganda puppet for the Greens AGW push.  Only Gore has less credibility.  same goes for Matthew...  how many more vested interest Alarmists you gonna quote?


Oh you know these people do you ?   Grin

Well it seems like you include virtually every national academy in the world in your list of 'alarmists' and also organisations such as the Australian Bureau of Meteorology.

I should just leave you to wallow in your ignorance.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #7 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 5:16pm
 
Seen and heard Karoly many times thanks.
Only someone living under a rock wouldn't have hear or seen Gore over the decades.  only the completely ignorant wouldn't have rolled their eyes watching An Inconvenient Truth...

Quote:
Plimer knows a thing or two about taking on powerful interests. He is not a man to be dismissed easily; his impressive academic and publishing record attests to that.
In addition to his day job at the University of Adelaide's school of environmental sciences, he is emeritus professor of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne and the author of seven books and 120 scholarly papers. He is Australia's best-known academic geologist and certainly one of the most outspoken.


Hey Bozo, you must have one impressive CV to dismiss Plimer as if he was an idiot.
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #8 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 8:51am
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 5:16pm:
Seen and heard Karoly many times thanks.
Only someone living under a rock wouldn't have hear or seen Gore over the decades.  only the completely ignorant wouldn't have rolled their eyes watching An Inconvenient Truth...

Quote:
Plimer knows a thing or two about taking on powerful interests. He is not a man to be dismissed easily; his impressive academic and publishing record attests to that.
In addition to his day job at the University of Adelaide's school of environmental sciences, he is emeritus professor of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne and the author of seven books and 120 scholarly papers. He is Australia's best-known academic geologist and certainly one of the most outspoken.


Hey Bozo, you must have one impressive CV to dismiss Plimer as if he was an idiot.


I never said he was an idiot.  Grin
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Re: Plimer
Reply #9 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 8:53am
 
wow thanks btw... I won a bet on your answer Bozo.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin  

I never said you said he WAS an idiot.  Oh dear...  Roll Eyes
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Re: Plimer
Reply #10 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 9:04am
 
All this grandstanding about his qualifications is irrelevant anyway.

I'm more concerned about the hundreds of errors and ignorance of basic science that appear in his book. Let's talk about his arguments.

I don't care if he's the King of Nepal. It's what he says that should be central to the argument.

I have a dentist who is totally brilliant, but I wouldn't see him about a broken leg.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #11 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 9:06am
 
You've been grandstanding about people and their qualifications since day one Bozo.

But you are right about people believing in something that has at its core an incorrect premise.  When are you going to admit it eh?
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Re: Plimer
Reply #12 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 10:53am
 
Hey Grendel? What's your source for the CO2 levels in the Cambrian anyway?

It wouldn't be your mate Plimer, because he thinks that atmospheric CO2 levels vary by up to 45% at any given time.

I thought it was getting a bit windy with all those tonnes of CO2 rushing in and out of the atmosphere  Grin
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Re: Plimer
Reply #13 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:02am
 
No I don't think it was Plimer...  several sources gave variations from 4500-7000ppm  argue it on the appropriate topic.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #14 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 11:06am
 
I'm sure Plimer would know. No No - I'm talking about Plimer so it's on topic.

So how many studies support this figure, and what is it based on?  

Plimer's the man.  You can look up Plimer. He's got lots of references. (pity they're mostly irrelevant)

What's the point of a reference book if you don't use it?
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