Australian Politics Forum - Islamic courts

freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #15 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:47pm

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:24pm:

jordan484 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:19pm:

What are 'Islamic Courts?' What is their jurisdiction?

No jurisdiction here............yet. But that will change if the muslims get their way, so be vigilant.

well they have jurisdiction in countries that are run by shariah law. but from my understand there is no country that practices shariah law correctly.

I also believe many muslims reject shariah law because they believe it has been corrupted by man- that it is man's interpretation of god's word, instead of god's word itself.

Wouldn't that just mean they reject parts of Shariah law, or the conservative brand of it which is popular today? Otherwise they would reject their whole religion. But they would still want the law to be dictated by religious interpretation rather than democracy or some secular method, right? Does it just mean they are 'Koran only' Muslims?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #16 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:56pm

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Abu, just tell me in non Islamic terms.......are the Criminal/Civil Courts in for example, Qatar (being an Islamic Country) 'Islamic Courts'

Qatar is not an Islamic state. So that's not a good example. It's not all that difficult to comprehend though. The courts are run by Shari'ah (Islamic) law, Christians and Jews can have civil courts.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #17 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:59pm

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But they would still want the law to be dictated by religious interpretation rather than democracy or some secular method, right? Does it just mean they are 'Koran only' Muslims?

There are of course some Muslims, who don't believe in Shari'ah, however their definition as Muslims is quite doubtful, as they'd clearly be denying things that are obviously part of Islam. However, they aren't 'many' as Gaybriel has stated. Perhaps they're just over-represented in the West, and even then they're a tiny minority.

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Aussie

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #18 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:05pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:56pm:

Quote:

Abu, just tell me in non Islamic terms.......are the Criminal/Civil Courts in for example, Qatar (being an Islamic Country) 'Islamic Courts'

Qatar is not an Islamic state. So that's not a good example. It's not all that difficult to comprehend though. The courts are run by Shari'ah (Islamic) law, Christians and Jews can have civil courts.

Aaaaagah, bugger me dead, Indonesia then. There is no need to mention Christians and Jews.

In an Indonesian Court, one like that which tried Corby, is there a basic premise that the word of a Muslim will have same added weight per se, over a non Muslim?

Give a straight answer fer buggers sake.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Islamic courts Reply #19 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:06pm Quote: There are of course some Muslims, who don't believe in Shari'ah Does Shariah mean based in Hadith, or can it be derived from the Koran only?
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #20 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:12pm

There are 4 sources of Shari'ah: Qur'an, Hadith, Ijma' (Consensus) and Qiyas (analogical deduction)

The so called "Qur'an-only movements" are extremely small in number, and have very little following in the Western world, and pretty much negligable following in the Muslim world. Most have been started by Christian converts, probably trying to corrupt Islam, the most notable was an Egyptian Copytic Christian in the USA. Who made his own hybrid Islamo-Christian religion. I think he had more Christian followers than Muslims Grin

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Gaybriel

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #21 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:16pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:59pm:

Quote:

But they would still want the law to be dictated by religious interpretation rather than democracy or some secular method, right? Does it just mean they are 'Koran only' Muslims?

There are of course some Muslims, who don't believe in Shari'ah, however their definition as Muslims is quite doubtful, as they'd clearly be denying things that are obviously part of Islam. However, they aren't 'many' as Gaybriel has stated. Perhaps they're just over-represented in the West, and even then they're a tiny minority.

oop- didn't mean to misrepresent!! change 'many' to 'some'!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #22 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:16pm

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Aaaaagah, bugger me dead, Indonesia then. There is no need to mention Christians and Jews.

Indonesia is also not an Islamic state. There's been no functioning Islamic state since 1924, when the last one was abolished at the close of WWI.

Indonesian law is based on Dutch (Netherlands) law, not Islamic law.

I know it's hard for you to comprehend, because you just have this mentality, if the country's mostly Muslim population, it has to be an Islamic country, and it's court is therefore an Islamic court, but it's simply not the case. Islamic Shari'ah law was abolished in Indonesia a few centuries ago and replaced with Dutch law. Like it or lump it, understand it or misunderstand it, that's the cold hard reality.

Quote:

Give a straight answer fer buggers sake.

Give a straight question, and you'll get a straight answer. Indonesia and Qatar are not Islamic states with Islamic law systems. If you like, I can pretend they are, if that'll make you happy?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39225 Gender:	Re: Islamic courts Reply #23 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:19pm Is there an Islamic Country anywhere on this Planet? Duh.....no there is not, not since the 1920's. Bugger me dead, FD.....why raise a non issue?
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Islamic courts Reply #24 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:20pm Just pretend they are, or make one up, or tell them which country is......THEN you can answer his question, which you could have done in the first place without all the unnecessary tangents.
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Aussie

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #25 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:25pm

jordan484 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:20pm:

Just pretend they are, or make one up, or tell them which country is......THEN you can answer his question, which you could have done in the first place without all the unnecessary tangents.

No point, as it is a non issue. It all came down to me being the Lawyer trying to get to basic facts agreed before I exploded.

It is all a non event as it seems there is no such functioning thaing as an Islamic Court, these days.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #26 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:31pm

I'm interested in what existed in the past, and what Muslims want to recreate. It makes no sense to judge a person's choice to become Muslim only by the standard of Muslims living in non-Muslim states. Islam is a government more than a religion.

Perhaps Abu could answer Sprint's question by referring to the most recent appropriate Caliphate.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #27 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:35pm

Nope, not really interested in answering any more of sprint's questions. As he's indicated he wants to demand questions be answered, and doesn't accept any kind of counter-question that seeks clarification or rhetorical questions in reply. In other words he doesn't believe in debate, but simple yes/no answers (even though his questions aren't even yes/no questions).

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Islamic courts Reply #28 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:36pm Just as well your answers are never yes/no answers.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39225 Gender:	Re: Islamic courts Reply #29 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:38pm Jordan....if you look up there ^^^^^^^, you will see how wrong you are.
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