Australian Politics Forum - Link fines to income. What do you reckon?

merou

Full Member

Offline

Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #15 - Sep 14^th, 2008 at 3:52pm

I think it is a rediculous idea. People dont get large incomes just because their boss thinks they are nice people. A large income is usually running alongside a huge responsibility or very long hours away from their families.

Maybe for repeat offences, but I don't that it is fair.

Bob is a dole bludging junkie who is doing 80kph in a 60 zone because his dealer is about to run out, so we will just fine him $150, then go on to spend thousands to recover the money when he doesn't pay it, But because John has worked hard all his life to build a business that is now earning him $150,000 pa and supporting 8 employees families, he can have a $700 fine for exactly the same offence.
Where does it end, charge him more for groceries, fuel, clothes?? He already pays a much higher tax rate.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2008 at 4:00pm by merou »

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.

IP Logged

locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #16 - Sep 14^th, 2008 at 4:24pm Merou, nothing you said has not already been addressed. But fair enough, you disagree. Whether someone skips their on their fine is irrelevant. The cost of recovery should be added to the fine, that can be recovered by money, community service or jail.
Back to top	I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives. IP Logged

merou

Full Member

Offline

Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #17 - Sep 14^th, 2008 at 5:55pm

locutius wrote on Sep 14^th, 2008 at 4:24pm:

Merou, nothing you said has not already been addressed. But fair enough, you disagree.

Whether someone skips their on their fine is irrelevant. The cost of recovery should be added to the fine, that can be recovered by money, community service or jail.

Jail cost taxpayers more money again, community service is just crap, most of the projects they do are not even worth doing.

It is just not a fair proposal.

Back to top

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.

IP Logged

merou

Full Member

Offline

Less Tolerance, More Shooting

Posts: 193
Pilbara WA
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #18 - Sep 14^th, 2008 at 6:04pm

easel wrote on Sep 14^th, 2008 at 10:07am:

I got arrested and charged once and the cops write down what you earn and your expenses/bills on the charge sheet and that gets presented to the court, maybe for the magistrate to take in to account of the sort of money you have available.

That doesn't sound like the process for a minor traffic infringement?

Back to top

Shoot the scum and let God sort em out.

IP Logged

easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #19 - Sep 14^th, 2008 at 7:50pm Mugshot, fingerprints, king hit (twice), food and water withheld, 9 hours in a cell, paddy wagon thrashed over gutters, train tracks, sudden stoppages at speed etc etc. All for 0.06. And then the cops whinge about people hating them when they 'help us'.
Back to top	I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO. IP Logged

JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5198 Gender:	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #20 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 11:47pm lol i've never seen a country more wussified over drink driving than australia we consume the fourth largest amount of beer per capita on the planet yet we all turn into giant pussies whenever somebody gets behind the wheel with a beer
Back to top	IP Logged

locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #21 - Sep 19^th, 2008 at 8:19am Love my beer, but can't put it much better than the ads. If you drink drive your a bloody idiot. If you kill someone while drink driving, should be 2nd degree murder.
Back to top	I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives. IP Logged

Acid Monkey

Gold Member

Offline

Goth Father

Posts: 1064
EU
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #22 - Sep 19^th, 2008 at 11:00am

2nd degree murder? That's a bit steep, don't you think. That would indicate a level of premeditation to kill someone while drinking. Wouldn't manslaughter be more appropriate which is what I believe should be the default charge for all deaths caused by DUI? Mostly people are charged with the lesser offence of "reckless driving causing death" which is a BS charge.

Back to top

IP Logged

locutius

Gold Member

Offline

You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #23 - Sep 19^th, 2008 at 2:26pm

Acid, It may be a bit steep. I thought 1st degree murder was for premeditated. And I believe that 2nd degree is now manslaughter. I was showing my age from my days of watching Homicide.

Maybe again a sliding scale. But someone who has sat there pouring piss down their throat then jumps in their car and kills someone, especially a child will get no sympathetic ear from me. Stupid and selfish. I can promise that if it was my child jail would be the safest place for them. And unfortunately I suspect that I am no so enlightened a creature that I would ever forgive or be satisfied.

I agree completely with you that Quote:

"reckless driving causing death" which is a BS charge.

Back to top

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

IP Logged

Acid Monkey

Gold Member

Offline

Goth Father

Posts: 1064
EU
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #24 - Sep 19^th, 2008 at 4:58pm

I'm not a law expert but my understanding of the grading of the murder charge is as follows:

1st degree murder - Premeditated murder. This means the person planned to do it. If the killer bought a gun just for the crime, for instance, or if it is murder for hire.
2nd degree murder - Intentional murder, but not premeditated. A man comes home and finds his wife in bed with another man and in a fit of rage he kills them. This is considered a less serious crime because it was not planned.
3rd degree murder (or manslaughter)- Accidental murder, negligance. This is like getting in an accident with your car where someone gets killed. You didn't mean to kill anyone, it was only through negligence.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47569
At my desk.

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #25 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 5:41pm

A large income is usually running alongside a huge responsibility or very long hours away from their families.

So what? Does that give them the right to speed and put people's lives at risk and recieve a what is from their perspective a meaningless penalty? Should the rich get away with crimes merely because they are rich and must therefor contribute more to society? Don't forget that defaulting on these fines can lead to jail time.

Bob is a dole bludging junkie who is doing 80kph in a 60 zone because his dealer is about to run out, so we will just fine him $150, then go on to spend thousands to recover the money when he doesn't pay it, But because John has worked hard all his life to build a business that is now earning him $150,000 pa and supporting 8 employees families, he can have a $700 fine for exactly the same offence.
Where does it end, charge him more for groceries, fuel, clothes?? He already pays a much higher tax rate.

Your argument seems to consist or introducing red herrings. Not all poor people are dole bludging junkies. If you don't like the dole, vote against it. If you don't like junkies, vote for tougher drug penalties. If you don't like people skipping on fines, vote for greater penalties for that too. But don't try to punish all poor people so you can get at junkies indirectly.

Back to top

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

IP Logged

liko New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #26 - Oct 4^th, 2008 at 1:31pm There will be enough fines when this "climate change con" gets under way to last several life times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBSViLUDOkE
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47569 At my desk.	Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon? Reply #27 - Oct 4^th, 2008 at 2:04pm There's no need to spam the forum with it liko. Once is more than sufficient.
Back to top	I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT! IP Logged

ex-member DonaldTrump

Gold Member

Offline

Oh mere mortals, open
your eyes!

Posts: 1995
Overseas
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #28 - Oct 4^th, 2008 at 4:21pm

locutius wrote on Aug 26^th, 2008 at 2:09pm:

A $100,000 Speeding Fine??

HELSINKI (Reuters) - A senior executive of the world's largest mobile phone maker Nokia is appealing a record $103,600 fine for speeding because his income has dropped, Finnish media and officials said Monday.

Millionaire and Harley Davidson enthusiast Anssi Vanjoki was caught racing his motorbike down a Helsinki street in October at 47 mph in a 31 mph zone, the newspaper Ilta-Sanomat reported.

Unlike in many other countries, Finnish traffic fines vary according to the offender's average income.

The fine was based on Vanjoki's 1999 income which was boosted by big options sales. But Vanjoki's income dropped drastically last year as Nokia's share price fell alongside other tech shares, making option sales uneconomical.

Vanjoki's fine is believed to be the largest ever traffic penalty in Finland, beating a fine of more than $71,000 handed down to Internet millionaire Jaakko Rytsola and one of $31,200 given to Vanjoki's colleague, Nokia president Pekka Ala-Pietila.

Taken from (http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200201/msg00132.html)

I say yep. All for it.

Yes. Do it.

One of the best proposals I've heard in a long time.

I can't believe they hand out the same fines with someone who earns 1,000,000 a year compared to someone who makes 30,000. It should be a set percentage taken out of their income.

Good luck making people admit to their income though.

Back to top

Quote:

Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything

&&-- G.K. Chesterton

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 37691
Gender: male

Re: Link fines to income. What do you reckon?
Reply #29 - Oct 5^th, 2008 at 1:30pm

Acid Monkey wrote on Sep 19^th, 2008 at 4:58pm:

I'm not a law expert but my understanding of the grading of the murder charge is as follows:

1st degree murder - Premeditated murder. This means the person planned to do it. If the killer bought a gun just for the crime, for instance, or if it is murder for hire.
2nd degree murder - Intentional murder, but not premeditated. A man comes home and finds his wife in bed with another man and in a fit of rage he kills them. This is considered a less serious crime because it was not planned.
3rd degree murder (or manslaughter)- Accidental murder, negligance. This is like getting in an accident with your car where someone gets killed. You didn't mean to kill anyone, it was only through negligence.

You have been watching too much TV from the USA.

Back to top

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Link fines to income.
yes 8 (80.0%) no 2 (20.0%) Total votes: 10 « Created by: DILLIGAF on: Sep 13^th, 2008 at 10:35pm »