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blasphemy (Read 12913 times)
Bobby.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #30 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 10:39am
 
Abu - the only thing I like about Sharia law is that the Muslims
are not afraid of hanging: murderers, rapists & thieves.

We give them light sentences here & they can return to do it again.

As for blasphemy - it's not fair to punish someone for their beliefs.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #31 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 10:54am
 
bobby,

Whilst I like that you appreciate certain aspects of Shari'ah law, I am disappointed that you apparently don't realise Shari'ah law is a very complex law system. It is not merely a few physical punishments as we're led to believe in the West, it is a very detailed and comprehensive law system, which covers all aspects of the human condition.

For instance, few people ever talk about land laws according to Shari'ah. Did you know for instance that if you are able to put a fence around unused land, and to utilise it (ie farm it etc) then you attain ownership over that land?

Or how about welfare laws, senior citizens were given pensions over 1400 years ago by Shari'ah law, something which only reached most Western countries in the past century.

Or that a head of state is not above the law, and must be tried like anyone else, even if in office. There was the famous case of a Jewish man who took Khaleefah Ali to court and won against him, whilst he was head of state of the entire Muslim world.

Or that a child has a right to be breastfed for the first two years of their life, if the mother is capable, something the U.N/WHO now recommend and which has shown to be extremely beneficial to an individual's lifelong health and immunity.

These kinds of things make up the vast bulk of Shari'ah law, yet the anti-Islamists are not interested in hearing about them. Instead they just take a few physical punishments out of context and promote them as the embodiment of what Shari'ah law is.

Quote:
As for blasphemy - it's not fair to punish someone for their beliefs.


Blasphemy laws do not punish people for their beliefs, they punish people for slandering and libeling other people's beliefs.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #32 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 10:57am
 
Btw fd, going to add those comparisons of laws to your wiki?

For example, something like this:

Health legislation
Islam: Child has a right to be breastfed for first two years of life (an action known to dramatically increase their lifelong health & immunity)

Australian: Child has no such right at all, the full right is given to the mother to go out and party and fill her body full of toxins and give the kid powder replacement instead.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #33 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 11:39am
 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for blasphemy - it's not fair to punish someone for their beliefs.


Blasphemy laws do not punish people for their beliefs, they punish people for slandering and libeling other people's beliefs.


Therefore if I stood outside a Mosque in Iran & said:
Quote:
I don't believe that Mohammad was a prophet

I would be killed & that is OK by you?
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #34 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 11:58am
 
Firstly Iran is not a Shari'ah implementing country, contrary to the claims.

Secondly, no I don't think you would be. You might get abused for being insensitive or hear "good for you", but that'd probably be about it.

Islam does not legislate that people can be convicted for not believing in Islam.

Would you actually feel any great need to go and do that, just out of curiousity?
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #35 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 12:25pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 27th, 2010 at 11:58am:
Firstly Iran is not a Shari'ah implementing country, contrary to the claims.

Secondly, no I don't think you would be. You might get abused for being insensitive or hear "good for you", but that'd probably be about it.

Islam does not legislate that people can be convicted for not believing in Islam.

Would you actually feel any great need to go and do that, just out of curiousity?


Rubbish - they would hang me in village square immediately.
They are barbaric people.

I would feel the need to tell them the truth.
There is no prophet because "God" doesn't exist except in peoples imaginations.
I am a scientist not a religious crank.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #36 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 1:40pm
 
Quote:
Christians themselves, who are the majority, cannot even get their laws applied in their own countries, as neither can Muslims in their own countries, so the idea that Islam is a threat as it has laws is just ludicrous, that's my whole position here.


Abu, anyone who opposes freedom is a threat to freedom. Anyone who opposes democracy is a threat to democracy. Anyone who opposes human rights is a threat to human rights. All these things are fragile, and it is your argument that is ludicrous. The fact that Christians can't impliment what you think their law should be is irrelevant. Whether you oppose these things because it is part of a law that is part of your religion, or because you are racist, homophobic, or watever, is irrelevant. The fact is that you oppose them, and no amount of wrapping it up in cotton wool or impotence will change that. People are not going to ignore these things because of your gentle reassurances that you will fail.

Quote:
Well there's a lot of people in Australia, who'd like to institute a lot of laws that are not in compliance with Australia's current legislation. I don't see too much hype about those people not being compatible with the "Australian way of life".


Again Abu, we do not criticise you merely because you want to change the law. It is what you want to change the laws to that brings criticism on you. This is little more than a series of infantile strawmen. You can address everything but the elephant in the room.

Quote:
I do believe the Islamic Shari'ah to be perfect, and under a Caliphate of course they should be applied.


So what should a Muslim do if asked to bring judgement on someone before the caliphate overthrows the government? Should a Muslim refuse to play any role in law making, law enforcement or justice until they get their own version of a perfect government? What should a Muslim do if given a choice to impliment some aspects of shariah law?

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Should they be transplanted into an Australian secular context? No, of course not. Any hype claiming Muslims are calling for this is fanciful at best.


Aren't Muslims asking for exactly this in many parts of the world - some kind of self governance under shariah law?

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Britain has been implementing "Jewish law" alongside English law for over 70 years now (no hoohah about that)


Abu, your strawmen are just getting more and more absurd. We do not reject shariah law because it has foundations in religion. We reject it because it is barbaric. If Enland started stoning people to death for adultery or chopping limbs off as punishment or condoning rape or dismantling democracy, you might have something more than a strawman, but at the moment that is all you have. There is no shortage of hoohah in the west about the Jews.

Quote:
I think you can quite clearly see there's an agenda behind all this.


Like what? Protecting freedom? Protecting democracy? Perhaps you think we made these things up just so we could bag on Muslims?

Quote:
Similar stuff to this was discussed with fd for several years running now.


Can you link to a single previous example where you answered my question about the punishment for blasphemy? It's a tad hypocritical to complain about these discussions going on for years when it takes a few years to get a straight answer from you.

Quote:
It leads nowhere


Not true. For example we recently got you to admit you support people getting stoned to death for saying the wrong thing about Muhammed.

Quote:
except to him going off and taking things wildly out of context


Can you explain where I have taken something out of context? Should we only complain about people wanting to take away our democracy, freedom and human rights the night before they succeed?

Quote:
thinking he's making some great contribution to exposing Islam or something. I'm sure that you can see why I find it tiresome.


So why do you go to such great lengths over many years to try to justify not answetring my questions in case your answers end up on the wiki? If you didn't try so hard to mislead people about Islam, there would be nothing to expose.

Quote:
Whilst I like that you appreciate certain aspects of Shari'ah law, I am disappointed that you apparently don't realise Shari'ah law is a very complex law system. It is not merely a few physical punishments as we're led to believe in the West, it is a very detailed and comprehensive law system, which covers all aspects of the human condition....These kinds of things make up the vast bulk of Shari'ah law, yet the anti-Islamists are not interested in hearing about them.


So we should appreciate the detail and ignore the bits about stoning people to death?

Quote:
Instead they just take a few physical punishments out of context


Are you suggesting that putting the barbaric parts of Islam into context will make them seem more benign?
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #37 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 4:41pm
 
freediver.
Quote:
So we should appreciate the detail and ignore the bits about stoning people to death?


That is the point isn't it?
Abu seems to be brainwashed.
He really thinks that the Koran is the word of God.
God can't be wrong so he justifies even the most barbaric & ridiculous punishments.
He is an apologist for the Koran.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #38 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 11:31am
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 27th, 2010 at 12:25pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 27th, 2010 at 11:58am:
Firstly Iran is not a Shari'ah implementing country, contrary to the claims.

Secondly, no I don't think you would be. You might get abused for being insensitive or hear "good for you", but that'd probably be about it.

Islam does not legislate that people can be convicted for not believing in Islam.

Would you actually feel any great need to go and do that, just out of curiousity?

They are barbaric people.


You've obviously never met any Persians. They are hardly barbaric people. Most urban Iranians are extremely well educated. There is a literary culture in Iran which goes way back, and all the Iranians I've met have been accomodating, hospitable and humble, gentle people.



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Re: blasphemy
Reply #39 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 8:24am
 
Yes, the educated Iranians from Tehran are generally nice cultured people. Tehran used to be called the Paris of the East. Most of them can't stand the current regime. It would be a tragedy if Iran was invaded. There is so much culture there.
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Re: blasphemy
Reply #40 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 9:13am
 
muso wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 8:24am:
Yes, the educated Iranians from Tehran are generally nice cultured people. Tehran used to be called the Paris of the East. Most of them can't stand the current regime. It would be a tragedy if Iran was invaded. There is so much culture there.


Their films are often brilliant - Tehran has been at the cutting edge of cinema for years. Some of the writers in Iran are literary giants. Iran has a lineage of poetry going back years - many of their classical Sufi poets have influenced writers such as Shakespeare.

Romeo and Juliet, for example, is based on an old Persian story.
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