Australian Politics Forum - Anorexia or obesity?

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Anorexia or obesity? Reply #60 - Dec 29^th, 2014 at 9:50pm forgiven. Namaste.
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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Anorexia or obesity? Reply #61 - Dec 29^th, 2014 at 9:54pm Do you use the calorie in/out method to stay lean Honky? What keeps you at your weight.? Presuming as an athlete you are not obese.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #62 - Dec 29^th, 2014 at 10:17pm

I have never counted calories and never will, I go almost entirely by feel.

I've been running an unofficial experiment with 20 odd years of trial and error, and what going by feel has led me to is a preference for fat and protein. That said, someone following the exact same diet as me would probably get fat. What I do works for me, but there's just too many variables for a once size fits all approach. A paleo diet is OK in theory, and is fairly similar to what I go for, but diets varied widely around the world, so "our" ancestors didn't all eat the same things, so different people are going to be suited to different things. Anytime you try to make everyone/everything conform to one golden rule, you're going to get exceptions that confound it, and that's the problem with nutritional science.

I'm convinced people must instinctively know what to eat and what not to - even dogs do - but they're overthinking it, and getting nowhere. Just look at all the nice people who claim "chocolate is good for you" - they can't possibly believe it, but they seem to think their own bodies will react differently if they know of a study that could conceivably support such a notion in a backhanded way.

Coincidentally the latest entry on a blog I follow deals with bacon - according to the "conventional wisdom" one of the worst possible foods one could eat, but one that I can't get enough of.

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/bacon-superfood-or-hipster-bullshit....

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #63 - Dec 29^th, 2014 at 11:05pm

There is one thing in common which our ancestors did not eat though unitil 10,00 years ago, refined carbs. There is also one common link to obesity wherever you go around the world, sugar. Regardless, for the rest of it you pretty much hit the nail on the head, Im glad you didnt say exercise keeps you lean, thats another myth Im going to bust tomorrow.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #64 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:44am

... wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

Fat is the preferred energy source our bodies require and the science also supports this, in any endurance event your body will only utilise carbohydrates for the first 20 minutes or so, then its on to fat afterwards,

The fact that it's the first 20 minutes then onto fat would suggest fat isn't the preferred energy source.

It's actually your muscles that the body uses as a source of energy during starvation. The body does go after the fat cells as a source of energy, but it will go after your muscles first to a certain extent. Fat cells may become a reserve energy source for the muscles, to avoid muscular atrophy.

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #65 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:49am

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

... wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

Fat is the preferred energy source our bodies require and the science also supports this, in any endurance event your body will only utilise carbohydrates for the first 20 minutes or so, then its on to fat afterwards,

The fact that it's the first 20 minutes then onto fat would suggest fat isn't the preferred energy source.

It's actually your muscles that the body uses as a source of energy during starvation. The body does go after the fat cells as a source of energy, but it will go after your muscles first to a certain extent. Fat cells may become a reserve energy source for the muscles, to avoid muscular atrophy.

incorrect. The body only cannibalises itself as a last resort. Any fat will always be used first.

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #66 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:01am

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 11:05pm:

There is one thing in common which our ancestors did not eat though unitil 10,00 years ago, refined carbs. There is also one common link to obesity wherever you go around the world, sugar. Regardless, for the rest of it you pretty much hit the nail on the head, Im glad you didnt say exercise keeps you lean, thats another myth Im going to bust tomorrow.

Absolutely. Stay away from much of the modern diet including refined carbs. Exercise only can do so much. I am as lean and muscular as I have ever been and I attribute it to intermittent fasting, a *narrow* diet, and brief yet intense exercise.

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“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #67 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:01am

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

... wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

Fat is the preferred energy source our bodies require and the science also supports this, in any endurance event your body will only utilise carbohydrates for the first 20 minutes or so, then its on to fat afterwards,

The fact that it's the first 20 minutes then onto fat would suggest fat isn't the preferred energy source.

It's actually your muscles that the body uses as a source of energy during starvation. The body does go after the fat cells as a source of energy, but it will go after your muscles first to a certain extent. Fat cells may become a reserve energy source for the muscles, to avoid muscular atrophy.

a teaspoon of BCAA will remedy that.

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #68 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:04am

ian wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:49am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

... wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

Fat is the preferred energy source our bodies require and the science also supports this, in any endurance event your body will only utilise carbohydrates for the first 20 minutes or so, then its on to fat afterwards,

The fact that it's the first 20 minutes then onto fat would suggest fat isn't the preferred energy source.

It's actually your muscles that the body uses as a source of energy during starvation. The body does go after the fat cells as a source of energy, but it will go after your muscles first to a certain extent. Fat cells may become a reserve energy source for the muscles, to avoid muscular atrophy.

incorrect. The body only cannibalises itself as a last resort. Any fat will always be used first.

what happens first during fasting is autophagy. that is desirable. the body also burns fat. again, desirable. there could be muscle loss while exercising while fasted - clearly not desirable - but as I mentioned a little BCAA will fix that.

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #69 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:05am

Try going on a starvation diet, after being overweight for many years. You will find that after a month, your body will be weaker, and you won't be able to lift as much as you could overweight. Yes, your fat cells will be much less filled. But you will find that your muscle tone, the muscle that had to carry around that extra fat/weight is much less, because your body is using the muscle as *another* source of energy, along with the less need for those muscles.

I was 60kg at 18 years of age. Eating subway, and KFC and McDonalds to increase my weight didn't put on the muscle until later exercise. The fatness in my body was just too high, and I actually look thinner at 120kg than I did at 106kg.

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #70 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:19am

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:05am:

Try going on a starvation diet, after being overweight for many years. You will find that after a month, your body will be weaker, and you won't be able to lift as much as you could overweight. Yes, your fat cells will be much less filled. But you will find that your muscle tone, the muscle that had to carry around that extra fat/weight is much less, because your body is using the muscle as *another* source of energy, along with the less need for those muscles.

I was 60kg at 18 years of age. Eating subway, and KFC and McDonalds to increase my weight didn't put on the muscle until later exercise. The fatness in my body was just too high, and I actually look thinner at 120kg than I did at 106kg.

what is a "starvation diet?"

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Anorexia or obesity? Reply #71 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:21am yes , you are correct. Heres the thing, you dont need to go on a starvation diet to sustain weight loss. In fact thats the opposite of what you should be doing to conquer obesity. You dont even need to exercise.
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ian

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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #72 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:23am

AiA wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:19am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:05am:

Try going on a starvation diet, after being overweight for many years. You will find that after a month, your body will be weaker, and you won't be able to lift as much as you could overweight. Yes, your fat cells will be much less filled. But you will find that your muscle tone, the muscle that had to carry around that extra fat/weight is much less, because your body is using the muscle as *another* source of energy, along with the less need for those muscles.

I was 60kg at 18 years of age. Eating subway, and KFC and McDonalds to increase my weight didn't put on the muscle until later exercise. The fatness in my body was just too high, and I actually look thinner at 120kg than I did at 106kg.

what is a "starvation diet?"

any diet in which the total calories burned outnumber the amount consumed.

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: Anorexia or obesity? Reply #73 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:25am are you using "starvation diet" to mean "water fasting?"
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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: Anorexia or obesity? Reply #74 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 1:26am it is important to trigger autophagy, not starvation.
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