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Anorexia or obesity? (Read 46874 times)
Neferti
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #120 - Dec 31st, 2014 at 3:42pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 30th, 2014 at 7:46pm:
Neferti wrote on Dec 30th, 2014 at 4:13pm:
I blame SMOKING.  You rarely saw a really FAT person when smoking cigarettes was OK. Once they banned that, people took up EATING to satisfy their cravings.

Some people still smoke (23% of the population) but 40% are obese. Should we give out FREE ciggies to the OBESE lot to stop them eating?


Bingo! Correctomundo.

But! You've persisted with a couple of urban myths here.

When I stopped a nearly 2-pack a day smoking habit 20 years ago I did not start eating more ... and I did not start tasting my food any better. And nor did I compensate myself with chocolates and ice cream.

Smoking among professional models has been part of their tools for staying slim. There are 2000 different chemicals packed into each cigarette, and no doubt some of these burn up fat in the blood stream.

One of my bosses was tall but round with an enormous stomach, and he told me this happened when he gave up smoking. Same thing happened to me.

You smoke - you're on-track to die of cancer.

Stop smoking - and your a candidate to die from heart disease.


As I have stated elsewhere, I did NOT gain any weight after giving up smoking. Some people do though.

You die because that is what happens to ALL of us, eventually. There is nothing you can do about it .... except to enjoy life as much as you can BEFORE the end of the road.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #121 - Dec 31st, 2014 at 4:50pm
 
Neferti wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 3:42pm:
[quote

As I have stated elsewhere, I did NOT gain any weight after giving up smoking. Some people do though.

You die because that is what happens to ALL of us, eventually. There is nothing you can do about it .... except to enjoy life as much as you can BEFORE the end of the road.


Yes, but ...

The battle is not with Death, but with trying to keep as fit as possible in the months and years leading up to your eventual demise. Trying not to be an invalid and a cripple in your later years should hold much more fear for you than death itself.

I have three neighbours close by who all have horrendous joint problems.

With one of them, her quality-of-life was reduced each time she went into hospital to 'correct' a problem.

Her hip-replacement left her limping as never before, with arthritic pains still being felt.

Her knee operation was a total disaster, resulted in her needing a 'walking frame' to get about - even in her own home.

An operation on a pinched nerve in her neck did absolutely nothing to help her with numbness in her fingers as it was supposed to.

Same with the other neighbours - operations galore for absolutely no discernible benefit.

Conclusion: If you've got joint problems - don't rush to have a surgeon go digging around in you. Wait until the pain really does become just too much to bear.

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cods
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #122 - Dec 31st, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 4:50pm:
Neferti wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 3:42pm:
[quote

As I have stated elsewhere, I did NOT gain any weight after giving up smoking. Some people do though.

You die because that is what happens to ALL of us, eventually. There is nothing you can do about it .... except to enjoy life as much as you can BEFORE the end of the road.


Yes, but ...

The battle is not with Death, but with trying to keep as fit as possible in the months and years leading up to your eventual demise. Trying not to be an invalid and a cripple in your later years should hold much more fear for you than death itself.

I have three neighbours close by who all have horrendous joint problems.

With one of them, her quality-of-life was reduced each time she went into hospital to 'correct' a problem.

Her hip-replacement left her limping as never before, with arthritic pains still being felt.

Her knee operation was a total disaster, resulted in her needing a 'walking frame' to get about - even in her own home.

An operation on a pinched nerve in her neck did absolutely nothing to help her with numbness in her fingers as it was supposed to.

Same with the other neighbours - operations galore for absolutely no discernible benefit.

Conclusion: If you've got joint problems - don't rush to have a surgeon go digging around in you. Wait until the pain really does become just too much to bear.




herb I am a bit of a bionic women metal in the right ankle and now the right hip...and I am almost pain free.. I did to all the physio...which is painful but my god it works..if this lady didnt do that and some dont as you have to make the effort  then of course she would never walk correctly...I was a cripple before the hip was done.. sitting standing nothing worked it was all pain...I would never wish I hadnt had it done...

its up to the person herb dont care what you say...its the same with being over weight....you can only help yourself....my dad almost lost a leg to smoking...he did live his last years in a lot of pain and he smoked till he died.. it was his choice.
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Black Orchid
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #123 - Dec 31st, 2014 at 5:38pm
 
Re cancer I think you either get it or you don't.

My Dad gave up smoking more than 40 years before he died.  It was a metastatic growth in the brain that took him out, but it had started in the lung.

Whereas my MIL died from throat cancer and never smoked a cigarette a day in her life.

It's just Russian roulette.

Weight can be controlled, it just takes a little willpower, but definitely gets harder around middle age.  By that time who cares?
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #124 - Dec 31st, 2014 at 7:19pm
 
Black Orchid wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 5:38pm:
Re cancer I think you either get it or you don't.

My Dad gave up smoking more than 40 years before he died.  It was a metastatic growth in the brain that took him out, but it had started in the lung.

Whereas my MIL died from throat cancer and never smoked a cigarette a day in her life.

It's just Russian roulette.
'gjkiiiiii"FV
b


Absolutely correct.

It's almost entirely at the dictates of your genes. I was a chain-smoker most of my adult life.

My brother smoked only very moderately all his life - sometimes not at all, and stopped 10 years before he died of cancer of the gums.

The Professor of Oncology at the RPA in Sydney told him the cancer was caused by stimulation of the gums from only a very few beers at the club each week. The alcohol triggered the development of cancer. It had nothing to do with anything else.

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The_Barnacle
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #125 - Jan 1st, 2015 at 12:35pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 7:19pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 5:38pm:
Re cancer I think you either get it or you don't.

My Dad gave up smoking more than 40 years before he died.  It was a metastatic growth in the brain that took him out, but it had started in the lung.

Whereas my MIL died from throat cancer and never smoked a cigarette a day in her life.

It's just Russian roulette.
'gjkiiiiii"FV
b


Absolutely correct.

It's almost entirely at the dictates of your genes.



Absolutely incorrect
Environmental factors do have a large effect on your chances of getting cancer.
You can give anecdotal evidence until the cows come home. The fact is that it you smoke ,if you are obese or if you breathe in asbestos fibres you will dramatically INCREASE your chances of getting cancer.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #126 - Jan 1st, 2015 at 12:38pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 1st, 2015 at 12:35pm:
Absolutely incorrect

Environmental factors do have a large effect on your chances of getting cancer.

You can give anecdotal evidence until the cows come home. The fact is that it you smoke ,if you are obese or if you breathe in asbestos fibres you will dramatically INCREASE your chances of getting cancer.


Correct!

But ONLY if you have the genes that make you vulnerable to environmental factors.

Mesothelioma can be left out of this. It's entirely a different phenomenon.

Case in point: Japan's population once had the highest incidence of smoking in the entire world ... but the lowest incidence of cancer.

The Hunza people live to a ripe old age, and their secret? Smoke like there's no tomorrow and don't worry about any thing.


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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #127 - Jan 1st, 2015 at 1:39pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 3:34pm:
ian wrote on Dec 30th, 2014 at 10:07am:
it has its benefits but is not a one size fits all. Athletes cant do it without affecting performance and its dangerous for the obese. Its a way of maintaining weight but not a very good or healthy one. The Nazis had good success with it though. Any semi starvation diet is unhealthy. why on earth would anyone adopt a diet which starves the body of nutrients? Despite this, depriving the body of calories for many people will result in the body conserving calories which will hinder those attempting to lose weight.


I'm obese. And although if I was active during a fast, it would be dangerous, the fasting has done me a lot of good. As I said earlier, if I was exercising whilst starving, I can pass out. But if I was not doing much, the fasting is fine.

One year, I didn't eat a thing for almost 2 days. Nothing but water. When I was noticed as having missed meals, I was forced to eat a sandwich (that I just about inhaled), and that was my break-fast. I went back to eating normally, and I noticed that my skin was hanging loose. I must have lost a lot of weight inside one week of normal eating and the previous 2 days of starving myself for food. For the record, I did the extended fasting to protest some woman's comments about me being fat. But I was 90kgs at the time.

Funny thing I heard this year was the Biggest Loser trainer (Steve Willis/Commando) claiming that he could lose 5kg within a week. *I* couldn't lose 5kg in a week, even if I had an intensive workout. And I have plenty of weight to lose.


Fighters do it all the time for their weigh in. 

Quote:
Barao (32-2, 1 NC), who also had a rocky weight cut ahead of UFC 173, claimed that he regularly cuts 10 kilos, or 22 pounds, for his fights, and that he was on course to make weight prior to the incident.


http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/8/30/6088683/renan-barao-defends-weight-cutting-...

Barao is a bantamweight, which is something like 60kg. 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #128 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 12:26am
 
You couldn't lose 5kg in one week, even if you did an intensive training and strict diet. For that to be possible, you have to be obese like myself. But you really need to put in the effort and discipline to lose 5kg in 7 days. 5/7ths of a kilogram per day is not likely, no matter who you are.
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AiA
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #129 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 1:11am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 7:19pm:
It's almost entirely at the dictates of your genes.


If that were true then cancer rates would have be steady over the last century and not risen.


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Lord Herbert
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #130 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:12am
 
AiA wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 1:11am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 7:19pm:
It's almost entirely at the dictates of your genes.


If that were true then cancer rates would have be steady over the last century and not risen.


Cancer is the product only of a failing immune system. When your immune system begins to deteriorate with age ... that's when the cancer cells begin to win the battles.

Over the past century the average age of death has increased enormously ~ taking a much higher percentage of the population into the years when the immune system is not as effective as it once was ... with the result that the incidence of cancer has trended up exponentially over the past century.

I did absolutely everything during my lifetime that leads to cancer.

Worked in the unhealthy environment of the manufacturing industries.

Smoked 2-pack a day.

Did rotating shifts for decades.

Drank to oblivion for 12 solid years.

Lived alone.

Felt stressed all my life.

Took psychiatric medication for most of my adult life.

etc.

These are known indicators that lead towards the likelihood of cancer ... and yet I've outlived my entire family, including uncles and aunties by more than 10 full years.

Reason? Genetics. A radically different set of genetics than all those who have died. An Export Quality set of immune anti-whatevers.

10 years ago I sat in my GP's office where we made preparations for my imminent demise. In his own words: "You have a big target on your back". I was then scheduled for routine checkups for various kinds of cancer. After two years we abandoned this.

I don't diet and I don't do any exercise ~ and apart from a paunch I'm as healthy as a scrub bull. At 72 this year I can still swing from the chandeliers.

And it's all about ... genetics.




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cods
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #131 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:35am
 
Black Orchid wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 5:38pm:
Re cancer I think you either get it or you don't.

My Dad gave up smoking more than 40 years before he died.  It was a metastatic growth in the brain that took him out, but it had started in the lung.

Whereas my MIL died from throat cancer and never smoked a cigarette a day in her life.

It's just Russian roulette.

Weight can be controlled, it just takes a little willpower, but definitely gets harder around middle age.  By that time who cares?



I agree my dad started smoking at 14 was still smoking when he died at 89.. drank for the better part of his life, suffered gout badly almost lost a leg....coughed his heart up every day...was a crabby bad tempered man all his life.....but just fell asleep in the end...not that I would wish lung cancer on anyone....but it does make me wonder why some and not others..
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #132 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:53am
 
cods wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:35am:
I agree my dad started smoking at 14 was still smoking when he died at 89.. drank for the better part of his life, suffered gout badly almost lost a leg....coughed his heart up every day...was a crabby bad tempered man all his life.....but just fell asleep in the end...not that I would wish lung cancer on anyone....but it does make me wonder why some and not others..



Wonder no more, fair maiden.

Genetics is responsible for the quality and the effectiveness of your immune system.

It's that simple.

My neighbour's son did his motor mechanic's apprenticeship 40 years ago during which time he spent a combined total of many hours grinding and shaping asbestos brake pads with his head shrouded in a fine dust of this lethal powder.

Today at 60 he is one of the fittest people around. Not a sign of sickness of any sort.

Genetics.

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cods
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #133 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:59am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:53am:
cods wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:35am:
I agree my dad started smoking at 14 was still smoking when he died at 89.. drank for the better part of his life, suffered gout badly almost lost a leg....coughed his heart up every day...was a crabby bad tempered man all his life.....but just fell asleep in the end...not that I would wish lung cancer on anyone....but it does make me wonder why some and not others..



Wonder no more, fair maiden.

Genetics is responsible for the quality and the effectiveness of your immune system.

It's that simple.

My neighbour's son did his motor mechanic's apprenticeship 40 years ago during which time he spent a combined total of many hours grinding and shaping asbestos brake pads with his head shrouded in a fine dust of this lethal powder.

Today at 60 he is one of the fittest people around. Not a sign of sickness of any sort.

Genetics.


  yes I am sure they play a big part... but it cant all be down to that... our lifestyle and its getting worse....has got to be a large part not in all cancers of course.....

its our immune system I guess in the long run....why do some get MS??...one of the reasons I would have gladly paid the $7 doctors visit fee was in the hope it wouldnt be long before we had the answers to these diseases.....

.if what you say is true.. then some can abuse their bodies and get away with it.....I dont think thats quite true either..
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AiA
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #134 - Jan 2nd, 2015 at 6:05am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 5:12am:
AiA wrote on Jan 2nd, 2015 at 1:11am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 31st, 2014 at 7:19pm:
It's almost entirely at the dictates of your genes.


If that were true then cancer rates would have be steady over the last century and not risen.


Cancer is the product only of a failing immune system. When your immune system begins to deteriorate with age ... that's when the cancer cells begin to win the battles.

Over the past century the average age of death has increased enormously ~ taking a much higher percentage of the population into the years when the immune system is not as effective as it once was ... with the result that the incidence of cancer has trended up exponentially over the past century.

I did absolutely everything during my lifetime that leads to cancer.

Worked in the unhealthy environment of the manufacturing industries.

Smoked 2-pack a day.

Did rotating shifts for decades.

Drank to oblivion for 12 solid years.

Lived alone.

Felt stressed all my life.

Took psychiatric medication for most of my adult life.

etc.

These are known indicators that lead towards the likelihood of cancer ... and yet I've outlived my entire family, including uncles and aunties by more than 10 full years.

Reason? Genetics. A radically different set of genetics than all those who have died. An Export Quality set of immune anti-whatevers.

10 years ago I sat in my GP's office where we made preparations for my imminent demise. In his own words: "You have a big target on your back". I was then scheduled for routine checkups for various kinds of cancer. After two years we abandoned this.

I don't diet and I don't do any exercise ~ and apart from a paunch I'm as healthy as a scrub bull. At 72 this year I can still swing from the chandeliers.

And it's all about ... genetics.






Even with increased life expectancy factored in, cancer rates are significantly higher than 100 years ago.

Cancer among the young is way up as well.  Look at all the young women today who are diagnosed with breast cancer yet it didn't touch their great-great grandmothers. 
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