polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:07am:


Sure, but there are better ways to ask the question.

Quote:


You previously suggested we should not try to find out if they are forced to wear it. Are you doubting yourself now?

Quote:


Can you suggest a more effective way? For example, would it become more effective if you "asked them" instead of "just asking them"?

Quote:


Quote:


Forgive me. I keep forgetting how complicated it is to ask a Muslim a question.

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am:


Social, family pressure and expectation "forces" me to wear pants. Are you and FD planning on rescuing me? Or at the very least accosting me in the street and asking me intrusive and disturbing questions about the oppression I face?


Quote:


I can't even make sense of that. What possible [non] point could you be making?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 1:51pm:


If the hijab is a matter of 'not drawing attention to hidden ornaments' (Koran, 24:30) then Muslim men should also cover their hair. Why does female hair have such powerful erotic effect on Muslim men but not on Muslim women? If it is good for the goose it should be good for the gander.  Or is there some significant value differentiation in Islam between men and women that we need to know about?    Like superior/inferior doctrines that do not hold outside Islam but Muslims stick to, even outside Muslim countries,  to demonstrate their doctrinaire alertness from and even opposition to the cultures around them?
(Of course there is, and that's at the heart of the matter. )


And if it's no biggie whether Muslimas wear a hijab or not, why wear it in countries where it is not the custom if not to demonstrate that it IS a biggie and a good shorthand signifier of hostility to the surrounding culture.

The hijab in the West is exactly the same as refusing to cover one's hair when entering a mosque in Muslim countries.
The only difference is that the West tolerates its own repudiation and Islam and Muslims don't.

As with everything else, Muslims exploit Western tolerance without ever, in any way, reciprocating it. And that's because they do not think for a moment that they are dealing with equals but with inferiors.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 11:02am:



of course not.

FD's modus operandi is to pretend others have said things they never said, then ask you to prove him right.

Frank wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:


What can I say? I agree, muslim countries are dicks towards non-muslims. Even some muslim communities in the west are arrogant and entitled - and they shouldn't be. But so what? I still don't get how that justifies demonizing individual women for wearing a piece of clothing.

newsflash FD, in most cases "just asking" a genuinely abused woman if they are being abused is not going to elicit a truthful answer. It can also be extremely damaging for the woman. Thats just domestic abuse management 101.

If you suspect abuse, you absolutely should do something about it. Key word here *IF* you suspect abuse. And no, the mere presence of a hijab with no other evidence is *NOT* a good justification to be suspicious. I've asked you repeatedly if you actually think it is, but you tap-dance away from this question every single time. I wonder why? You've spent this entire thread mocking me for not wanting to "just ask her" - while steadfastly refusing to confirm if thats what you would actually do.

But if you have good reasons to suspect abuse, then yes, you should do something about it. What that is, is not easy to say - probably something along the lines of reassuring her you are there if she needs me or wants to talk, and/or seeking professional advice. But what it absolutely should *NOT* involve is blundering up to her and start asking intrusive and downright creepy questions about the nature of the suspected abuse.

The only thing close to a useful thing you said in this whole discussion is that there are "better ways to ask the question". I asked you to elaborate, but I didn't get an answer. If you did, we might have a more useful discussion.