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Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) (Read 86880 times)
thegreatdivide
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Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Feb 27th, 2022 at 4:56pm
 
A timely discussion of how the economy works in China, the reasons for the West's demonization of China, and the status of MMT in China.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5jYXB0aXZhdGUuZm0vbWFjcm9uY2h...

Examining China with an MMT Lens with Yan Liang

"Macro and Cheese explores the progressive movement through the lens of Modern Monetary Theory, with hot and irreverent political takes, spotlights in activism, and the razor sharp musings of Real Progressives Founder and host Steve Grumbine".

"This week’s episode is another chapter in our mission to educate ourselves about modern China. Yan Liang specializes in Modern Money Theory, international trade and finance, and economic development, with a special regional focus on China. She is also the wife of friend-of-the-podcast Eric Tymoigne".

"Steve and Yan discuss the truth and misconceptions about the ongoing competition between the US and China. It has created winners and losers, with the working class in both countries affected by globalization. Trade war is class war."

(Spurts of aggressive punk music cease after c.1 mim.)

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Jim Lahey
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 4:58pm
 
`The Great Firewall (GFW; simplified Chinese: 防火长城; traditional Chinese: 防火長城; pinyin: Fánghuǒ Chángchéng) is the combination of legislative actions and technologies enforced by the People's Republic of China to regulate the Internet domestically. Its role in internet censorship in China is to block access to selected foreign websites and to slow down cross-border internet traffic.[1] The effect includes: limiting access to foreign information sources, blocking foreign internet tools (e.g. Google Search,[2] Facebook,[3] Twitter,[4] Wikipedia,[5][6] and others) and mobile apps, and requiring foreign companies to adapt to domestic regulations.[7][8]

Besides censorship, the GFW has also influenced the development of China's internal internet economy by nurturing domestic companies[9] and reducing the effectiveness of products from foreign internet companies.[10] The techniques deployed by the Chinese government to maintain control of the Great Firewall can include modifying search results for terms, such as they did following Ai Weiwei’s arrest, and petitioning global conglomerates to remove content, as happened when they petitioned Apple to remove the Quartz business news publication’s app from its Chinese App Store after reporting on the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests.[11][12]

The Great Firewall was formerly operated by the SIIO, as part of the Golden Shield Project. Since 2013, the firewall is technically operated by the Cyberspace Administration of China (CAC), which is the entity in charge of translating the Chinese Communist Party's doctrine and policy into technical specifications.[13]

As mentioned in the "one country, two systems" principle, China's special administrative regions (SARs) such as Hong Kong and Macau are not affected by the firewall, as SARs have their own governmental and legal systems and therefore enjoy a higher degree of autonomy. Nevertheless, the U.S. State Department has reported that the central government authorities have closely monitored Internet use in these regions,[14] and Hong Kong's National Security Law has been used to block websites documenting anti-government protests.[15]

The term Great Firewall of China is a combination of the word firewall with the Great Wall of China, and was first used by Australian Sinologist Geremie Barmé in 1997.[16][17]
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #2 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 4:58pm
 
Hello Shill.

Do your censors let you read that?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #3 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 5:38pm
 
The Sum Of The Freeze Is Equal To The Removal Of The Balls Of The Russian Interloper.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #4 - Feb 28th, 2022 at 10:24pm
 
The founder of Real Progressives,  who hosted the pod-cast in the OP, is one Steve Grumbine, whose journey from Conservative Reagan disciple to MMT convert is informative, especially his own experience of "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps", as per Conservative dogma:

https://realprogressives.org/our-founder-steven-d-grumbine/

"In 2009, despite his many years within the company, Steve was laid off due to the global financial crisis. Steve, with all his advanced professional education and experience, found himself unemployed for 18 months, and no amount of bootstrap pulling could lift him out".

"He experienced firsthand the struggles of no longer having secure employment with benefits, while at the same time dealing with a costly divorce, massive child support, and lapsing ability to make mortgage payments
".
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Jasin
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #5 - Feb 28th, 2022 at 10:26pm
 
Black is the colour of Money.
The Black Market is the oldest in history.
Takes a Black Man to run an Economy for a billion little Yellow people. Cheesy
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #6 - Mar 1st, 2022 at 8:12am
 
Jasin wrote on Feb 28th, 2022 at 10:26pm:
Black is the colour of Money.
The Black Market is the oldest in history.


Money is  the oldest delusion in the world; it is always created out of nothing, yet people still think it's a commodity. 

Quote:
Takes a Black Man to run an Economy for a billion little Yellow people. Cheesy


Geopolitical forces manipulated by self-interest  have always pulled the purse strings.

But the money delusion's days are numbered. 
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Frank
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #7 - Mar 1st, 2022 at 4:00pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 1st, 2022 at 8:12am:
Jasin wrote on Feb 28th, 2022 at 10:26pm:
Black is the colour of Money.
The Black Market is the oldest in history.


Money is  the oldest delusion in the world; it is always created out of nothing, yet people still think it's a commodity. 

Quote:
Takes a Black Man to run an Economy for a billion little Yellow people. Cheesy


Geopolitical forces manipulated by self-interest  have always pulled the purse strings.

But the money delusion's days are numbered. 


Complete garbaga, again.

Money is a symbol of value. You could carry physical objects with you to exchange them for other physical objects but it would be cumbersome in the extreme. It is easier and better to have a unit of measure for the value of various objects and services and exchange that measure (money).

By your idiotic reckoning other measures - metre, hectare, ton, etc  - are delusions because they are also ultimately random measures of real thing, length,  adea, weight etc
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2022 at 5:02pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2022 at 4:00pm:
Complete garbaga, again.

Money is a symbol of value.


Correct, but yet, crucially, money is created out of nothing, so exactly what 'value' (in the quantitative sense)  does it have?

Quote:
You could carry physical objects with you to exchange them for other physical objects but it would be cumbersome in the extreme. It is easier and better to have a unit of measure for the value of various objects and services and exchange that measure (money).


Of course, where did I say otherwise?  But you are now straying into the question of "what determines 'value'"?

Quote:
By your idiotic reckoning other measures - metre, hectare, ton, etc  - are delusions because they are also ultimately random measures of real thing, length,  adea, weight etc


They are not random measures,  because they are defined, whereas any attempt to define the 'value' of money is impossible because such value would need to be be defined in terms of itself, being created out of thin air whereas hectares, tons, metres are not created, they are defined. And neither are commodities eg, gold,  created out of thin air. But the 'value' of gold measured in money, - or vice versa - is not fixed

Interestingly, anthropologists agree money is primarily a means to establish  state sovereignty; its use as a medium of exchange is incidental to the state's issuance of money to establish state sovereignty over its own citizens. 

For example, the Roman empire initiated  the  first use of money in Britain;  the much simpler economy of the illiterate natives had no need of money because the tribes governed themselves according to defined roles for everyone, not requiring state governance.   


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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2022 at 5:18pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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The Heartless Felon
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2022 at 5:13pm
 
Until the middle of the 19th century, privately owned banks in Great Britain and Ireland were free to issue their own banknotes. Paper currency issued by a wide range of provincial and town banking companies in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland circulated freely as a means of payment. - Wiki
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Jasin
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2022 at 6:44pm
 
GD is right, but so is Frank.

Digital money is now created out of nothing.
...and when Cyber War starts - everyone's money that is in that 'invisible' world, will indeed, dissapear... like a cashless society that it is.

Far cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway,
than it is online.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #11 - Mar 2nd, 2022 at 5:49pm
 
Interesting post from Australia's leading MMT economist prof. Bill  Mitchell.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=49327

The IMF shows us that the central bank monetary financing taboo has no substance

Note: Mitchell observes that the IMF seems to acknowledge  the 'taboo' of the CB creating money as such, but the final two sentences reveal the conventional paranoia: 

"Which means that all the hype that surrounds the ‘taboo’ about the private sector fearing inflation if the government acts in this way is based on nothing substantive.

"But that doesn’t stop the IMF falling back into lockstep with the fiction (that CB money creation will cause inflation)  when they conclude that “departures from central bank independence can be very dangerous … [and have] … devastating effects on economies and livelihoods”.


So fear will force endless austerity on the population, austerity which negatively affects the poor the most, as governments attempt to pay back covid debt and rein in inflation.
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« Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2022 at 5:55pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:17pm
 
Note a pernicious thesis  of classical economics:

unlimited desires in the face of limited resources.

But socialism suggests satisfying basic needs is possible, ie choices re allocation of resources can be made.  Unemployment and homelessness are government choices, not some natural economic law.

Mainstream economics considers money to be a scarce commodity, it is not; whereas  some resources may be in short supply at certain times, money need never be in short supply for currency-issuing governments. 

The mainstream quantity theory of money is false, more money in the economy will cause inflation only if resource supply is constrained.

More money in the economy will create economic  growth, not inflation, if available resources and productive capacity can absorb the extra spending.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #13 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:56pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:17pm:
Note a pernicious thesis  of classical economics:

unlimited desires in the face of limited resources.

But socialism suggests satisfying basic needs is possible, ie choices re allocation of resources can be made.  Unemployment and homelessness are government choices, not some natural economic law.

Mainstream economics considers money to be a scarce commodity, it is not; whereas  some resources may be in short supply at certain times, money need never be in short supply for currency-issuing governments. 

The mainstream quantity theory of money is false, more money in the economy will cause inflation only if resource supply is constrained.

More money in the economy will create economic  growth, not inflation, if available resources and productive capacity can absorb the extra spending.



Dear God you're full of nothing but googled shyte!

MMT was incorporated by Keynesian economics.

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« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2022 at 2:07pm by Lisa Jones »  

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #14 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 2:05pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2022 at 4:00pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 1st, 2022 at 8:12am:
Jasin wrote on Feb 28th, 2022 at 10:26pm:
Black is the colour of Money.
The Black Market is the oldest in history.


Money is  the oldest delusion in the world; it is always created out of nothing, yet people still think it's a commodity. 

Quote:
Takes a Black Man to run an Economy for a billion little Yellow people. Cheesy


Geopolitical forces manipulated by self-interest  have always pulled the purse strings.

But the money delusion's days are numbered. 


Complete garbaga, again.

Money is a symbol of value. You could carry physical objects with you to exchange them for other physical objects but it would be cumbersome in the extreme. It is easier and better to have a unit of measure for the value of various objects and services and exchange that measure (money).

By your idiotic reckoning other measures - metre, hectare, ton, etc  - are delusions because they are also ultimately random measures of real thing, length,  adea, weight etc


It's Bwian googling his way into irrelevance.

I knew I'd seen his googled stuff before.


"The post-Keynesian economist Thomas Palley said that MMT is largely a restatement of elementary Keynesian economics, but prone to "over-simplistic analysis" and understating the risks of its policy implications."


It's just simplistic BS. So of course it blends in well with the multi troll Notsogreat who has spent weeks on here copying and pasting slabs of an online website re MMT.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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