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be heard on 18c and freedom of speech (Read 72706 times)
Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #15 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.


Thanks Aussie. I guess that settles it. No doubt all this legal stuff is very complicated for you, and I do not really expect you to read your evidence before posting it. However, surely you must appreciate your right to express your view on this important issue, no matter how wrong it is?


It sure does.  You lied in the most scurrilous manner.  You have form for that in the cause of promoting a falsehood.....how many did Mo kill in that alleged massacre, for example.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #16 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:26pm
 
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:17pm:
Quote:
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18D
Exemptions
                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:
                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or
                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or
                     (c)  in making or publishing:
                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or
                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.


Bolt should have been let off then because of 18D yet wasn't....  gee I wonder why?  As long as we have politically biased people and ideologues in our institutions we will never have fair systems.


He was done because he lied on relevant issues.....a lie can hardly ne made in good faith, can it.

(We've done this to death here before.   Bolt came undone because of falsehoods and for no other reason.)
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Grendel
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #17 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:28pm
 
Spurious complaints were made against Hanson years ago and each one was dismissed....

18D should be a get out of gaol free card for everyone.  Even delusional Muslim Jihadists.

The Racial Discrimination Act is a Nanny State farce and so is the Australian Human Rights Commission and its Commissioners.

All should be abolished.
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Grendel
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #18 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:26pm:
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:17pm:
Quote:
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18D
Exemptions
                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:
                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or
                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or
                     (c)  in making or publishing:
                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or
                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.


Bolt should have been let off then because of 18D yet wasn't....  gee I wonder why?  As long as we have politically biased people and ideologues in our institutions we will never have fair systems.


He was done because he lied on relevant issues.....a lie can hardly ne made in good faith, can it.

(We've done this to death here before.   Bolt came undone because of falsehoods and for no other reason.)

Bolt was done for not being a PC Leftwing Progressive...
18D as it stands should be a get out of gaol free card for anyone, unless you are a bonafide mindreader that can actually prove otherwise.
You are such a fool... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #19 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:36pm
 
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:26pm:
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:17pm:
Quote:
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18D
Exemptions
                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:
                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or
                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or
                     (c)  in making or publishing:
                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or
                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.


Bolt should have been let off then because of 18D yet wasn't....  gee I wonder why?  As long as we have politically biased people and ideologues in our institutions we will never have fair systems.


He was done because he lied on relevant issues.....a lie can hardly ne made in good faith, can it.

(We've done this to death here before.   Bolt came undone because of falsehoods and for no other reason.)

Bolt was done for not being a PC Leftwing Progressive...
18D as it stands should be a get out of gaol free card for anyone, unless you are a bonafide mindreader that can actually prove otherwise.
You are such a fool... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


So early in the discussion, and you have already resorted to your usual ad hom abuse.

Link.

Quote:
Today Federal Court Justice Mordecai Bromberg found Bolt had breached the act because the articles were not written in good faith and contained factual errors.

He said the articles would have offended a reasonable member of the Aboriginal community.


See, he lied, so lost the capacity to use the defences in 18D.


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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #20 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:20pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.


Thanks Aussie. I guess that settles it. No doubt all this legal stuff is very complicated for you, and I do not really expect you to read your evidence before posting it. However, surely you must appreciate your right to express your view on this important issue, no matter how wrong it is?


It sure does.  You lied in the most scurrilous manner.  You have form for that in the cause of promoting a falsehood.....how many did Mo kill in that alleged massacre, for example.


Read the rest of the sentence Aussie. What form did the criminal contempt take? Or are you seriously suggesting that because the name of the crime was 'criminal contempt' rather than 'denying the holocaust' that he was therefor not jailed for denying the holocaust?
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #21 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:20pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.


Thanks Aussie. I guess that settles it. No doubt all this legal stuff is very complicated for you, and I do not really expect you to read your evidence before posting it. However, surely you must appreciate your right to express your view on this important issue, no matter how wrong it is?


It sure does.  You lied in the most scurrilous manner.  You have form for that in the cause of promoting a falsehood.....how many did Mo kill in that alleged massacre, for example.


Read the rest of the sentence Aussie. What form did the criminal contempt take? Or are you seriously suggesting that because the name of the crime was 'criminal contempt' rather than 'denying the holocaust' that he was therefor not jailed for denying the holocaust?


Yes I am.  He was ordered by a competent Court not to do stuff (irrelevant to his eventual fate what that stuff was) and he defied the Order of the Court.  He was imprisoned for three months for that contempt......defiance of the Order of a competent Court.

That is why he was imprisoned.  Simple fact, and you can be as obviously disingenuous as you like, freediver, those facts will not change.

You lied to pursue your own little pathetic crusade you say you have mounted for others and not yourself, one you floated here, (even with a sticky no-one else can use here to ensure prominence) to push a barrow of complete bullshit.




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Grendel
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #22 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:02pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:36pm:
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:26pm:
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:17pm:
Quote:
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18D
Exemptions
                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:
                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or
                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or
                     (c)  in making or publishing:
                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or
                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.


Bolt should have been let off then because of 18D yet wasn't....  gee I wonder why?  As long as we have politically biased people and ideologues in our institutions we will never have fair systems.


He was done because he lied on relevant issues.....a lie can hardly ne made in good faith, can it.

(We've done this to death here before.   Bolt came undone because of falsehoods and for no other reason.)

Bolt was done for not being a PC Leftwing Progressive...
18D as it stands should be a get out of gaol free card for anyone, unless you are a bonafide mindreader that can actually prove otherwise.
You are such a fool... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


So early in the discussion, and you have already resorted to your usual ad hom abuse.

Link.

Quote:
Today Federal Court Justice Mordecai Bromberg found Bolt had breached the act because the articles were not written in good faith and contained factual errors.

He said the articles would have offended a reasonable member of the Aboriginal community.


See, he lied, so lost the capacity to use the defences in 18D.



You keep missing the point....  as usual...  deliberately it would seem. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Stop wasting my time...   Roll Eyes
My point is clear and stands... 
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

The judge's decision proves 2 points I made...
1/ Bias in the judiciary.
2/ That 18c needs to be abolished or amended.

You are such a loser when it comes to factual refutation aren't you.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #23 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:11pm
 
I really can't be bothered with that crap.  The Judge was biased was he?  Gee, did Bolt manage to establish that anywhere?  Does his 'conviction' stand or has he successfully appealed?

Perhaps you can have a go on this.  What is that you want to say that 18C/D prevents you from saying?
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #24 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:11pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:26pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:20pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.


Thanks Aussie. I guess that settles it. No doubt all this legal stuff is very complicated for you, and I do not really expect you to read your evidence before posting it. However, surely you must appreciate your right to express your view on this important issue, no matter how wrong it is?


It sure does.  You lied in the most scurrilous manner.  You have form for that in the cause of promoting a falsehood.....how many did Mo kill in that alleged massacre, for example.


Read the rest of the sentence Aussie. What form did the criminal contempt take? Or are you seriously suggesting that because the name of the crime was 'criminal contempt' rather than 'denying the holocaust' that he was therefor not jailed for denying the holocaust?


Yes I am.  He was ordered by a competent Court not to do stuff (irrelevant to his eventual fate what that stuff was) and he defied the Order of the Court.  He was imprisoned for three months for that contempt......defiance of the Order of a competent Court.

That is why he was imprisoned.  Simple fact, and you can be as obviously disingenuous as you like, freediver, those facts will not change.

You lied to pursue your own little pathetic crusade you say you have mounted for others and not yourself, one you floated here, (even with a sticky no-one else can use here to ensure prominence) to push a barrow of complete bullshit.


So let me get this straight. The man committed contempt of court by denying the holocaust and was jailed for it, but that is different to being jailed for denying the holocaust? Is this really what you are saying Aussie?
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Grendel
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #25 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:13pm
 
Oh and BTW after the decision the counsel for the plaintiffs conceded Bolt's writings did not incite “racial vilification or racial hatred”.

So 18C is flawed and the case should never have been brought...  18D also would exclude such a travesty.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #26 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:22pm
 
Quote:
So let me get this straight. The man committed contempt of court by denying the holocaust and was jailed for it,


Read the Judgement I gave you the link to.  He committed a contempt of Court by defying an Order of a competent Court.  When will that get through to you?

Quote:
....but that is different to being jailed for denying the holocaust?


Indeed it is.

Quote:
Is this really what you are saying Aussie?


People with a brain and not a political agenda will already have noticed that is exactly what I am saying.

Would you mind removing this from Relationships where you have stickied it.)  It has (a) nothing to do with that Sub-Forum and (b) I don't wish to host it.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #27 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:23pm
 
Grendel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:13pm:
Oh and BTW after the decision the counsel for the plaintiffs conceded Bolt's writings [highlight]did not incite “racial vilification or racial hatred”[/highlight].

So 18C is flawed and the case should never have been brought...  18D also would exclude such a travesty.


You'll excuse me if I don't accept that blind.  Link please.
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Aussie
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #28 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:27pm
 
Oh.....I see now.  FD has stickied this Thread over the entire Forum!!!!!!!!!  Sorry, FD.  I'm not playing anymore.

It is a political topic having nothing to do with any of the Sub-Forums.

No more from me.
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freediver
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Re: be heard on 18c and freedom of speech
Reply #29 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:44pm
 
Aussie wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:22pm:
Quote:
So let me get this straight. The man committed contempt of court by denying the holocaust and was jailed for it,


Read the Judgement I gave you the link to. 


I did Aussie. I even quoted it back to you and suggested you read it yourself (but reassured you that I would understand if you could not, given all the complicated legal stuff in there). Here is is again for you - you're own evidence remember:

Pausing there, it follows from the above that there is no room for dispute that Dr Toben has spent time in prison in Australia for criminal contempt constituted by the publication of material found to have racially vilified the Jewish people and which conveyed imputations including that there was serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred.

Would it be fair to describe this as I did above - that the criminal contempt for which he was jailed took the form of holocaust denial?

Quote:
People with a brain and not a political agenda will already have noticed that is exactly what I am saying.


I understand it. I just don't believe you are actually saying it. You have said some strange things in the past, but this is plumbing new depths. Normally you are furiously backpedaling by this stage.

Quote:
Oh.....I see now.  FD has stickied this Thread over the entire Forum!!!!!!!!!  Sorry, FD.  I'm not playing anymore.


You have until December 19 to make yourself heard Aussie. I will take it down after that. I am sure you agree this is important. If I can find a way to control which sub-forums this appears on, I will let you know. In the meantime, thank you for your patience and understanding.
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