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One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power (Read 6008 times)
lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #45 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:20pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:00pm:
You do know that The USA and many other countries do not re process? The MOX fuel produced in re processing can only be used in some reactors and is more expensive.



And that was by presidential decree, not for safety reasons. Jimmy done it. Wink

Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:00pm:
Also for a material that will be around for a few hundred thousand years how big an impact would be re processing it the once or twice which is the current limit. That is re processing may get you an extre ten years? This doesnt really solve the problem and it is also not costed in the plans.



If you only lose about 3% each time it is used your maths is so far out as to be funny. And each time it is processed the worst of the radiation is reduced.
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #46 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 8:39pm:
And your evidence does not even say that renewables "only covers 80-90%".



Ah, you expect renewables to always be available on demand with firming? Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 8:39pm:
You are so confused you post evidence that backs up my argument, and even whn it is pointed out to you, you don't realise.



You haven't been able to back your argument that renewables are the cheapest. Cool

For that you need something that says that. And wiki, pointedly doesn't for LFCOE. Roll Eyes
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #47 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:28pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:10pm:
All the plans are for some sort of mix even with nuclear. Your logic hear would mean that nothing is viable


No it means renewables are not viable.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:10pm:
80 - 90% is really good I doubt what ever is used will meet that standard.


It certainly won't be renewables. Batteries and Hydro lasting four minutes on the east coast grid? Grin Grin Grin Grin

Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:10pm:
If we can reduce the dirty fuels by 90% I would think it would be a good result.


is that for everything? Or do you want electric tractors, trucks etc added to the grid?
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Grappler Racist Filth
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #48 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:31am
 
Funny that - in my WW IV series books I put forward the concept of solar powered aircraft carriers.... heeeey - now they're working on the idea!
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #49 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:22am
 
lee wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:12pm:
BTW - I just installed Claude, just for you.


Me: levelised Full Cost Of Electricity - are renewables cheaper than nuclear

Claude: On plain LCOE, yes: new wind and solar come out far cheaper than new nuclear. Once you add the cost of making the grid reliable, the gap narrows, and it depends on the assumptions.

Headline numbers (Lazard’s 2026 report, US, unsubsidised)

Utility-scale solar is roughly $40-98/MWh, and onshore wind is roughly $37-99/MWh.
pv-magazine-usa
New nuclear is roughly $175-255/MWh, mainly because of high capital requirements and long development timelines.
pv-magazine-usa
Lazard’s nuclear figure is based on public cost estimates for Vogtle Units 3 and 4, which were notoriously over budget. A smoother build programme would likely come in lower, and Lazard’s own commentary suggests costs would fall as more plants are built.

There is that pesky Subsidy again.

Me: LCOE is not the levelised full cost of electricity

C: You’re right. I treated your question as plain LCOE, and the figures I gave were only generation costs. Levelised full cost of electricity (LFCOE, also called levelised full system cost) adds the system-level costs LCOE leaves out. Let me check the current evidence on that.

Once you count full system costs, firmed renewables still come out cheaper than new nuclear in most of the studies I found. The gap is smaller than the plain LCOE figures suggest, and the studies disagree about method.

Now the CSIRO next Gen report 25-26, says by 2030 we need 33GWh of battery storage. The east coast of Australia uses about 655GWh per day. That's about 3 minutes.

It then says we need 12GWh of hydro, 7 already existing and hoping Snowy2 finishes in time. Add that to the batteries and we get to 4 minutes. Wink


There you go Lee. Once more you post evidence supporting my position. When your own previous evidence supported 80 to 90% of our electricity come from "weather dependent" renewables as the cheapest option, you still concluded we should go 100% nuclear, even though it did not cite a single circumstance where nuclear was the cheapest. Obvious, given that nuclear is the most expensive and getting worse. Your only apparent reasoning being that getting our electricity from more than one source is too complicated for you to understand.

Is that the sort of logic we should expect from One Nation and LNP voters?
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Grappler Racist Filth
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #50 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:17pm
 
I see no replacement/renewal costs that will offer comparison over the lifespan of the energy creator..... nuclear notoriously runs for over three times longer .... which means over lifespan the cost reduces to at least a third.

There's also that 'assumption' word again..

I think we need a more independent source than that now ageing CSIRO report.... those figures were designer built around a pre-approved approach, guess what - to suit Capital City's 'narrative' and has some serious gaps.

Now this is sort of the 'right wing' - the business approach:-

"There are clear ways to ensure that nuclear power is cost-effective:

        Standardised designs: Instead of expensive, first-of-a-kind projects, Australia could opt for reactors that have already been successfully built and operated.
        Sequencing reactor construction: Building the same reactor design multiple times in a row lowers costs through efficiency and economies of scale.
        Pre-approved designs: Instead of starting from scratch, Australia could license designs that have already passed strict international safety approvals.

The problem isn’t nuclear itself, but how nuclear projects are managed. If done properly, nuclear power plants provide a stable, long-term investment that delivers clean electricity for generations."


https://www.nuclearaustralia.org.au/questions-and-answers-on-cost-and-bans/
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:25pm by Grappler Racist Filth »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #51 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:46pm
 
Grappler,
Quote:
The problem isn’t nuclear itself, but how nuclear projects are managed.
If done properly, nuclear power plants provide a stable,
long-term investment that delivers clean electricity for generations."



The main problem with nuclear power stations is that they can become targets in war
creating a melt down catastrophe.

I don't know how we can overcome that?   Undecided
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #52 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 2:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:22am:
There you go Lee. Once more you post evidence supporting my position.


Ah yes. truncating what I said again.freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:22am:
When your own previous evidence supported 80 to 90% of our electricity come from "weather dependent" renewables as the cheapest option, you still concluded we should go 100% nuclear, even though it did not cite a single circumstance where nuclear was the cheapest.



You didn't read the bit about the CSIRO which Claude quoted, I explained exactly what was in the NextGen 25-26 report.

lee wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:12pm:
Now the CSIRO next Gen report 25-26, says by 2030 we need 33GWh of battery storage. The east coast of Australia uses about 655GWh per day. That's about 3 minutes.

It then says we need 12GWh of hydro, 7 already existing and hoping Snowy2 finishes in time. Add that to the batteries and we get to 4 minutes.


So what Claude said was also not the leveilised full Cost of Electricity.

BTW- I was wrong about the time it is about 1.6 hours, which is still not long.

The new report, according to Claude also says that -

"The extra firming. The ISP says its full reliability check found more firming was needed than the draft assumed, and that gas was assumed as the firming solution. The summary doesn’t show what that added capacity cost, or whether it is separate from the 17 GW. It also says other options, such as demand flexibility, could be cheaper."

So the LFCOE shows more expense, including overbuilding. NextGen doesn't cover how much is required, therefore it is not in the calculation.
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #53 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 3:42pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:46pm:
Grappler,
Quote:
The problem isn’t nuclear itself, but how nuclear projects are managed.
If done properly, nuclear power plants provide a stable,
long-term investment that delivers clean electricity for generations."



The main problem with nuclear power stations is that they can become targets in war
creating a melt down catastrophe.

I don't know how we can overcome that?   Undecided


So are the wind farms and solar farms, Bobby - targets and easy to hit... especially when you consider that imported goods such as panels and generators in towers can and do contain 'kill switches' that can be triggered by any passing or stationary satellite... plunging an entire nation into darkness and powerlessness at the drop of an electronic switch.

That's why I support and advocate for Australian home grown industries - with OUR software geniuses at work like beavers... and that includes drones and military aircraft, BTW... we must be very careful who our allies are and who are our suppliers.

Islamic Britain and chickenshit Europe may NOT be our best friends down the track... and China where we get pretty much all of our wind and solar stuff from - holds the switches...  Japan remains a cypher.... ah so - on yo' si'e, Mr Tlump!  But if China is reduced to something near its former technological weakness........ anything could happen.. and we are undermined with Fifth Columns.

Hello, Australia!  Hello darkness my old friend...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #54 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 5:27pm
 
BTW - Claude also says -

C: Overbuild isn’t an input.

Me: overbuild isn't an input? Then why do we need it?

C: “Not an input” was poor wording. I meant that the modellers don’t type in an overbuild ratio; the optimiser picks the capacity mix that meets demand at least cost.

So overbuild is not specified, it depends on the modellers assumptions.
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Bobby.
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #55 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 5:33pm
 
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 3:42pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 1:46pm:
Grappler,
Quote:
The problem isn’t nuclear itself, but how nuclear projects are managed.
If done properly, nuclear power plants provide a stable,
long-term investment that delivers clean electricity for generations."



The main problem with nuclear power stations is that they can become targets in war
creating a melt down catastrophe.

I don't know how we can overcome that?   Undecided


So are the wind farms and solar farms, Bobby - targets and easy to hit... especially when you consider that imported goods such as panels and generators in towers can and do contain 'kill switches' that can be triggered by any passing or stationary satellite... plunging an entire nation into darkness and powerlessness at the drop of an electronic switch.

That's why I support and advocate for Australian home grown industries - with OUR software geniuses at work like beavers... and that includes drones and military aircraft, BTW... we must be very careful who our allies are and who are our suppliers.

Islamic Britain and chickenshit Europe may NOT be our best friends down the track... and China where we get pretty much all of our wind and solar stuff from - holds the switches...  Japan remains a cypher.... ah so - on yo' si'e, Mr Tlump!  But if China is reduced to something near its former technological weakness........ anything could happen.. and we are undermined with Fifth Columns.

Hello, Australia!  Hello darkness my old friend...



Still not as bad as a meltdown.
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #56 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:43pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:20pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:00pm:
You do know that The USA and many other countries do not re process? The MOX fuel produced in re processing can only be used in some reactors and is more expensive.



And that was by presidential decree, not for safety reasons. Jimmy done it. Wink

Dnarever wrote on Oct 10th, 2026 at 9:00pm:
Also for a material that will be around for a few hundred thousand years how big an impact would be re processing it the once or twice which is the current limit. That is re processing may get you an extre ten years? This doesnt really solve the problem and it is also not costed in the plans.



If you only lose about 3% each time it is used your maths is so far out as to be funny. And each time it is processed the worst of the radiation is reduced.


Quote:
If you only lose about 3% each time it is used your maths is so far out as to be funny.


It isn't my math it is how it is done in practice - Some Fuel rods are re processed once and others twice before going into long term storage. 1 is the limit for MOX fuel. In theory it can be unlimited but that requires a different type of reactor to be built. Like so often with nuclear it may be a good idea one day just not today.
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:49pm by Dnarever »  
 
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #57 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:51pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:43pm:
It isn't my math it is how it is done in practice - Fuel rods are re processed once or twice before going into long term storage.



That is not scientifically justified. So if we take it loses 4% of retained power, each time it is processed, that would make it 128 times before it lost half its power.
So " re processing it the once or twice which is the current limit." is NOT the limit. It is what is done,

From AI: Spent nuclear fuel can be reprocessed multiple times to recover usable materials, but the exact number of times depends on the technology used and regulatory policies. Currently, in the U.S., reprocessing is not permitted, while some countries like France actively recycle spent fuel.

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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #58 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:02pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:51pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:43pm:
It isn't my math it is how it is done in practice - Fuel rods are re processed once or twice before going into long term storage.



That is not scientifically justified. So if we take it loses 4% of retained power, each time it is processed,
that would make it
128 times before it lost half its power.

So " re processing it the once or twice which is the current limit." is NOT the limit. It is what is done,

From AI: Spent nuclear fuel can be reprocessed multiple times to recover usable materials, but the exact number of times depends on the technology used and regulatory policies. Currently, in the U.S., reprocessing is not permitted, while some countries like France actively recycle spent fuel.




Lee - go back to school.  losing 4% = 0.96 of the original.

0.96 to the power of 17 = 0.4995 =  half.

Not 128 times.


forgiven

namaste.

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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #59 - Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:03pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:51pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 11th, 2026 at 7:43pm:
It isn't my math it is how it is done in practice - Fuel rods are re processed once or twice before going into long term storage.



That is not scientifically justified. So if we take it loses 4% of retained power, each time it is processed, that would make it 128 times before it lost half its power.
So " re processing it the once or twice which is the current limit." is NOT the limit. It is what is done,

From AI: Spent nuclear fuel can be reprocessed multiple times to recover usable materials, but the exact number of times depends on the technology used and regulatory policies. Currently, in the U.S., reprocessing is not permitted, while some countries like France actively recycle spent fuel.



MOX2 fuel is in development, it should allow multiple re processing. One day maybe.
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2026 at 8:33pm by Dnarever »  
 
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