Australian Politics Forum - No Kings Protest

thegreatdivide

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #150 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am

Karnal wrote on Oct 24^th, 2025 at 8:59pm:

That's nice, Great, but you can't expect to have one solution (or one problem) for everything.

Things are complicated. Comrade Mao tried a cultural revolution, remember? In a decade's time, everybody would be capitalist roaders again.

Beware of universal solutions. Before any progress, one must destroy the imperialist within, no?

1. Not ONE solution, maybe, but:

"money is the root of all evil"

and

"it's the economy, stupid".....

2. Speaking of which (a brief history):

Marx said "workers of the world, unite"; and his 'Communist Manifesto' made him world famous - though economists and politicians ignored his ideas in his lifetime.

Lenin was the first to apply these ideas, but Russia was a mostly subsistence agriculture economy which Marx had not considered in his writings concerned with workers tied to machines and oppressed by capitalists (during the industrial revolutiion).

'Collectivization' doesn't transfer well to 'free' individuals toiling in fields to feed themselves, so farmers showed resistance to the new 'communist' state.

Mao made the same mistake in China; but the CCP is pragmatic and soon after Mao, they became "capitalist roaders", as you noted.

But 'communism' did transform both nations into manufacturing power-houses, eg, enabling Stalin to push Hitler out of Russia; and now China can out-compete the US in manufacturing (and Trump is not pleased...).

3. An economy which works for all (the MMT goal: 'Public Money: Public Good') is by it's nature "universalist", but not in the "imperialist" sense which implies domination over other nations.

I spy your (Western) 'individual freedom' ideology colouring your narrative...

...which IS on topic in this 'No Kings' thread...

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« Last Edit: Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:37am by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #151 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 1:10pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am:

Karnal wrote on Oct 24^th, 2025 at 8:59pm:

That's nice, Great, but you can't expect to have one solution (or one problem) for everything.

Things are complicated. Comrade Mao tried a cultural revolution, remember? In a decade's time, everybody would be capitalist roaders again.

Beware of universal solutions. Before any progress, one must destroy the imperialist within, no?

1. Not ONE solution, maybe, but:

"money is the root of all evil"

and

"it's the economy, stupid".....

2. Speaking of which (a brief history):

Marx said "workers of the world, unite"; and his 'Communist Manifesto' made him world famous - though economists and politicians ignored his ideas in his lifetime.

Lenin was the first to apply these ideas, but Russia was a mostly subsistence agriculture economy which Marx had not considered in his writings concerned with workers tied to machines and oppressed by capitalists (during the industrial revolutiion).

'Collectivization' doesn't transfer well to 'free' individuals toiling in fields to feed themselves, so farmers showed resistance to the new 'communist' state.

Mao made the same mistake in China; but the CCP is pragmatic and soon after Mao, they became "capitalist roaders", as you noted.

But 'communism' did transform both nations into manufacturing power-houses, eg, enabling Stalin to push Hitler out of Russia; and now China can out-compete the US in manufacturing (and Trump is not pleased...).

3. An economy which works for all (the MMT goal: 'Public Money: Public Good') is by it's nature "universalist", but not in the "imperialist" sense which implies domination over other nations.

I spy your (Western) 'individual freedom' ideology colouring your narrative...

...which IS on topic in this 'No Kings' thread...

Stalin prevailed against Germany becacuse of the Anglo-American support the Soviet Union received.

China is successful now because it lied and cheated its way into the WTO. If it had been kept out of the WTO it wouldn't be where it is today: still lying, cheating, coercing, stealing.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Karnal

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #152 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 1:59pm

Frank's no fan of the Chows, Great. He's on record saying they should be carpetbombed too.

He's never liked their inscrutable nature, you see. And wipe that smile off your face, he always tells them.

The abacus, he says, have you ever heard of a more ridiculous invention? They always conveniently come up with the wrong change.

Don't get him started on Chinese food. He always finds a big, black hair in it somewhere, and there's always a fight at the restaurant.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #153 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:13pm

Karnal wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 1:59pm:

Frank's no fan of the Chows, Great. He's on record saying they should be carpetbombed too.

He's never liked their inscrutable nature, you see. And wipe that smile off your face, he always tells them.

The abacus, he says, have you ever heard of a more ridiculous invention? They always conveniently come up with the wrong change.

Don't get him started on Chinese food. He always finds a big, black hair in it somewhere, and there's always a fight at the restaurant.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19497 Gender:	Re: No Kings Protest Reply #154 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:21pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am: "money is the root of all evil" Poor TGD, can't even get a simple quote right. So much for competence in anything. "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil".
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 146719 Gender:	Re: No Kings Protest Reply #155 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:39pm lee wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:21pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am: "money is the root of all evil" Poor TGD, can't even get a simple quote right. So much for competence in anything. "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil" (1 Timothy 6:10).
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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3793 Gender:	Re: No Kings Protest Reply #156 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:48pm
Back to top	Trump derangement syndrome Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment" Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #157 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 1:59pm:

Frank's no fan of the Chows, Great. He's on record saying they should be carpetbombed too.

He's never liked their inscrutable nature, you see. And wipe that smile off your face, he always tells them.

The abacus, he says, have you ever heard of a more ridiculous invention? They always conveniently come up with the wrong change.

Don't get him started on Chinese food. He always finds a big, black hair in it somewhere, and there's always a fight at the restaurant.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t4ZSehoKiHU/hqdefault.jpg

Most common, Greggery, it happens all the time.

So the old boy says, anyway.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 99181	Re: No Kings Protest Reply #158 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 3:00pm Leroy wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:48pm: Sustainability, innit.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #159 - Oct 25^th, 2025 at 6:50pm

Robert Morris, a former Trump campaign spiritual adviser, pleads guilty to child sex abuse

Former megachurch pastor Robert Morris, who was once a campaign spiritual adviser to President Donald Trump, pleaded guilty Thursday to sexually abusing a child.

Morris, a founding pastor of the Dallas-based Gateway megachurch — one of the country’s largest — was accused by an Oklahoma woman, Cindy Clemishire, of sexual abuse in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12 and continuing until the age of 16.

Morris, 64, pleaded guilty in Osage County District Court to five felony counts of lewd or indecent acts with a child. He was given a 10-year suspended sentence but was ordered to serve six months in the Oklahoma county’s jail.

As part of his plea deal, Morris must register as a sex offender and pay $250,000 in restitution.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #160 - Yesterday at 12:50pm

lee wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 2:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am:

"money is the root of all evil"

Poor TGD, can't even get a simple quote right. So much for competence in anything.

"the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". Roll Eyes

(google)

The full biblical phrase says, “The love of money is the root of all evil.” It's not money itself that causes harm, but rather an obsession with wealth that can lead to unethical behavior, greed, and corruption

Correct.

Money is merely a facilitator of exchange, created out of thin air.

But....

For our resident blind-Conservative ideologue lee's information:

We all 'LOVE' "our" money and (for many reasons) hate paying taxes.

[At least Trump has the 'decency' to claim he - not the taxpayer - is paying for the gold decorations in his new White House ballroom, while Musk (as CEO of DOGE) has cut food stamps for America's poor...an evil act...]

My point is the delusional mainstream narrative re "taxpayer money" is the 'root of all evil'.

3 nations to watch:

1. The US is currently without a functioning government because of the mainstream 'balanced government budget' delusion.

2. "France in crisis as latest government falls in 14 hours"..... for the same reason.

3. The governing UK Labour party vote is collapsing, leading to in-party fighting over massively increasing taxes on the wealthy, or cutting benefits for the poor.

(and Nigel Farange's vote is soaring because the public have no idea how money is created, but they like his policy to cut taxes and increase spending.....)

Not to mention the developing world where governments are being overthrown - with heavy loss of life - by angry youth without jobs and prospects.

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lee

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #161 - Yesterday at 1:23pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

Correct.

Thank you. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

We all 'LOVE' "our" money and (for many reasons) hate paying taxes.

There you go again with your distorted views on reality.

I don't mind paying tax, just so long as it is my fair share.

With MY money I am free to donate to what ever causes I like.

Your assumptions that you speak for all are revealing. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

My point is the delusional mainstream narrative re "taxpayer money" is the 'root of all evil'.

Another of your assumptions. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

1. The US is currently without a functioning government because of the mainstream 'balanced government budget' delusion.

Nope. The Democrats want to force an issue that does not have support. You are confusing that with "economics". It is not, it is Politics. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

2. "France in crisis as latest government falls in 14 hours"..... for the same reason.

Nope. It is the Government debt, something you think shouldn't lead to anything untoward.

"The massive debt behind France's political turmoil". That is left government politics.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250905-the-massive-debt-behind-france-s-...

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

3. The governing UK Labour party vote is collapsing, leading to in-party fighting over massively increasing taxes on the wealthy, or cutting benefits for the poor.

Nope. The UK Labour Government is too busy trying to back away from its Nut Zero policy which is causing widespread energy problems and moving more manufacturing offshore. Politics again.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #162 - Yesterday at 1:30pm

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 1:10pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2025 at 10:15am:

Karnal wrote on Oct 24^th, 2025 at 8:59pm:

That's nice, Great, but you can't expect to have one solution (or one problem) for everything.

Things are complicated. Comrade Mao tried a cultural revolution, remember? In a decade's time, everybody would be capitalist roaders again.

Beware of universal solutions. Before any progress, one must destroy the imperialist within, no?

1. Not ONE solution, maybe, but:

"money is the root of all evil"

and

"it's the economy, stupid".....

2. Speaking of which (a brief history):

Marx said "workers of the world, unite"; and his 'Communist Manifesto' made him world famous - though economists and politicians ignored his ideas in his lifetime.

Lenin was the first to apply these ideas, but Russia was a mostly subsistence agriculture economy which Marx had not considered in his writings concerned with workers tied to machines and oppressed by capitalists (during the industrial revolutiion).

'Collectivization' doesn't transfer well to 'free' individuals toiling in fields to feed themselves, so farmers showed resistance to the new 'communist' state.

Mao made the same mistake in China; but the CCP is pragmatic and soon after Mao, they became "capitalist roaders", as you noted.

But 'communism' did transform both nations into manufacturing power-houses, eg, enabling Stalin to push Hitler out of Russia; and now China can out-compete the US in manufacturing (and Trump is not pleased...).

3. An economy which works for all (the MMT goal: 'Public Money: Public Good') is by it's nature "universalist", but not in the "imperialist" sense which implies domination over other nations.

I spy your (Western) 'individual freedom' ideology colouring your narrative...

...which IS on topic in this 'No Kings' thread...

Stalin prevailed against Germany becacuse of the Anglo-American support the Soviet Union received.

China is successful now because it lied and cheated its way into the WTO. If it had been kept out of the WTO it wouldn't be where it is today: still lying, cheating, coercing, stealing.

Good to see Frank engaging in debate, without abuse......

Re Russia:

(google)

Was Stalin's industrialization successful?

Results. At the end of 1932, the successful and early implementation of the first five-year plan for four years and three months was announced. Summarizing its results, Stalin announced that heavy industry had fulfilled the plan by 108%.

Would Russia have achieved this level of industrialization, vital for defeating Hitler a decade later, without the Marxist - Leninist revolution?

eg;

But Soviet tank development and production was already superior to that of the Germans. A new generation of tanks had entered service, namely the T-34 and KV-1. The T-34 in particular was a major leap in tank design and came as a complete shock to the Germans when it was first encountered in July 1941. It had sloping armour - which effectively doubled its strength - and a powerful 76.2mm gun. Its reliable diesel engine gave it a good range and turn of speed, and its wide tracks could cope with mud or snow. Russian industry was already gearing up to turn it out in huge numbers.

Of course US manfacturing also assisted the Russians.

Re China:

The Westerm "lying, cheating" narrative is based on Conservative ideology re non-government intervention in "free markets".

Hence government subsidization of industry is regardless as illegitimate by these blind "free market" ideologues.

Today of course it's the US who has crippled the operation of the WTO by refusing to elect judges to its appellate court.

The WTO dispute settlement system is in crisis, following the decision of the United States to block new appointments to the Appellate Body (AB). The AB went into hibernation in December 2019, not having enough sitting members to be able to operate.

Biden of course was smart and decided 'if you can't beat them (ie, the Chinese) join them' - and instituted massive government interventions in the form of the IRA and CHIPS bills.....to the tune of $trillions of "taxpayer" funds.

Trump prefers universal tariffs.....i

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thegreatdivide

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #163 - Yesterday at 2:36pm

lee wrote Yesterday at 1:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:50pm:

Correct.

Thank you. Roll Eyes

But my subsequent remarks prove YOU - like all of us - indeed "love" money because we live in poverty - or die - without it.

Quote:

There you go again with your distorted views on reality.

I don't mind paying tax, just so long as it is my fair share.

And who determines what is your "fair share", while poverty in increasing, and inequality is soaring?

Quote:

With MY money I am free to donate to what ever causes I like.
Your assumptions that you speak for all are revealing.

Too funny: systemic poverty (beyond the control of the individual) is increasing in Oz while inequality is soaring; ofcouse I'm speaking for all: see 'Public Money: Public Good'.

Quote:

Another of your assumptions.

Not an 'assumption"; as noted above: people experiencing systemic poverty cannot and should not depend on private charity.

Quote:

TGD 1. The US is currently without a functioning government because of the mainstream 'balanced government budget' delusion.

Nope. The Democrats want to force an issue that does not have support. You are confusing that with "economics". It is not, it is Politics. Roll Eyes

"Does not have support"....wrong as usual:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/government-shutdown-blame-poll/

According to the latest survey of more than 1,300 registered voters by the respected Quinnipiac poll, it's a close call overall, with 45% blaming the Republicans and 39% pointing to the Democrats.

If you look past the partisan voters and narrow in on declared independents, the gap mushrooms with 48% holding the GOP accountable compared with 32% blaming Democrats.

The poll's gender gap is bad news for the Republicans, with women blaming them by a 15-point margin while men are 5% more likely to blame the Democrats.

"Terrible poll for Republicans"

"It's a terrible poll for Republicans," said Tim Malloy, a Quinnipiac poll analyst.
"You do wonder what's going on in the back rooms - if there are back rooms - about how to right this ship. So to some extent Trump and the party are on their heels."

Quote:

Nope. It is the Government debt, something you think shouldn't lead to anything untoward.

"The massive debt behind France's political turmoil". That is left government politics.

Poor lee - low IQ, or just crippled by blind Conservative ideology:

Government debt results either from too low taxes - because electors can't agree on "fair " taxation levels, or too high spending - again depending on the 'eye of the beholder', and who needs the spending.

So the mainstream 'balanced government budget' mythology is synomynous with a 'government debt' crisis.

Indeed government debt is irrelevant if a country remains productive with low inflation - but the US Congress, and the French and UK public, don't understand that truth.

Quote:

Nope. The UK Labour Government is too busy trying to back away from its Nut Zero policy which is causing widespread energy problems and moving more manufacturing offshore. Politics again.

"Nut Zero" ...is that yours (...clever)?.....; net zero is only a fraction of the UK government's funding challenges, same for the rest of the world's governments.

I note your ludicrous attempt to separate the economy from politics, when politicians are forced to promise lower taxes to get elected.

"It's the economy. stupid"

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lee

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Re: No Kings Protest
Reply #164 - Yesterday at 4:20pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

And who determines what is your "fair share", while poverty in increasing, and inequality is soaring?

And what do you think is my fair share based on 38k pa? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

systemic poverty (beyond the control of the individual)

And yet you acknowledged that poverty has many causes. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

ofcouse I'm speaking for all

No you are not. Not even close. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

Not an 'assumption"; as noted above: people experiencing systemic poverty cannot and should not depend on private charity.

Ah , we should all live on public charity. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

"Does not have support"....wrong as usual:

39% is not strong, therefore it has no support as a call to action. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

Government debt results either from too low taxes - because electors can't agree on "fair " taxation levels, or too high spending - again depending on the 'eye of the beholder', and who needs the spending.

Wrong again. You mistake "wants" for "needs" the spending Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

Indeed government debt is irrelevant if a country remains productive with low inflation - but the US Congress, and the French and UK public, don't understand that truth.

Ah low inflation and increased spending above the resources available. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

net zero is only a fraction of the UK government's funding challenges, same for the rest of the world's governments.

Net zero is driving energy costs. Rising energy costs don't magically drive the manufacturing bus. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

I note your ludicrous attempt to separate the economy from politics, when politicians are forced to promise lower taxes to get elected.

You mean they don't believe in honesty? That is why the world is in the shape it is. "All these promises doesn't have to cost anything", mantra. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 2:36pm:

"It's the economy. stupid"

Is what drives investment, jobs, manufacturing. It isn't compaible with rising energy costs. Roll Eyes

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