Frank wrote on Jul 7
th, 2026 at 10:49am:
waggawoody wrote on Jul 7
th, 2026 at 7:49am:
The beginning of any struggle for justice in the Middle East must be recognition of the fact that for the last 52 years Zion, that is the State of Israel, has been built with blood, mainly of the Arabs, and founded on the most horrifying forms of injustice which when applied to the Jews are rightly condemned as anti-Semitism. Let me give here give only a single example, before entering Halachic argument. During 18 years of Israeli occupation of Lebanon about 25,000 Lebanese and Palestinians lost their lives as compared with about 800 Israeli soldiers. It is a significant fact of Israeli politics that numbers of non Jews killed in Lebanon had little or no influence on Israeli decisions to leave it, even when they were members of the South Lebanese Army, allied with Israel. On the other hand, the relatively small numbers of killed Jewish soldiers were the chief factor, even in the eyes of Israeli organizations calling for withdrawal, to mobilize the Jewish public opinion and force the government to withdraw.
This doesn't address what YOU highlighted and took as took as the pertinent point in your post as Shahak's main point: that isolated pre-1780 Jewish tesxt are the direct intellectual cause of what is happening in post 1967 Israel,
totally ignoring the interveening 200 years of Jewish intellectual development and contribution to civilisation.
As for Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon: Why did it happen? Because the state of Lebanon was unable to reign in and control the non-state terrorist groups in itss territory, namely the PLO and Hezb'allah that kept attacking Israel.
The West Bank and Gaza wouldd STILL be occupied by Jordan and Egyot, respectively, if they hadn't attacked Israel in 1967 with the aim of destroying it. There would be NO Middle East war if the Muslims did not constantly wage jihad againsst Israel, if they woukd accept the UN decision of 1948 to create Israel and a Palestinian state. The jews accepted it, the Muslims chose jihad ever since.
Germany was partitioned, Vietnam, Korea, India, then Pakistan, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Cyprus, Ireland, etc, etc. And these were all actual countries, UNLIKE Palestine after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (out of which, needless to say, other countries had also been created, like Turkey, Syria, Lebanon etc).
What's the point in discussing it. You ignore all salient points and always revert to your dearly held notion of, Israel/Jews good - Arabs bad.
Like this point: 'However, a great many present-day Jews are nostalgic for that world, their lost paradise, the comfortable closed society...
A large part of the Zionist movement always wanted to restore it - and this part has gained the upper hand.'
And here I'll add more from that passage: "Many of the motives behind Israeli politics, which so bewilder the poor confused western "friends of Israel," are perfectly explicable once they are seen simply as reaction, reaction in the political sense... a forced and in many respects innovative, and therefore illusory, return to the closed society of the Jewish past.'
See what you are defending?
And whatever 'intellectual achievements' there have been by Jews in the last 200 years - the real and actual ones, and not ones that are fraudulent, like Einstein's, and others who have received Nobel prizes due to nepotism - is because of Western influence and association, not because of their Jewish-ness. Got that? It's only because of secularism, which the Jewish leadership bitterly resented and was unable to prevent that enabled certain figures in the newly 'liberated' Jewish society to set out to do those things.
Besides, if you read Prof. Shahak's response in full you'll see how the attacks on him are unfounded, and obviously come from shills.
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