Australian Politics Forum - Iran still wants to build nukes

freediver

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Iran still wants to build nukes
Jun 26^th, 2025 at 9:00am

https://apnews.com/article/israel-iran-war-nuclear-06-23-2025-63d873b977642a4098
6d1f1dee5c4b37

Quote:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Israel and Iran seemed to honor the fragile ceasefire between them for a second day Wednesday and U.S. President Donald Trump asserted that American and Iranian officials will talk next week, giving rise to cautious hope for longer-term peace.

...

Iran has insisted that it will not give up its nuclear program. In a vote underscoring the tough path ahead, its parliament agreed to fast-track a proposal that would effectively stop the country’s cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. watchdog that has monitored the program for years.

Ahead of the vote, Parliament Speaker Mohammad Bagher Qalibaf criticized the IAEA for refusing “to even pretend to condemn the attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities” that the U.S. carried out Sunday.

“For this reason, the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran will suspend cooperation with the IAEA until security of nuclear facilities is ensured, and Iran’s peaceful nuclear program will move forward at a faster pace,” Qalibaf told lawmakers.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14874 Gender:	Re: Iran still wants to build nukes Reply #1 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 9:22am Well, no surprises there. The regime is driven by a deeply held religious ideology that transcends the individual and eclipses all fear of death. Of course the Iranian regime will not abandon its nuclear program... Why would it?
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ProudKangaroo Gold Member Offline The Sandstorm is coming 🎵Doo doo doo doo🎵 Posts: 19851 Meeanjin (Brisbane)	Re: Iran still wants to build nukes Reply #2 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...
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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #3 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:58am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Do you think if we kept negotiating for a few more decades Iran would have stopped developing nukes?

Are you suggesting Trump caused Iran to spend the last few decades developing nukes?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #4 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 12:11pm

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

A deal that allowed the regime to maintain its stance on developing its nuclear arms program...

In other words, you can do it... just don't get caught.

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Bobby.

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #5 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 12:31pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:58am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Do you think if we kept negotiating for a few more decades Iran would have stopped developing nukes?

Are you suggesting Trump caused Iran to spend the last few decades developing nukes?

Iran just wanted a seat at the table with the big boys who all have nukes -
it wanted respect.

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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #6 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 12:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 12:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:58am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Do you think if we kept negotiating for a few more decades Iran would have stopped developing nukes?

Are you suggesting Trump caused Iran to spend the last few decades developing nukes?

Iran just wanted a seat at the table with the big boys who all have nukes -
it wanted respect.

It wants to kill the Jews. It does not care whether you respect it.

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5644 Gender:	Re: Iran still wants to build nukes Reply #7 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 12:35pm I continue to be amazed at how some of the wokeist tragics here are so blinded by their ideology that they fail to see what very bad idea it would be to permit Iran to develop nuclear weapons.
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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #8 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:10pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:58am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Do you think if we kept negotiating for a few more decades Iran would have stopped developing nukes?

Are you suggesting Trump caused Iran to spend the last few decades developing nukes?

No, that's not what I'm suggesting at all.

I'm saying that both the IAEA and US intelligence both assessed that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program back in 2003. What the JCPOA did was put strict, verifiable limits on Iran's nuclear activities to ensure they stayed peaceful, with the IAEA regularly confirming Iran's compliance up until Trump unilaterally pulled the US out in 2018.

What Trump's withdrawal actually did was remove the deal's enforcement and verification mechanisms, which allowed Iran to resume activities that the JCPOA had successfully capped.

So, no, Trump didn't cause Iran to spend decades developing nukes. He caused Iran to walk away from the restraints that were working.

If anything, he took a bad situation that was under control and tore up the controls. That's not the same thing as saying he caused the original weapons program. It's saying he recklessly dismantled the guardrails that were keeping it from restarting.

Given the pretext for the latest war was their uranium enrichment, I don't see why Trump should be rewarded for playing a part in cleaning up the mess he created.

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Frank

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #9 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:12pm

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:10pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:58am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Do you think if we kept negotiating for a few more decades Iran would have stopped developing nukes?

Are you suggesting Trump caused Iran to spend the last few decades developing nukes?

No, that's not what I'm suggesting at all.

I'm saying that both the IAEA and US intelligence both assessed that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program back in 2003. What the JCPOA did was put strict, verifiable limits on Iran's nuclear activities to ensure they stayed peaceful, with the IAEA regularly confirming Iran's compliance up until Trump unilaterally pulled the U.S. out in 2018.

What Trump's withdrawal actually did was remove the deal's enforcement and verification mechanisms, which allowed Iran to resume activities that the JCPOA had successfully capped.

So, no, Trump didn't cause Iran to spend decades developing nukes. He caused Iran to walk away from the restraints that were working.

If anything, he took a bad situation that was under control and tore up the controls. That's not the same thing as saying he caused the original weapons program. It's saying he recklessly dismantled the guardrails that were keeping it from restarting.

Given the pretext for the latest war was their uranium enrichment, I don't see why Trump should be rewarded for playing a part in cleaning up the mess he created.

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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #10 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:15pm

Quote:

What Trump's withdrawal actually did was remove the deal's enforcement and verification mechanisms, which allowed Iran to resume activities that the JCPOA had successfully capped.

So, no, Trump didn't cause Iran to spend decades developing nukes. He caused Iran to walk away from the restraints that were working.

Iran never complied with it's obligations. Not in 2003. Not in 2013. Not in 2023. It gave the IAEA the runaround the whole time. The IAEA was not confirming compliance on Iran's part.

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #11 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:15pm:

Quote:

What Trump's withdrawal actually did was remove the deal's enforcement and verification mechanisms, which allowed Iran to resume activities that the JCPOA had successfully capped.

So, no, Trump didn't cause Iran to spend decades developing nukes. He caused Iran to walk away from the restraints that were working.

Iran never complied with it's obligations. Not in 2003. Not in 2013. Not in 2023. It gave the IAEA the runaround the whole time. The IAEA was not confirming compliance on Iran's part.

That's not what the IAEA reports on their website.

From 2013 to 2015, Iran engaged in negotiations leading to the JCPOA and once it was signed and in effect from 2015 until 2018 when Trump scrapped it, they were in full compliance.

In May 2018, Trump unilaterally withdrew from the JCPOA and reinstated sanctions on Iran.

In response, Iran began to incrementally reduce its compliance with the deal's provisions. By February 2021, Iran had ceased implementing the Additional Protocol, which allowed for more intrusive inspections and limited IAEA access to its nuclear facilities.

The IAEA reported increasing difficulties in verifying Iran's nuclear activities during this time.

If someone hadn't torn up the deal, Iran likely would have remained compliant, wouldn't have elected a hardline, anti-West government that refuses further negotiations, and the sanctions that reignited hostilities wouldn't have been re-applied. Instead, we were left relying on Mr "Art of the Deal" to craft some new, better arrangement. not only did he fail spectacularly to deliver that, but he also obliterated whatever shred of good faith the West had managed to build in this arena.

But sure, we can't believe a word the IAEA say, unless it's of course to tell us Iran isn't complying to give Israel the excuse to strike Iran...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50272 At my desk.	Re: Iran still wants to build nukes Reply #12 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:41pm Quote: From 2013 to 2015, Iran engaged in negotiations leading to the JCPOA and once it was signed and in effect from 2015 until 2018 when Trump scrapped it, they were in full compliance. So why do some of the noncompliances reported this year date all the way back to 2003 and earlier?
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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #13 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:43pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:41pm:

Quote:

From 2013 to 2015, Iran engaged in negotiations leading to the JCPOA and once it was signed and in effect from 2015 until 2018 when Trump scrapped it, they were in full compliance.

So why do some of the noncompliances reported this year date all the way back to 2003 and earlier?

Because the JCPOA was only signed in 2015.

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #14 - Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:45pm

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 1:41pm:

Quote:

From 2013 to 2015, Iran engaged in negotiations leading to the JCPOA and once it was signed and in effect from 2015 until 2018 when Trump scrapped it, they were in full compliance.

So why do some of the noncompliances reported this year date all the way back to 2003 and earlier?

Because the JCPOA was only signed in 2015.

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

The IAEA did not say it was noncompliant in 2003, it said some of the current non-compliances date back to things Iran did over 20 years ago, for which it has been non-compliant ever since.

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