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WW3? An informed conservative perspective (Read 11805 times)
mothra
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WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am
 
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:


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AusGeoff
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:21am
 

Unfortunately, my attention span doesn't always run to 35 minutes.
particularly for a "talking heads" video.

Is it possible for you to post half a dozen lines explaining the gist
of the interview?

Thanks.     Cool

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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:26am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:21am:
Unfortunately, my attention span doesn't always run to 35 minutes.
particularly for a "talking heads" video.

Is it possible for you to post half a dozen lines explaining the gist
of the interview?

Thanks.     Cool




Apologies for threatening you with a taxation on your valuable time.

May i suggest you sit back and wait and see if anyone else feels compelled to educate themselves about crucial world events and perhaps you can follow a discussion resulting from that?

Apologies, i know of no other way to spoon feed you whilst avoiding making points i would prefer the two gentlemen in the clip to make.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:32am
 
Quote:
educate themselves


Grin

With Mothra's youtube videos.
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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:35am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:32am:
Quote:
educate themselves


Grin

With Mothra's youtube videos.



Indeed. Have you any basis on which to dismiss this?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:41am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:35am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:32am:
Quote:
educate themselves


Grin

With Mothra's youtube videos.



Indeed. Have you any basis on which to dismiss this?


Yes. Your posts.

If someone needs a 30+ minute video to explain themselves, they are either incapable of thinking, or selling "infotainment" to morons.

People who insist others watch long youtube videos generally have not reached the realisation that others might be more knowledgeable or have a different perspective than them. Most people get there before primary school. Psychologists mark it as a key stage of development for human beings. I think even some animals show signs of it.
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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #6 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:47am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:41am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:35am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:32am:
Quote:
educate themselves


Grin

With Mothra's youtube videos.



Indeed. Have you any basis on which to dismiss this?


Yes. Your posts.

If someone needs a 30+ minute video to explain themselves, they are either incapable of thinking, or selling "infotainment" to morons.



But i'm not explaining myself.

I am providing outstanding commentary from incredibly knowledgeable and qualified men on the state of play in the wider world.

What's more, they are conservative men.

I am not a conservative, just in case the layered on innuendo intended to discredit my contribution was lost on you.

In short Fleadriver, i thought members of forum might be interested in this clip that i have watched twice through so far, so enthralled was i by it.

I thought i'd share. I hoped even that we could find common ground.

So sorry that hurts you.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #7 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:18am
 
McGregor is good and 'mostly' on target with his comments.
But he hasn't been privy to the latest 'real' info since Biden came to power. He's running on what he had during the Trump term when he was privy to it all.

To understand how WW3 will go about, one must understand first how World Wars - 4, 5, 6, etc go about as the world's people all jostle one another to find their place and purpose in this 'very finite' and now 'very small' world.
If it doesn't 'equalise' - then it doesn't work. Simple as that.

He definitely also sees it from just an 'American' point of view - which is a flaw in itself. If you are going to discuss 'Global or Worldly' issues - then you must take all eight habitable Region's point of view and influence in the matter to understand the truth of it all. Simple mathematics really.

Like I said, McGregor is good - but he's running on fumes and coming up with less as time goes on. If Trump was back in, he might get his old job back and be given the real 'intel' on everything happening currently. Currently though, he's just 'youtubing'.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #8 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:29am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:





of course it's WW3 -

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1712740793/15#25

Iran says its imperative to punish Israel could have been avoided
had UN Security Council condemned attack.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #9 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:31am
 
.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #10 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:32am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:





Douglas Macgregor: Trump 'the only thing standing between us and another pointless war' in Middle East
Published December 30, 2019 10:29pm
https://www.foxnews.com/media/col-macgregor-trump-the-only-thing-standing-betwee...


Fox News’ Invasion Expert Is a Trump-Appointed Putin Propagandist Who Thinks Russia Is Being ‘Too Gentle’
Douglas Macgregor has said there's no point in sanctioning Russia and that America should "absolutely" let Putin take over as much of Ukraine as it wants
MARCH 8, 2022
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/douglas-macgregor-fox-news-t...



Tucker Carlson talked with Col. Douglas Macgregor about the possibility of war with Iran
https://www.facebook.com/DailyCaller/videos/tucker-carlson-talks-war-with-iran/3...

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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #11 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:36am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:32am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:





Douglas Macgregor: Trump 'the only thing standing between us and another pointless war' in Middle East
Published December 30, 2019 10:29pm
https://www.foxnews.com/media/col-macgregor-trump-the-only-thing-standing-betwee...


Fox News’ Invasion Expert Is a Trump-Appointed Putin Propagandist Who Thinks Russia Is Being ‘Too Gentle’
Douglas Macgregor has said there's no point in sanctioning Russia and that America should "absolutely" let Putin take over as much of Ukraine as it wants
MARCH 8, 2022
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/douglas-macgregor-fox-news-t...



Tucker Carlson talked with Col. Douglas Macgregor about the possibility of war with Iran
https://www.facebook.com/DailyCaller/videos/tucker-carlson-talks-war-with-iran/3...



Well done fruitbat!

Did you watch the video?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #12 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:37am
 
Mothra here is some information for you. Let me know when you have finished watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ql8tzQZqAY
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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #13 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:40am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 9:37am:
Mothra here is some information for you. Let me know when you have finished watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ql8tzQZqAY



Would you care to describe what it is about and who is speaking on it?

I really don;t want to mess with my youtube algorithm.
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Frank
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #14 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:15am
 
The artcicle that prompted the interview

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/will-israels-war-expand/


Bonus:

NATO and Europe's need for independence
Douglas Macgregor: "Europeans need to take control of their own destiny"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Z6UscNdjg
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:48 NATO and Europe's need for independence
10:59 Ukraine
15:45 Status of European and Russian military
18:35 Path to peace in Ukraine and Russia's strategy
31:58 Trump
36:07 China and Taiwan
42:05 Macgregor's advice to European voters
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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #15 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:17am
 
What did you learn, fruitbat?

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Frank
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #16 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:17am:
What did you learn, fruitbat?




Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.

As Steyn said in an interview with him 4 years ago, "America is a tourist in the heart of darkness".



I don't believe that Israel is aiming to eradicate the population of Gaza. That is far fetched.  On Ukraine -  don't know. It's like the Balkans - always trouble. The Serbs caused WWI and then within a century they almost started another European war and the Americans had to sort them out.
America doesn't understand the world and its place in it. It is not there to export democracy and build nations. That was a very stupid doctrine after the fall of the Soviet Union. Every attempt of it failed everywhere it was tried.


Opening the borders of America and the West to the world is also a very stupid move. The supreme stupidity of multicultralism and open borders is that it allows ignorance to be evelated to a virtue: you dont need to know anything about the rest of the world, about other cultures, just declare them essentially the same as your own. That is stupid on a global strategic level and on a national  'multicultural'level.
The lesson, remaining unlearned:
The West is becoming a tourist in the heart of darkness it has been importing into its own jurisdictions and continues to import without let up.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #17 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:40am
 
Four years ago.

Care to be updated?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #18 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:41am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:40am:
Four years ago.

Care to be updated?

as the current Macgergor interview you posted shows, nothing has changed not in 4 years but in 20.

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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #19 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:45am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:41am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:40am:
Four years ago.

Care to be updated?

as the current Macgergor interview you posted shows, nothing has changed not in 4 years but in 20.




Lies. You didn't watch it.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #20 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am
 
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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mothra
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #21 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.

All i wanted to do was share what i thought was an amazingly informative video. I thought because it was conservative in nature i might meet minds on a shared playing field.

But look what i got.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #22 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:36am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:45am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:41am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:40am:
Four years ago.

Care to be updated?

as the current Macgergor interview you posted shows, nothing has changed not in 4 years but in 20.




Lies. You didn't watch it.


Macgregor reiterates the same point because the same point remains unchanged since, as he says, since 1991, the collapse of the Soviet Union.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #23 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:36am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.

All i wanted to do was share what i thought was an amazingly informative video. I thought because it was conservative in nature i might meet minds on a shared playing field.

But look what i got.


And all you had to do was insult people for not watching your video.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #24 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:38am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.


mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #25 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:47am
 
A very significant point is made at the 10 minute 43 seconds mark, a point I also made in an earlier post on this thread, about the implicatons andd impact on OUR societies.



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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #26 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:49am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:36am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.

All i wanted to do was share what i thought was an amazingly informative video. I thought because it was conservative in nature i might meet minds on a shared playing field.

But look what i got.


And all you had to do was insult people for not watching your video.

And I actually watched it all and posted the article that prompted it, as pointed out by Napolitano at the end of the interview.


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #27 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:49am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:41am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:35am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:32am:
Quote:
educate themselves


Grin

With Mothra's youtube videos.



Indeed. Have you any basis on which to dismiss this?


Yes. Your posts.

If someone needs a 30+ minute video to explain themselves, they are either incapable of thinking, or selling "infotainment" to morons.

People who insist others watch long youtube videos generally have not reached the realisation that others might be more knowledgeable or have a different perspective than them. Most people get there before primary school. Psychologists mark it as a key stage of development for human beings. I think even some animals show signs of it.


My thoughts on the - intriguing* - thread title, without watching the video (which I will do):

* intriguing , because conservatives are mostly self-justifying  survival of the fittest war-mongers.

If WW3 is a direct result of human design, then god (excuse my reference to god)  should destroy humanity immediately as a failed species, just as he (she?) threatened to destroy Israel back in the day, requiring Moses's intervention via a few words with god, on behalf of Israel. ....!

..which gets me back to the need for rule of law to outlaw war;  speaking of 'educating  yourself' - sorely needed in FD's case.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #28 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:50am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:38am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.


mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.


So mothra said the dialogue was conservative—said nothing about the substance of the dialogue. JS is right—you are too stupid to work in a University even as janitor.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #29 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:50am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:38am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.


mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.


So mothra said the dialogue was conservative—said nothing about the substance of the dialogue. JS is right—you are too stupid to work in a University even as janitor.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

You missed the bit where she said she agreed with it almost entirely- now highlighted for the Juvenile Wanker community.


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #30 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:08pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:26am:
AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:21am:
Unfortunately, my attention span doesn't always run to 35 minutes.
particularly for a "talking heads" video.

Is it possible for you to post half a dozen lines explaining the gist
of the interview?

Thanks.     Cool




Apologies for threatening you with a taxation on your valuable time.

May i suggest you sit back and wait and see if anyone else feels compelled to educate themselves about crucial world events and perhaps you can follow a discussion resulting from that?

Apologies, i know of no other way to spoon feed you whilst avoiding making points i would prefer the two gentlemen in the clip to make.



Dear Mothra, I admit I can't the tolerate listening to the fool on the right (in the video), especially with the video  headed "small government and personal liberty" being the basis of his argument.

Please say what he said that you found attractive, to save me 30 mins of agony listening to another conservative  delusonal "individual rights" dummy.

And do you agree the world needs to outlaw war, to avoid WW3 eg would you vote to abolish the veto in UNSC? 


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #31 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:00pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:50am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:38am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.


mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.


So mothra said the dialogue was conservative—said nothing about the substance of the dialogue. JS is right—you are too stupid to work in a University even as janitor.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

You missed the bit where she said she agreed with it almost entirely- now highlighted for the Juvenile Wanker community.




What did i agree with, fruitbat? What do you think Israels objectives are?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #32 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:14pm
 
Mothra? (see my #30)
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #33 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:14pm
 
Israel's objective is to survive as a modern state.

But that state was created on land occupied by Palestinians in the former 'Palestine Mandate' area, against the will of the Arab world.

Hence - in the absence of an effective international rules-based system - it's 'game on' ie continuous conflict with Palestinians  since Israel's forceful unilateral declaration of its existence. 


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Reply #34 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:14pm
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #35 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:34pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:




Can you just skip to the part where he offers proof that the Jews are putting bombs in toys?
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Reply #36 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 1:17pm
 
Hmm...I can see why Mothra has got herself into strife with conservatives on this thread.

Like the anti-war stance of the Greens; but they don't want to create the machinery to outlaw war, being beholden to 'national sovereignty'/"freedom" bs.

Doc Evatt was right; you can' have effective international law AND  the UNSC veto. 
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Reply #37 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 1:31pm
 
If Israel is seen as the cause of WW3 will its self-proclaimed right to exist be withdrawn?
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Reply #38 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 1:41pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:14pm:
Israel's objective is to survive as a modern state.

But that state was created on land occupied by Palestinians in the former
'Palestine Mandate' area, against the will of the Arab world.

Hence - in the absence of an effective international rules-based system -
it's 'game on' ie continuous conflict with Palestinians  since Israel's forceful unilateral declaration of its existence. 




It can be summed up with one word:   greed.

In fact both sides are greedy -
they both want it all - they don't want to share it.
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Reply #39 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 1:58pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:13pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 12:00pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:50am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:38am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:31am:
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Mothra cannot comprehend the possibility that people might still disagree with her after watching the same 30 minute youtube video.


Disagree with me how? I haven't stated my opinion.


mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.


So mothra said the dialogue was conservative—said nothing about the substance of the dialogue. JS is right—you are too stupid to work in a University even as janitor.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

You missed the bit where she said she agreed with it almost entirely- now highlighted for the Juvenile Wanker community.




What did i agree with, fruitbat? What do you think Israels objectives are?



Well, your thread title is indicates what you think about the interview: informed perspective.
Your opening post also says what you made of it : "This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

So there is 30 minutes of views and ideas and you absolutely agree with almost all of it. So let's say you disagree with 10% of it - 3 minutes, probably one or two ideas.
You are very coy about what these are, though. Still, you yourself said it is informed and you absolutely agree with almost all of it.




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Reply #40 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab
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Reply #41 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


During the Six-Day War, in 1967, Israeli forces occupied the Gaza Strip, and in 1970 Israel built the first Israeli settlement in the territory. By 2005 the Gaza Strip had 21 Israeli settlements and about 9,000 Israeli settlers compared with about 1.3 million Palestinians living in the territory. Meanwhile, in 1993 Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) had agreed to a framework for Palestinian self-governance in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (see Oslo Accords). As part of that peace process, Israeli forces withdrew from the city of Gaza in 1994 (as well as from the West Bank city of Jericho) and transferred civilian functions for the city to the newly created Palestinian Authority (PA). But concerns over Israel’s security derailed the peace process, especially because of violence from religious nationalists on both sides. At the turn of the century, negotiations came to a virtual halt with the outbreak of the second intifada (2000–05).

Despite the impasse, the cost of occupying the Gaza Strip weighed heavily on the Israeli public, especially amid rising casualties among soldiers who were deployed to defend the settlements. In 2002 the idea of evacuating the settlements before negotiations recommenced was floated by the leader of the Israel Labor Party, then the largest party on the Israeli left. In 2003 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon embraced the idea, despite strong opposition within his own Likud Party. That December, Sharon unveiled a plan for the complete removal of Israeli settlers and soldiers from the Gaza Strip. At the insistence of the United States, the plan later included the evacuation of four small settlements in the West Bank.

On August 15, 2005, when the deadline for evacuation had passed, only about two-thirds of all the settlers had left their homes and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) notified the remaining settlers that soldiers would begin enforcing the evacuation order two days later. Most of the remaining settlers agreed to leave when prompted by the soldiers, but some resisted and were carried away, sometimes screaming. The most dramatic evacuation was in Kfar Darom, where soldiers broke through a barricade in a synagogue and removed some 200 residents despite violent protest. On August 22 the IDF reached an agreement with residents of Netzarim, the last of the settlers in the Gaza Strip, whereby they agreed to evacuate after a final prayer service in the local synagogue. In the weeks that followed, Israeli forces demolished residential buildings and dismantled military installations and completed their withdrawal on September 12.



Some land grab.

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Reply #42 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 5:02pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
[quote author=Frank link=1712872603/16#16 date=1712882323]
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.


During the Six-Day War, in 1967, Israeli forces occupied the Gaza Strip, and in 1970 Israel built the first Israeli settlement in the territory. By 2005 the Gaza Strip had 21 Israeli settlements and about 9,000 Israeli settlers compared with about 1.3 million Palestinians living in the territory. Meanwhile, in 1993 Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) had agreed to a framework for Palestinian self-governance in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (see Oslo Accords). As part of that peace process, Israeli forces withdrew from the city of Gaza in 1994 (as well as from the West Bank city of Jericho) and transferred civilian functions for the city to the newly created Palestinian Authority (PA). But concerns over Israel’s security derailed the peace process, especially because of violence from religious nationalists on both sides. At the turn of the century, negotiations came to a virtual halt with the outbreak of the second intifada (2000–05).

Despite the impasse, the cost of occupying the Gaza Strip weighed heavily on the Israeli public, especially amid rising casualties among soldiers who were deployed to defend the settlements. In 2002 the idea of evacuating the settlements before negotiations recommenced was floated by the leader of the Israel Labor Party, then the largest party on the Israeli left. In 2003 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon embraced the idea, despite strong opposition within his own Likud Party. That December, Sharon unveiled a plan for the complete removal of Israeli settlers and soldiers from the Gaza Strip. At the insistence of the United States, the plan later included the evacuation of four small settlements in the West Bank.

On August 15, 2005, when the deadline for evacuation had passed, only about two-thirds of all the settlers had left their homes and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) notified the remaining settlers that soldiers would begin enforcing the evacuation order two days later. Most of the remaining settlers agreed to leave when prompted by the soldiers, but some resisted and were carried away, sometimes screaming. The most dramatic evacuation was in Kfar Darom, where soldiers broke through a barricade in a synagogue and removed some 200 residents despite violent protest. On August 22 the IDF reached an agreement with residents of Netzarim, the last of the settlers in the Gaza Strip, whereby they agreed to evacuate after a final prayer service in the local synagogue. In the weeks that followed, Israeli forces demolished residential buildings and dismantled military installations and completed their withdrawal on September 12.



Some land grab.




Do not the the truth get in the way of bogus victimhood.
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Reply #43 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 5:54pm
 
Eat shyte Smith you turd muncher.  Grin
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Reply #44 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 
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Reply #45 - Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:01pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing

How many of that were Hamarse fighters? 
Women and 'children' of 15-18 are also Hamarse fighters.

Who are the Palestinian resistance to the fascist Hamerse goons?

Why aren't YOU there fighting the Jooos?



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Reply #46 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 8:25am
 
Well - did Hamas blow that one full time!!!!!!

They've confessed that they do not have forty Israeli hostages left to exchange for 900 retarded Arabs with hare lips... own goal - now what is to stop Israel flattening the joint to dig them out?

One of the greatest OOPS moments in Middle East history.... why should Israel waste time 'negotiating' with morons for the impossible?  Murderous savage - not human at all.

Let Allah sort 'em out....... they should be grateful for the chance for a chat with him.... turn the 900 wastes of good food loose into a very wide no man's land and start shooting them as they run.... good practice.
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Reply #47 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:48am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


During the Six-Day War, in 1967, Israeli forces occupied the Gaza Strip..... 


Er...did you miss it?

The IDF occupied the entire WB as well as the Gaza Strip.

That's why Hamas is so angry - apart from the fact the Arab world never accepted the confiscation of Palestine Mandate  land to create Israel... aka a "land grab".....   


 
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Reply #48 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:49am
 
.
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Reply #49 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:49am
 
.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #50 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 10:30am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:26am:
AusGeoff wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:21am:
Unfortunately, my attention span doesn't always run to 35 minutes.
particularly for a "talking heads" video.

Is it possible for you to post half a dozen lines explaining the gist
of the interview?

Thanks.     Cool


Apologies for threatening you with a taxation on your valuable time.

May i suggest you sit back and wait and see if anyone else feels compelled to educate themselves about crucial world events and perhaps you can follow a discussion resulting from that?

Apologies, i know of no other way to spoon feed you whilst avoiding making points i would prefer the two gentlemen in the clip to make.

Is there any particular reason that your responses to other
members here are invariably insulting, inflammatory and just
not really agreeable?  As this one is?

I actually have an underlying mental disorder that's caused my
longer-term attention span to have decreased as I've aged—I'm
78 this year.

That you can't even take a couple of minutes in order to write
a half-dozen-line précis says more about you than me Mothra. 
In fact the amount of time and effort you've spent posting your
nasty little response could've been better spent doing just that.

And it would've been more helpful—maybe even to others here.

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Reply #51 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 10:53am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:48am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


During the Six-Day War, in 1967, Israeli forces occupied the Gaza Strip..... 


Er...did you miss it?

The IDF occupied the entire WB as well as the Gaza Strip.

That's why Hamas is so angry - apart from the fact the Arab world never accepted the confiscation of Palestine Mandate  land to create Israel... aka a "land grab".....   


 


They had been occupied by Jordan and Egypt, respectively.
They were NEVER independent 'Palestinian' territories.



The Kurds want independence from Turkey, Syria, Iran. They have been suppressed and killed by each of these countries for decades. They are all Muslims so there is no big self-righteous protests at the Opera House.  Penny Wong is not dangling promises of statehood for the Kurds.

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Reply #52 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 11:52am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 10:53am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:48am:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


During the Six-Day War, in 1967, Israeli forces occupied the Gaza Strip..... 


Er...did you miss it?

The IDF occupied the entire WB as well as the Gaza Strip.

That's why Hamas is so angry - apart from the fact the Arab world never accepted the confiscation of Palestine Mandate  land to create Israel... aka a "land grab".....   


 


They had been occupied by Jordan and Egypt, respectively.
They were NEVER independent 'Palestinian' territories.


The land known as  'Palestinian Mandate' land (after the collapse of the Ottomans)  had been part of the Islamic world since the 8th century AD. Even Britain during the League of Nations era acknowledged that.

Quote:
The Kurds want independence from Turkey, Syria, Iran. They have been suppressed and killed by each of these countries for decades. They are all Muslims so there is no big self-righteous protests at the Opera House.  Penny Wong is not dangling promises of statehood for the Kurds.


Independence movements within (former)  empires are different to the unilateral proclamation of Israel which was de facto supported by the UN.
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Reply #53 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:16pm
 
Things are hottin' up.  Shocked
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Fire the LIAR in 2028!
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Reply #54 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:16pm
 
What's the definition of WW3?

Normally we think every nation will be involved, and possibly nuclear weapons will be used

What a catastrophe that would be

In the video, the nations most talked about were:

Israel, Iran, Russia, and the United States - not really the "World" are they?

Any big future war will probably start in the Middle East where all the hot heads are

And that's it, the hotter the heads, the better chance of war

We better stay out of any future conflict over there, and we're off to a good start by not sending a naval ship to the Red Sea

Palestinians in Australia are about to blockade roads, ports and anything else they can stand in front of

Imagine what they'd do if we took part in a future war on the side of the Israelis

This is why Penny Wong is calling for a two state solution - It may work, but it may not, the Palestinians would have to be convinced first

So, an all encompassing World War is not likely, we'll just get a continuation of regional wars






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Reply #55 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:59pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:01pm:
How many of that were Hamarse fighters? 



Israel cannot tell you because they neither know nor care
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Reply #56 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 1:01pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 9:48am:
The IDF occupied the entire WB as well as the Gaza Strip.



they never moved out. They only pretended to do so. Nothing happened in Gaza without Israel's approval. Thats hardly 'moving out'..
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Reply #57 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 4:59pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:59pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:01pm:
How many of that were Hamarse fighters? 



Israel cannot tell you because they neither know nor care

Exactly. Gaza = Hamarse.
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Reply #58 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 5:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 4:59pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:59pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:01pm:
How many of that were Hamarse fighters? 



Israel cannot tell you because they neither know nor care

Exactly. Gaza = Hamarse.

...
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Reply #59 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 6:16pm
 
Rome supported the creation of Palestine in Israel/Judah Jewish lands to undermine the Jewish presence there.
Such support allowed Palestine and other 'Arab' surrounding nations to eventually force all Jews out to be scattered 'elsewhere' like homeless (the wandering jews).

...now the Jews are back thanks to Great Britain and the modern world and it looks like 'KARMA' is kicking the Roman created Palestine out - so they too can experience what its like to be homeless.

What goes around, comes around.
Suck it up Terrorist!
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Reply #60 - Apr 13th, 2024 at 6:22pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 4:59pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 12:59pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 8:01pm:
How many of that were Hamarse fighters? 



Israel cannot tell you because they neither know nor care

Exactly. Gaza = Hamarse.

More like Frank = dumbarse
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Reply #61 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 10:12am
 
Jasin wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 6:16pm:
Rome supported the creation of Palestine in Israel/Judah Jewish lands to undermine the Jewish presence there.
Such support allowed Palestine and other 'Arab' surrounding nations to eventually force all Jews out to be scattered 'elsewhere' like homeless (the wandering jews).

...now the Jews are back thanks to Great Britain and the modern world and it looks like 'KARMA' is kicking the Roman created Palestine out - so they too can experience what its like to be homeless.


"Looks like"...but the UN voted to partition Palestine, not eliminate it.

Quote:
What goes around, comes around.
Suck it up Terrorist!


Yes, and Netanyahu is well on the way to achieving recognition of the Palestinian state...the US won't want to be the only country in the world blocking its creation.   


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Reply #62 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 10:14am
 
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Reply #63 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 10:15am
 
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Reply #64 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 10:15am
 
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Reply #65 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Reply #66 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?
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Reply #67 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm
 
John Fido doesn't want to admit that Israel protects its women and children and HAM-ARSE doesn't protect its own women and children.
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Reply #68 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Would you like to buy some land on the moon Mothra?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #69 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Would you like to buy some land on the moon Mothra?


What a stupid retort.

Keep trolling, Fleadriver.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #70 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:29pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 10:12am:
Jasin wrote on Apr 13th, 2024 at 6:16pm:
Rome supported the creation of Palestine in Israel/Judah Jewish lands to undermine the Jewish presence there.
Such support allowed Palestine and other 'Arab' surrounding nations to eventually force all Jews out to be scattered 'elsewhere' like homeless (the wandering jews).

...now the Jews are back thanks to Great Britain and the modern world and it looks like 'KARMA' is kicking the Roman created Palestine out - so they too can experience what its like to be homeless.


"Looks like"...but the UN voted to partition Palestine, not eliminate it.

Quote:
What goes around, comes around.
Suck it up Terrorist!


Yes, and Netanyahu is well on the way to achieving recognition of the Palestinian state...the US won't want to be the only country in the world blocking its creation.   





Everyone's entitle to a few mistakes.... it's just life.... perpetuating those, however, when the proof is in ... well.... let's just say that's plain egotistic orneriness... gotta save face even when it's two faced ....
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #71 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:30pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Might as well get in early..... grab a few choice hundreds of acres along the waterfront and build the paradise resort the dopey Palestinians should have been building, along with the tax haven Swiss style banking.

Trust an Arab to stuff it all up ....   Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #72 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:41pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Would you like to buy some land on the moon Mothra?


What a stupid retort.

Keep trolling, Fleadriver.


Do you always check the New Jersey real estate ads for an update on the latest conflict in the middle east?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #73 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:44pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #74 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:47pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:44pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


You mean you didn't know?

The levels of awareness versus the levels of vehemence on this forum are seriously out of whack.


https://therealnews.com/illegal-real-estate-sales-of-palestinian-land-are-happen...

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #75 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:54pm
 
Jared Kushner says Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’

Donald Trump’s son-in-law also says Israel should bulldoze an area of the Negev desert and move Palestinians there


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-pr...


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #76 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:00pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:44pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


You mean you didn't know?

The levels of awareness versus the levels of vehemence on this forum are seriously out of whack.


https://therealnews.com/illegal-real-estate-sales-of-palestinian-land-are-happen...



Where did you get that claim from Mothra?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #77 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


Yes.... like the UN grabbing Arab land for an Israeli state.

As compensation,  the UN could have at least created the remnant Palestinian state at the same time, with security of both states enforced by the UNSC.

But now 140 nations recognize Palestine, with Spain and Slovenia planning to present another resolution to the UNGA on the issue; the US - trying to create a united front of 'democracies' against China - will begin to see its 'soft power' in the world evaporate. 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #78 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:03pm
 
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Reply #79 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:07pm
 

US: Israeli real estate event draws backlash over sale of West Bank settlement properties
Council on American-Islamic Relations calls for federal investigation into real estate event in Teaneck, New Jersey

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-israeli-real-estate-event-draws-backlash-o...


Legal complaints escalate over Israeli real estate events

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2024/03/15/israeli-real-estate-event-lega...


https://reason.com/2024/03/11/the-west-bank-comes-to-new-jersey/



Need more?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #80 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:53pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:44pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:45pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 3:01pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 10:38am:
Nothing new. Macgregor explains larger strategic chessboards.



Like the Israeli land grab


Some land grab.



With 33000+ dead and climbing, mostly women and children,  it certainly is some land grab. 


You are confused John. Hamas starting another war they are bound to lose is not the same thing as an Israeli land grabs. Land grabs usually involve grabbing land, don't you think?


You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


You mean you didn't know?

The levels of awareness versus the levels of vehemence on this forum are seriously out of whack.


https://therealnews.com/illegal-real-estate-sales-of-palestinian-land-are-happen...


Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #81 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:57pm
 
If you go to their website, their properties are all in Jerusalem. And so they’re not selling properties in Gaza dot, dot, dot yet, question mark.

https://therealnews.com/illegal-real-estate-sales-of-palestinian-land-are-happen...
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #82 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:59pm
 
That's right, fruitbat. Ignore all of the links. Don;t try to google it. Don;t learn.

How else can you possibly justify staying as bigoted and hateful as you are?

This ha s to be the least informed political forum on the internet. Just how Fleadriver planned it.
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Reply #83 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:00pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 5:57pm:
If you go to their website, their properties are all in Jerusalem. And so they’re not selling properties in Gaza dot, dot, dot yet, question mark.

https://therealnews.com/illegal-real-estate-sales-of-palestinian-land-are-happen...



And the West Bank, fruitbat. And according to informed commentators, in Gaza itself.

Did you know that Israel were also bombing the West Bank?

Probably not.
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Reply #84 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:04pm
 
Why, you can hear all about it here:



Not that you will, of course.

Who to believe? John Mearsheimer or the fruitbat?
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Reply #85 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:08pm
 
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Reply #86 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:12pm
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #87 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:18pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Did you make this up Mothra?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #88 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Did you make this up Mothra?


Evidently not.

But hey, don't blame me when even spoon-feeding fails to nourish you.

Stay stupid and bigoted, Fleadriver.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #89 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:26pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:24pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
You mean like the "water front properties" recently being flogged off in Gaza by New Jersey real estate agents?


Did you make this up Mothra?


Evidently not.

But hey, don't blame me when even spoon-feeding fails to nourish you.

Stay stupid and bigoted, Fleadriver.


Where is it from?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #90 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:31pm
 
I'm confused : Mearsheimers appears to be making absolute sense (I tuned in  around the 20 min mark) in asserting  the Israelis are conducting genocide in Gaza, as well as deliberately trying to get the Americans to attack Iran.

I'm comfused because Mothra claimed the professor  in the video is a conservative.

He must be an antiwar conservative, a rare breed.
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Reply #91 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:32pm
 
.
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Reply #92 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:32pm
 
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Reply #93 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:32pm
 
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Reply #94 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:33pm
 
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Reply #95 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:42pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:31pm:
Im confused : Mearsheimers appears to be making absolute sense (from around the 20 min mark) in asserting  the Israelis are conducting genocide in Gaza, as well as deliberately trying to get the Americans to attack Iran.

I'm comfused because Mothra claimed the professor  in the video is a conservative.

He must be an antiwar conservative, a rare breed.


Shows how much you both know in reality... and how very much you both rely on assumptions about others for which there is no support but your own particular version of insanity and stupidity.... like American political fanatics - you assume everyone and everything is black and white and when someone shows a grey you die in the arse trying to figure it out....


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Reply #96 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:43pm
 




            
              chop                             divide                     and                               mothra                  smith                           and     laugher                        are                    gone
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« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2024 at 7:09pm by Grappler Racist Filth »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Reply #97 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:43pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Reply #98 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:44pm
 
.
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Reply #99 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:44pm
 


                                                                                  *
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Reply #100 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:54pm
 
.
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Reply #101 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 7:00pm
 
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:42pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:31pm:
Im confused : Mearsheimers appears to be making absolute sense (from around the 20 min mark) in asserting  the Israelis are conducting genocide in Gaza, as well as deliberately trying to get the Americans to attack Iran.

I'm comfused because Mothra claimed the professor  in the video is a conservative.

He must be an antiwar conservative, a rare breed.


Shows how much you both know in reality... and how very much you both rely on assumptions about others for which there is no support but your own particular version of insanity and stupidity.... like American political fanatics - you assume everyone and everything is black and white and when someone shows a grey you die in the arse trying to figure it out....




Ah graps... a reasonable point from you at last; I was hoping Mothra would explain her understanding  of Prof. Mearsheimers 'conservatism'.

(I still don't want to watch the entire video).

But I have no doubt about your  (conservative) 'individual responsibility' world view: you would rather take your chances with  WW3, than outlaw war. 


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Reply #102 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 7:08pm
 
.
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Reply #103 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 7:09pm
 
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Reply #104 - Apr 14th, 2024 at 7:39pm
 
Nothing EVER unfolds as the newspapers predict. 

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Reply #105 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:24am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:31pm:
I'm confused : Mearsheimers appears to be making absolute sense (I tuned in  around the 20 min mark) in asserting  the Israelis are conducting genocide in Gaza, as well as deliberately trying to get the Americans to attack Iran.

I'm comfused because Mothra claimed the professor  in the video is a conservative.

He must be an antiwar conservative, a rare breed.


Small 'c' conservative.


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Reply #106 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 3:04am
 
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Reply #109 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 3:05am
 
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Reply #110 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:07am
 
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started in a malicious act of depravity

It beggars belief that even the terrorists of Hamas and other organisations of similar bent, could engage in the murder and abuse of innocents as we now know for certain occurred on October 7.

Take for example the people attending the rock concert, dedicated to peace.

Murder, rape and kidnapping were the consequences of Hamas crossing the border.

The current war would not be occurring but for Hamas, almost certainly at the behest of its Iranian mentors, committing such widespread atrocities, in the certain knowledge that the Israeli response would be massive.

And why did Iran choose to push Hamas last October?

At this time, US diplomacy appeared to be succeeding in encouraging Saudi Arabia and other Arab states to recognise Israel.

This would be catastrophic for Iranian ambitions in the region.

So, let us be clear.

The Iranians in particular bear enormous responsibility as an openly terrorist regime for all that has happened in the Gaza strip.

They are a regime dedicated to creating maximum turmoil in the region.

This is part of the regime's survival strategy in Teheran.

If anyone should doubt Iranian involvement, then a glance at the presence of Iranian Revolutionary Guards in Syria in liaison with the Hezbollah terrorist grouping will remove any doubts.

US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, put this clearly on April 9 last: “It remains astounding to me that the world is almost deafeningly silent when it comes to Hamas”.  The terrorists are never taken before international courts, nor is its leadership ever brought to book and held responsible.
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Reply #111 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am
 
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started in a malicious act of depravity

It beggars belief that even the terrorists of Hamas and other organisations of similar bent, could engage in the murder and abuse of innocents as we now know for certain occurred on October 7.

Take for example the people attending the rock concert, dedicated to peace.

Murder, rape and kidnapping were the consequences of Hamas crossing the border.

The current war would not be occurring but for Hamas, almost certainly at the behest of its Iranian mentors, committing such widespread atrocities, in the certain knowledge that the Israeli response would be massive.

And why did Iran choose to push Hamas last October?

At this time, US diplomacy appeared to be succeeding in encouraging Saudi Arabia and other Arab states to recognise Israel.

This would be catastrophic for Iranian ambitions in the region.

So, let us be clear.

The Iranians in particular bear enormous responsibility as an openly terrorist regime for all that has happened in the Gaza strip.

They are a regime dedicated to creating maximum turmoil in the region.

This is part of the regime's survival strategy in Teheran.

If anyone should doubt Iranian involvement, then a glance at the presence of Iranian Revolutionary Guards in Syria in liaison with the Hezbollah terrorist grouping will remove any doubts.

US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, put this clearly on April 9 last: “It remains astounding to me that the world is almost deafeningly silent when it comes to Hamas”.  The terrorists are never taken before international courts, nor is its leadership ever brought to book and held responsible.

Stephen Loosley
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Reply #112 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:19am
 
Seen on X (twitter) today:

David Sacks

"After the U.S. hit Soleimani, Trump says that he understood that Iran had to hit back to save face. So he managed the escalation to avoid a war. Is Biden capable of thinking this way?"

Well, to answer Sacks, the WH is urging restraint by Israel.

While Trump failed to implement UN res 242.
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Reply #113 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 




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« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:32am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #114 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:26am
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #115 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:35am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:24am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 14th, 2024 at 6:31pm:
I'm confused : Mearsheimers appears to be making absolute sense (I tuned in  around the 20 min mark) in asserting  the Israelis are conducting genocide in Gaza, as well as deliberately trying to get the Americans to attack Iran.

I'm comfused because Mothra claimed the professor  in the video is a conservative.

He must be an antiwar conservative, a rare breed.


Small 'c' conservative.


Ah, thanks.

He certainly calls out the Israeli genocide in Gaza for what it is - something a Conservative would never do - witness this thread.

Graps says I don't know small 'c' from capital 'C' (C/conservative), but graps (an anti-governement Libertarian) is promoting the completion of the genocide in Gaza.


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #116 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:36am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 


In what sense did the UN confiscate the land? Aren't you the one who always says we should stick with what the UN wanted?
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Reply #117 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:51am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:36am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 


In what sense did the UN confiscate the land?


The UN voted to partition Palestine, thereby being complicit in the confiscation of  more than half of the Palestine Mandate land, for the proposed Israeli state.

The actual confiscation occured when  Zionists unilaterally proclaimed the existence of Israel, during the violence which followed the UN partition vote. 

Quote:
Aren't you the one who always says we should stick with what the UN wanted?


No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.

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« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:57am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #118 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:54am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started and continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 






Corrected for you.


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Reply #119 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am
 
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.

There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #120 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:01am
 
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:54am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started and continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 






Corrected for you.


You need to assist FD to reply to my #117 (at the time of writing, no more questions from him....) , to  show how you "corrected" my post.
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Reply #121 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.


Oh dear...regardless of age, low IQ is entreched in some people.

Of course the UN resolution to partitioin Palestine didn't involve the UNSDC veto, because all UNSC members were in favour of the proposal.

The probem arose when the Arabs - without representation in the UNSC - began resisting self-proclaimed Israeli sovereignty (in the land designated as Israel by the UN). 

That's when the UNSC veto reared its ugly head, meaning  the UNSC was unable to speak with one voice, to maintain the peace.

Quote:
There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.


Refuted above.

"moronic"  ...oh dear, it's mirror time again.
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Reply #122 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am
 
.
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Reply #123 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:18am
 
.
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Reply #124 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:18am
 
.
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Reply #125 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:18am
 
... got a big fish on the line....................
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Reply #126 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:19am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.

There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.



Encyclopedia Britannica

United Nations Resolution 181
Israeli-Palestinian history
   
Also known as: Resolution 181
Written and fact-checked by
Article History
UN partition plan for Israel and Palestine in 1947

United Nations Resolution 181, resolution passed by the United Nations (UN) General Assembly in 1947 that called for the partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, with the city of Jerusalem as a corpus separatum (Latin: “separate entity”) to be governed by a special international regime. The resolution—which was considered by the Jewish community in Palestine to be a legal basis for the establishment of Israel, and which was rejected by the Arab community—was succeeded almost immediately by violence.

Palestine had been governed by Great Britain since 1922. Since that time, Jewish immigration to the region had increased, and tensions between Arabs and Jews had grown. In April 1947, exhausted by World War II and increasingly intent upon withdrawing from the Middle East region, Britain referred the issue of Palestine to the UN. To investigate a suitable course of action, the UN formed the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP), an inquiry committee made up of members from 11 countries. Ultimately, UNSCOP delivered two proposals: that of the majority, which recommended two separate states joined economically, and that of the minority, which supported the formation of a single binational state made up of autonomous Jewish and Palestinian areas. The Jewish community approved of the first of these proposals, while the Arabs opposed them both. A counterproposal—including a provision that only those Jews who had arrived before the Balfour Declaration (and their descendents) would be citizens of the state—did not win Jewish favour.

The proposal to partition Palestine, based on a modified version of the UNSCOP majority report, was put to a General Assembly vote on November 29, 1947. The fate of the proposal was initially uncertain, but, after a period of intense lobbying by pro-Jewish groups and individuals, the resolution was passed with 33 votes in favour, 13 against, and 10 abstentions.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-181

Who voted for, against, abstentions:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Fina...


No veto.


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« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:24am by Frank »  

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #127 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:20am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.


Oh dear...regardless of age, low IQ is entreched in some people.

Of course the UN resolution to partitioin Palestine didn't involve the UNSDC veto, because all UNSC members were in favour of the proposal.

The problem arose when the Arabs - without representation in the UNSC - began resisting self-proclaimed attacking Israeli sovereignty (in the land designated as Israel by the UN). 

That's when the UNSC veto reared its ugly head, meaning  the UNSC was unable to speak with one voice, to maintain the peace.

Quote:
There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.


Refuted above.

"moronic"  ...oh dear, it's mirror time again.


Corrected partially for you - just walking over the personal nonsense from an alleged adult...   Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #128 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:21am
 
                           chew                            on                     dividie's                    arse
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Reply #129 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:22am
 




                      stealth                      glitches                             in                                    operation
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Reply #130 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:23am
 
                    it                       drives                            him                                 c      r      a     z         y
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Reply #131 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:24am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.


Oh dear...regardless of age, low IQ is entreched in some people.

Of course the UN resolution to partitioin Palestine didn't involve the UNSDC veto, because all UNSC members were in favour of the proposal.

The probem arose when the Arabs - without representation in the UNSC - began resisting self-proclaimed Israeli sovereignty (in the land designated as Israel by the UN). 

That's when the UNSC veto reared its ugly head, meaning  the UNSC was unable to speak with one voice, to maintain the peace.

Quote:
There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.


Refuted above.

"moronic"  ...oh dear, it's mirror time again.

Ah, you mean the Arabs exercised their lizard-brain individual sovereignty and voted against the wishes of the majority, against common prosperity and peaceful coexist e nice, and then immediately attacked Israel to force their wishes upon it and on the majority of the UN members a nd consensus.

Tsk, tsk  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
You are an endlessly self-contradictory, dogmatic little pea-brained parrot.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #132 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:48am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:51am:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:36am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 


In what sense did the UN confiscate the land?


The UN voted to partition Palestine, thereby being complicit in the confiscation of  more than half of the Palestine Mandate land, for the proposed Israeli state.

The actual confiscation occured when  Zionists unilaterally proclaimed the existence of Israel, during the violence which followed the UN partition vote. 

Quote:
Aren't you the one who always says we should stick with what the UN wanted?


No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.



So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?

You cannot seem to make up your mind whether to complain about the UN partitioning or complain about them not sending in troops to enforce their declarations. Is there some higher authority other than the UN who you think should have established a state instead?
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Reply #133 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:08pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:24am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.


Oh dear...regardless of age, low IQ is entreched in some people.

Of course the UN resolution to partitioin Palestine didn't involve the UNSDC veto, because all UNSC members were in favour of the proposal.

The probem arose when the Arabs - without representation in the UNSC - began resisting self-proclaimed Israeli sovereignty (in the land designated as Israel by the UN). 

That's when the UNSC veto reared its ugly head, meaning  the UNSC was unable to speak with one voice, to maintain the peace.

Quote:
There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.


Refuted above.

"moronic"  ...oh dear, it's mirror time again.


Ah, you mean the Arabs exercised their lizard-brain individual sovereignty and voted against the wishes of the majority,


In the UNGA...yes.

Nice to see you make a correct statement now and again, but I fear it won't be repeated below....


Quote:
....against common prosperity and peaceful coexist e nice,


Oh dear - nothing to with common prosperity and peaceful coexistence, everything to do with lizard brains and their delusional cultural/national  sovereignty ideologies...

Quote:
and then immediately attacked Israel to force their wishes upon it and on the majority of the UN members a nd consensus.


The non-Arab/non-UNSC members of the UNGA were  powerless to prevent the violonce resulting from a general  ignorance of the egregious effects of cultural/ national sovereignty delusions - delusions which caused the veto to be demanded by the UNSC members only a year earlier (despite the fact delegates from many smaller countries voted to withhold the veto from the UNSC in 1946)


Quote:
Tsk, tsk  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
You are an endlessly self-contradictory, dogmatic little pea-brained parrot.


Refuted above; aren't you ashamed to have your "individual freedom" delusions so utterly exposed?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #134 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:48am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:51am:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:36am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started continued in a malicious act of depravity
, in revenge for the unresolved confiscation of Palestinian land by the UN in 1947


Corrected for you.

The rest of the article is self-justifying GIGO.  Loosely  reveals the fault-lines in the ALP re the creation of Israel, mirroring the old DLP  conflict re Catholicism versus Marxism. 


In what sense did the UN confiscate the land?


The UN voted to partition Palestine, thereby being complicit in the confiscation of  more than half of the Palestine Mandate land, for the proposed Israeli state.

The actual confiscation occured when  Zionists unilaterally proclaimed the existence of Israel, during the violence which followed the UN partition vote. 

Quote:
Aren't you the one who always says we should stick with what the UN wanted?


No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.



So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?


A brain-damaged question.

The UN by vote, and  the Zionists by force, confiscated more than 50%  of Palestinian Mandate land.

Quote:
You cannot seem to make up your mind whether to complain about the UN partitioning or complain about them not sending in troops to enforce their declarations.


Oh yes I can: the UN should have guaranteed a Palestinian state alongside Israel, BEFORE recognising Israel's existance.

But the UN(SC) was rendered powerless by your delusional "individual freedom" ideology, hence Israel enforced its own existance - and the rest is history.

Now 140 UNGA members (2/3rds)  are calling for a Palestinian state, but ONE nation - the global hegemon -  is exercising its veto power.   

Quote:
Is there some higher authority other than the UN who you think should have established a state instead?


Yes: one capable of establishing an  effective international rules-based order.
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Reply #135 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm
 
Quote:
The UN by vote, and  the Zionists by force, confiscated more than 50%  of Palestinian Mandate land.


So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?

Quote:
Oh yes I can: the UN should have guaranteed a Palestinian state alongside Israel, BEFORE recognising Israel's existance.


That is not what the UN does. It cannot force Muslims to create a functioning state instead of devoting their efforts towards slaughtering Jews.

Am I correct that your problem is not with Israel's existence, it is with the UN not setting up a second state alongside it?

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
Quote:
Is there some higher authority other than the UN who you think should have established a state instead?


Yes: one capable of establishing an  effective international rules-based order.


Sigh. I am asking you about the reality, not your fantasy. Does this higher authority actually exist? Are you referring to your insistence that the USA intervenes?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #136 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:54pm
 
boo hoo

so the poor old palestinians got displaced

now they have acted up

they can get displaced again

into the sinai desert or back under whatever rock they crawled out from under

the other arab states despise them

one wonders why

maybe its because they are despicable

bye bye gazans

enjoy your tents in the sinai

next time, maybe dont elect a terrorist government

learn from your mistakes

take some 'personal responsibility" for where you messed up.




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Reply #137 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 1:04pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
  effective international rules-based order.

Yes the final soution is the Chinese Peoples' Military Province of Palestine-Israel. With naval order in the Western China Sea.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #138 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:19pm
 
"establishing an  effective international rules-based order."

Done a great job there so far................................... now then - when you can compel the Muslim states to stop firing on Israel while Israel fends off the attacks with a little help from the USAF and the RAF .... didn't miss that, did you?  Even Syria is supposed to be assisting the defence..... they know who'll win eventually.

The UN is becoming increasingly isolated and deservedly so.... weak as piss and now dominated by losers ... lucky to get through the double doors with those chips on their shoulders....
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Reply #139 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:45pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:08pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:24am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 11:17am:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Quote:
No, I'm the one who says Doc Evatt was right....ie effective international law requires  a UNSC without veto.


As even the dimmest 12 year old knows, there was NO UNSC veto power involved in the UN resolution to partition the British mandate of Palestine.
Israel simply accepted the UN resolutions, the Mohammedans did not.


Oh dear...regardless of age, low IQ is entreched in some people.

Of course the UN resolution to partitioin Palestine didn't involve the UNSDC veto, because all UNSC members were in favour of the proposal.

The probem arose when the Arabs - without representation in the UNSC - began resisting self-proclaimed Israeli sovereignty (in the land designated as Israel by the UN). 

That's when the UNSC veto reared its ugly head, meaning  the UNSC was unable to speak with one voice, to maintain the peace.

Quote:
There was no veto so your endless moronic parrotting about UNSC veto powers is totally irrelevant, like practically all your fatuous, doctrinaire misunderstandings and misrepresentations of any given topic and issue.


Refuted above.

"moronic"  ...oh dear, it's mirror time again.


Ah, you mean the Arabs exercised their lizard-brain individual sovereignty and voted against the wishes of the majority,


In the UNGA...yes.

Nice to see you make a correct statement now and again, but I fear it won't be repeated below....


Quote:
....against common prosperity and peaceful coexist e nice,


Oh dear - nothing to with common prosperity and peaceful coexistence, everything to do with lizard brains and their delusional cultural/national  sovereignty ideologies...


Cheesy Cheesy
So the problem started by the Jews accepting the UN resolution and Muslims starting a war instead.
And that is the UNSC's fault because they didn't stop the lizard-brained, individual sovereignty Muslims from starting a war despite the clearly expressed will of the UN for common prosperity and peaceful coexistence in the Middle East.

You talk some really self-contradictory, hare-brained crap.


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Reply #140 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:56pm
 
Meanwhile, after six months in geopolitical Coventry, Israel is once again flush with allies:

(April 14, 2024 / JNS) The United States, United Kingdom and Jordan downed many of the over 300 projectiles launched at Israel by Iran overnight Sunday, while France also played a role in defending the Jewish state against the unprecedented attack.

The Jordanians were mostly concerned to protect their own territory from carelessly targeted incoming, the French are said to have confined their efforts to patrolling the airspace and giving a friendly head's up, and the British dispatched jets from the RAF base at Akrotiri to take out Iranian drones over Syria and Iraq. Whether any of these efforts were militarily necessary to Israel's defence, they're not likely to be politically popular on their respective home fronts. Yet all were eager to be perceived as in on the operation, and their participation is being hailed as the emergence of a new Israeli-Sunni-western regional security force:

So rather than weaken Israel, Iran's attack has ended up convening an extraordinary military alliance – with Arabs, Israelis, Americans and British acting as one to neutralise the assault.

The Tehran regime is many things but it is not stupid. It has seeded its proxies - Hamas, Hizb'allah and Houthis - all over the map, and it showed greater strategic clarity over Iraq than the boobs in Washington did: America toppled Saddam, but the mullahs got the spoils. If Iran had lobbed what they threw at Israel at the average EU member, its cities would be in flames and its mortuaries full. It is not credible that the mullahs would not be fully aware that the Iron Dome would hold. So that's an awful lot of matériel to blow on a minimal bang for the buck.

When the Iranians use their cut-outs, they know how to kill Jews: General Zahedi, the Quds Force commander assassinated by the IDF earlier this month, is said to have been the man behind the October 7th operation - which certainly would seem to be beyond the capabilities of the average Hamas honcho. By comparison with the visceral depravity of autumn's parachutists and flatbed riders, last night's assault had the air of the performative and bloodless. For his part, the squinting mumbling stiff being passed off as "Leader of the Free World" could do no more than recycle his summer-stock slab of ham from his pre-Ukraine shtick. For Khamenei as for Putin, a single word:

Don't.

And Khamenei, like Putin, did.

But ineffectually.

IDF warplanes killed Zahedi in the Iranian Embassy compound in Damascus, which is an act of war - notwithstanding Israel's artful argument that their particular target was a non-consular building within a consular complex. Still, it could hardly not have provoked a response from Tehran. As the lefties at The Guardian argue:

"The war had come out of the shadows – and this was Netanyahu's doing. He must have known how furious would be the reaction in Tehran. Tellingly, he did not inform his US ally in advance, probably because the Biden administration would have tried to veto the operation. The Damascus embassy attack looks like a premeditated escalation designed to fortify Netanyahu's domestic political position, silence criticism from the blind-sided Americans and deflect international pressure to halt arms supplies to Israel.

And it has worked."

Indeed. After forty-five years of loosing its lethal proxies on Jews all over the world, Iran decided to act as a sovereign state and for the first time openly sic its official armed forces on Israel.

But without killing anyone ...and after giving the Sunni Arab states a seventy-two-hours advance warning. And, having offered up its most expensive baubles for Anglo-Franco-American-Jordanian target practice, Tehran has now assured the United Nations that it's had its fun and there will be no further strikes. As Daniel Greenfield concludes:

This is not the actual Iranian attack.

This is the 'attack' prearranged for show between Iran and the Biden administration through backchannels.
https://www.steynonline.com/14200/when-the-dust-settles
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #141 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm:
So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?


You can't confiscate your own land (quotation marks or not).

That's just your brain damage in evidence; the confiscation happened when Jews among the "locals" (note the quotation marks...)  were supported by zionists who drove many Palestinians out of the proposed Israeli state - Palestinians being a majority  among the "locals" before their forced expulsion -  a direct  result of incompetent UN management of the Partition. 

Quote:
That is not what the UN does. It cannot force Muslims to create a functioning state instead of devoting their efforts towards slaughtering Jews.


Wrong on both counts.

The UN can create states, and indeed proposed the creation of two states in the Palestine Mandate Area.

And it SHOULD enforce security in the proposed 2 states, since lizard brains  have the upper hand  in both states.

(No doubt you will claim you aren't a lizard brain...)

Quote:
Am I correct that your problem is not with Israel's existence, it is with the UN not setting up a second state alongside it?


Correct, with  jail for  evil-doers on either side. 

Quote:
Sigh. I am asking you about the reality, not your fantasy.


So sayeth the lizard brain with his subjective reality/ shared belief delusion.

Quote:
Does this higher authority actually exist? Are you referring to your insistence that the USA intervenes?


1. No

2. Yes; ie, intervene  along with the other UNSC members, to enforce securty among the lizard brains on either side.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #142 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:16pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm:
[quote]Am I correct that your problem is not with Israel's existence, it is with the UN not setting up a second state alongside it?


Correct, with  jail for  evil-doers on either side. 





How many offers of statehood have the Pallos rejected since 1947?

Five or six?

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Reply #143 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:27pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:45pm:
So the problem started by the Jews accepting the UN resolution and Muslims starting a war instead.



(sigh) Yes; of course the Jews accepted the UN Partition resolution - because they were gaining  sovereignty over other people's confiscated land...what's not to like...."what are we waiting for",  said one zionist leader after the vote.

Quote:
And that is the UNSC's fault because they didn't stop the lizard-brained, individual sovereignty Muslims from starting a war despite the clearly expressed will of the UN for common prosperity and peaceful coexistence in the Middle East.
.

Yes,  it is the UNSC's fault for not preventing the unilateral declaration of Israel by Zionists.

Quote:
You talk some really self-contradictory, hare-brained crap.


Refuted above; lizard brains will have trouble understanding the concept of an effective international rules-based order.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #144 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:37pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:16pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm:
[quote]Am I correct that your problem is not with Israel's existence, it is with the UN not setting up a second state alongside it?


Correct, with  jail for  evil-doers on either side. 





How many offers of statehood have the Pallos rejected since 1947?

Five or six?



Lizard brains on either side want all of Palestine "from the river to the sea".

Hence no "agreement among the parties" - providing a cover for Israel and the US, the stronger side, to keep pushing  the Palestinian  state into the future, while the divided UNSC remains unable to act, courtesy of the veto.    
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Reply #145 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:42pm
 
chimera wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 1:04pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:22pm:
  effective international rules-based order.

Yes the final soution is the Chinese Peoples' Military Province of Palestine-Israel. With naval order in the Western China Sea.


Wrong . China wants to see international peace, while it  develops common prosperity in its own economy.

The Taiwan issue is none of your business.
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Reply #146 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:43pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:54pm:
boo hoo

so the poor old palestinians got displaced


Yes.

boo hoo?




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Reply #147 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:47pm
 
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:19pm:
"establishing an  effective international rules-based order."

Done a great job there so far...................................


Earth to graps: the viability of our species is in question here; in the age of MAD, the risks of NOT having an effective rules-based order loom large.
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Reply #148 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:07pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:42pm:
China wants to see international peace, while it  develops common prosperity in its own economy.
The Taiwan issue is none of your business.

Thank you so very much. Lovely! 'peace' > 'none of your business'.
Philippines, Australia, India will be under the elegantly simple CHINA RULES!
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Reply #149 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:07pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:27pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 2:45pm:
So the problem started by the Jews accepting the UN resolution and Muslims starting a war instead.



(sigh) Yes; of course the Jews accepted the UN Partition resolution - because they were gaining  sovereignty over other people's confiscated land...what's not to like...."what are we waiting for",  said one zionist leader after the vote.

Quote:
And that is the UNSC's fault because they didn't stop the lizard-brained, individual sovereignty Muslims from starting a war despite the clearly expressed will of the UN for common prosperity and peaceful coexistence in the Middle East.
.

Yes,  it is the UNSC's fault for not preventing the unilateral declaration of Israel by Zionists.

Quote:
You talk some really self-contradictory, hare-brained crap.


Refuted above; lizard brains will have trouble understanding the concept of an effective international rules-based order.


Cheesy Cheesy
The UN VOTED to establish Israel AND and Arab state next to it.
The Jews accepted the rules based decision, the Arabs didn't but started a war instead.
But all that is the UN's fault and the Jews' fault for accepting the UN vote and following the rules an dc th ed Arabs ar e the injured party for not accepting the UN rules but starting a war instead.

You are an idiot. Whose fault is that??
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #150 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:32pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm:
So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?


You can't confiscate your own land (quotation marks or not).

That's just your brain damage in evidence; the confiscation happened when Jews among the "locals" (note the quotation marks...)  were supported by zionists who drove many Palestinians out of the proposed Israeli state - Palestinians being a majority  among the "locals" before their forced expulsion -  a direct  result of incompetent UN management of the Partition. 


A huge number of Muslims voluntarily left Israel as it was being created, on the assumption that their fellow Muslims would come back and wipe out the Jews and give them their properties back.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
Quote:
Does this higher authority actually exist? Are you referring to your insistence that the USA intervenes?


1. No

2. Yes; ie, intervene  along with the other UNSC members, to enforce securty among the lizard brains on either side.


So you think the USA is a higher authority than the UN and they should set up a functioning state for the Palestinians?

What makes you think they would be any better than the Israelis at ensuring security? And why is the obligation on them?

And how can you identify that higher authority so easily in the same breath as insisting it does not exist?
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Reply #151 - Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:32pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 12:27pm:
So the locals "confiscated" their own land? Who from?


You can't confiscate your own land (quotation marks or not).

That's just your brain damage in evidence; the confiscation happened when Jews among the "locals" (note the quotation marks...)  were supported by zionists who drove many Palestinians out of the proposed Israeli state - Palestinians being a majority  among the "locals" before their forced expulsion -  a direct  result of incompetent UN management of the Partition. 


A huge number of Muslims voluntarily left Israel as it was being created, on the assumption that their fellow Muslims would come back and wipe out the Jews and give them their properties back.




"With the birth of the State of Israel, over 850,000 Jews were forced from Arab Lands and Iran. The desperate refugees were welcomed by Israel."



The Arabs, on the other hand, have been farming the Pallos in 'refugee camps' ever since.


Millions of Germans and Slavs were displaced after WWII. European borders were redrawn, populations expelled and absorbed.

Millions more were shuffled around with the partition of India. Th ed New World absorbed millions of displaced refugees.

But Muslims cannot bring themselves to welcome their Palestinian bruvvers and sistas and settle them and make peace with Israel and each other. Jihad uber alles, to coin a phrase.

The Muslims conquered the whole of North Africa and the Eastern Roman Empire, the Persian Empire and the north of India. But for the Jews to have Jewdea - Israel is about half the size of Tasmania  - well, the Hamerse Muslims can't bear the idea.
You can't negotiate with fanatical dickheaddles  like that.


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #152 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 9:59am
 
chimera wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:07pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 4:42pm:
China wants to see international peace, while it  develops common prosperity in its own economy.
The Taiwan issue is none of your business.

Thank you so very much. Lovely! 'peace' > 'none of your business'.
Philippines, Australia, India will be under the elegantly simple CHINA RULES!


Taiwan is none of those nations'  business either. Taiwan is part of China, which the UN recoginizes.

Just as 'peace' within your nation is none of my business; though sorting out your own internal squabbles may require  intervention by an international body - as opposed to other nations' interventions on ideological grounds - to solve  the problem. 
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Reply #153 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:10am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:32pm:
A huge number of Muslims voluntarily left Israel as it was being created,


Laughable....

Next.

Quote:
So you think the USA is a higher authority than the UN and they should set up a functioning state for the Palestinians?


(sigh) No, I think the UN should be a higher authority than the US which is blocking the Palestinian state. (UN res 242 woud have been implemented by the UN by 1968, except for the US's UNSC veto). 

Next.

Quote:
What makes you think they would be any better than the Israelis at ensuring security? And why is the obligation on them?


Wrong premise, as noted above.

Next. 

Quote:
And how can you identify that higher authority so easily in the same breath as insisting it does not exist?


By noting the requirement to eliminate the UNSC veto.

Next.....
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #154 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:34am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:10am:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:32pm:
A huge number of Muslims voluntarily left Israel as it was being created,


Laughable....


Also, the Arab Liberation Army systematically evacuated them from wherever they hoped to set up military strongholds from which to slaughter Jews.

Quote:
No, I think the UN should be a higher authority than the US which is blocking the Palestinian state. (UN res 242 woud have been implemented by the UN by 1968, except for the US's UNSC veto).


You do realise that a piece of paper does not make a state exist, right?

Quote:
Wrong premise, as noted above.


What army does the UN have?
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Reply #155 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:40am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:10am:
[

(sigh) No, I think the UN should be a higher authority than the US which is blocking the Palestinian state. (UN res 242 woud have been implemented by the UN by 1968, except for the US's UNSC veto). 

Next.




Next... You are an ignorant, blowhard idiot. It was the Palllos who rejected it, fathead, not the UNSC or the US.



United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the UN Charter.[1]


The day after Resolution 242 was adopted, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) rejected it as "fundamentally and gravely inconsistent with the Arab character of Palestine, the essence of the Palestine cause and the right of the Palestinian people to their homeland." and "disappoints the hopes of the Arab nation and ignores its national aspirations [... and] ignores the existence of the Palestinian people and their right of self-determination."
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Reply #156 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:55am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:34am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:10am:
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 5:32pm:
A huge number of Muslims voluntarily left Israel as it was being created,


Laughable....


Also, the Arab Liberation Army systematically evacuated them from wherever they hoped to set up military strongholds from which to slaughter Jews.


Laughable, next

Quote:
tgd:
No, I think the UN should be a higher authority than the US which is blocking the Palestinian state. (UN res 242 woud have been implemented by the UN by 1968, except for the US's UNSC veto).


You do realise that a piece of paper does not make a state exist, right?
 

I do realize you brain is crippled by fake 'individual rights'/freedom" ideology, as shown above;  your statement bears no relationship to the comment to which you imagined you were replying.

Quote:
What army does the UN have?


Nations need police forces to deal with criminals individuals.

Whereas under an effective international rules based order, nations don't need armies, since the UNSC would possess the sole "army".   

Spot the difference?   
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #157 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:57am
 
Quote:
since the UNSC would possess the sole "army".
 

Grin

Meanwhile, back on planet earth, the Jews are still trying to stop the Muslims from slaughtering them.
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Reply #158 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 11:36am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 10:57am:
tgd:
since the UNSC would possess the sole "army".
 

Grin


Your inability to address the issues re police versus armies,  and national versus international security noted.

As to be expected from  a deluded "individual freedom"/ individual rights" ideologue.

Quote:
Meanwhile, back on planet earth
...

with lizard brains still in command...

Quote:
the Jews are still trying to stop the Muslims from slaughtering them.


Of course, while Netanyahu has said there will be no Palestinian state.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #159 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm
 
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council. And you expect us to take you seriously when you suggest they should be running the only army in the world. That is no les idiotic than expecting people to trust the CCP after they rewarded rather than punished leaders for killing about 100 million Chinese people, on top of letting the Japanese kill and rape their way across China.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #160 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).

Quote:
And you expect us to take you seriously when you suggest they should be running the only army in the world.


Addressed above. The viability of the  human species is being increasingly brought into question by more and more people around the world, as economic and political disasters cause ever more chaos.

The maintenance of individual armies with control over weapons of mass destruction is unviable and unsustainable.

Quote:
That is no les idiotic than expecting people to trust the CCP after they rewarded rather than punished leaders for killing about 100 million Chinese people, on top of letting the Japanese kill and rape their way across China.


You are confused. What the CCP did last century  isn't relevant to how the UN must reform now. 


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Reply #161 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).





So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?

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Reply #162 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.

The lizard brain in all of us would quickly be exposed as the culprit which is preventing action "to save mankind from the scourge of war" (UN Charter preamble).
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #163 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:17pm
 
Quote:
You are confused. What the CCP did last century  isn't relevant to how the UN must reform now.


It is relevant. You consistently choose the worst possible option. You expect people to trust the CCP after they rewarded rather than punished leaders for killing about 100 million Chinese people, on top of letting the Japanese kill and rape their way across China. This behaviour is not limited to last century. They managed another colossal bugger-up with covid that cost huge numbers of lives, and again they are trying to BS their way out of it while patting themselves on the back, and we have to wait until they have a corpse to blame it on before they even admit it was an "administrative error". The behaviour of last century is firmly embedded in the culture of the CCP. That's what happens when you allow leaders to get away with killing millions - they keep doing it.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #164 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?

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Reply #165 - Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:14pm
 
You just need to fill out the right forms and trust the CCP to take care of everything.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #166 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:23am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:17pm:
Quote:
You are confused. What the CCP did last century  isn't relevant to how the UN must reform now.


It is relevant. You consistently choose the worst possible option.


UN reform is  independent of CCP policy.

Quote:
You expect people to trust the CCP


No I don't, I expect people to work to reform the UN, by waking up to the lizard brain in all of us which is the  barrier to UN reform.

Meaning  your "subjective reality/shared belief" delusions will need to be exposed for what they are: the self-interested nonsense of naturally competitive, self-interested individuals who  would rather not submit to rule of law which of necessity limits individual  political and cultural 'sovereignty' and 'freedom'.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #167 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:36am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:14pm:
You just need to fill out the right forms and trust the CCP to take care of everything.

And NO admin errors this time, right?  We don't want another 40 million dead due to an admin error. The paperwork must be korrekt at all times.


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Reply #168 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #169 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...
The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.

So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #170 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #171 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.

The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.

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« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:39pm by Frank »  

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #172 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 1:09pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.


The flaw in your argument is the UN  failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan. 


Quote:
The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.


"Not then" - correct; but "not since" - more complicated; the Arabs would have accepted UN res 242 in 1967, and Yasser Arafat would have signed up, including East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine. 

The US's UNSC veto prevented it.


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Reply #173 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 2:10pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 1:09pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.


The flaw in your argument is the UN  failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan. 


Quote:
The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.





The Muslims started the wars in 1948 and again in 1967  DESPITE the UN resolution to create the two states.  The Muslims simply do not accept the UN resolution that endorsed the creation of two states, one Jewish, one Muslim. Note, the UN did not create Israel, it simply endorsed the creation of the two states. The Jews accepted it, the Muslims went to war.

The UN couldn't force anyone, it has never had the moral or military power to 'implement' anything, regardless of security council veto. Only member states can implement UN resolutions, supply peace keepers or militarily enforce they will, supported or not by the UN.


The Muslims have not been acting in good faith because they have not accepted Israel's right to exist or the UN's jurisdiction to endorse the creation of two states. They want a Judenfrei Muslim middle East.


Your endless waffle about UNSC veto is totally irrelevant. You never once shown how it has ANY relevance to the creation of Israel in 1948, to the armistice in 1949 or to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #174 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 3:18pm
 
WHAT?  You expect either an informed Woke perspective or an informed Conservative perspective?

Where you bin, Laden?  The secret de jour is to NOT be informed... but to be biased and uninformed in forming a view .... how would our politics and social interactions in Australia and the Rest of The West get along if people were actually informed....??

An informed people is a dangerous people, armed with knowledge and understanding - the very worst enemy of government.... all those billions spent turning out savants in Aboriginal Mathematics and Aboriginal Calendars who cannot read or write or add up or invent a stick with a stone head ... and you expect an 'informed' society?

Where the hell you bin hidin', Biden?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #175 - Apr 17th, 2024 at 6:06pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.


The USA has continually condemned many Dictators 'over-the-table' and on Media (the 'Show') while funding and supporting them 'under-the-table', even putting them in place (to keep their nations 'weak' for US National Security).
...like they do here via the Prime Ministers - like Albanese and Juliar Gillard, unlike Rudd who wouldn't tow the line to the USA so we know what happened to him, eh. Wink

So who cares what a corrupt 'Media-Mafia' Privatised Political nation like the USA says? It will undermine anything International for its own selfish gain.
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Reply #176 - Apr 18th, 2024 at 1:15pm
 
National Conservatism Conference: Police told to shut down right-wing Brussels event

Brussels police were ordered to shut down a conference for right-wing politicians, including Brexiteer Nigel Farage and Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban, on Tuesday.

People were stopped from entering the National Conservatism Conference a few hours after it began, organisers said - although it continued for those inside.

The local mayor said he issued the order to ensure public security.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68826577

The local mayor?  Step forward, Emir Kir. A socialist Turk.




The move to shut down the conference was also criticised by Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo, who called it "unacceptable". "Banning political meetings is unconstitutional. Full stop," Mr De Croo wrote on X.




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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #177 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 3:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 2:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 1:09pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?



By continuing the process already started in the UN:

"The "enormous influence of the veto power" has been cited as a cause of the UN's ineffectiveness in preventing and responding to genocide, violence, and human rights violations.[47] Various countries outside the permanent members, such as the Non-Aligned Movement and African Union, have proposed limitations on the veto power.[48] Reform of the veto power is often included in proposals for reforming the Security Council."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power#:~:text...


The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.


The flaw in your argument is the UN  failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan. 


Quote:
The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.





The Muslims started the wars in 1948 and again in 1967  DESPITE the UN resolution to create the two states.


The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states, not to let one side force its own way when the other side (naturally) objected to the partition of their land.   

The UN patently failed to create the two states; Israel should never have been recognized WITHOUT the creation of the Palestinian state as well.   

Quote:
The UN couldn't force anyone, it has never had the moral or military power to 'implement' anything,



Because your delusional "national sovereignty" ideology rendered the UN powerless to maintian the peace  - by force when necessary; just as a police force within a nation has to maintain the peace by force, to avoid chaos. 

Quote:
regardless of security council veto. Only member states can implement UN resolutions, supply peace keepers or militarily enforce they will, supported or not by the UN.


Addressed above; the veto renders the UNSC incapable of maintaining peace between belligerents, whereas as a national police force CAN establish peace - by force - between warring criminal gangs within a nation.   


Quote:
The Muslims have not been acting in good faith because they have not accepted Israel's right to exist or the UN's jurisdiction to endorse the creation of two states. They want a Judenfrei Muslim middle East.


Correct (but see above, Israel should not have been recognized without recognition of the Palestinian state). 

Quote:
Your endless waffle about UNSC veto is totally irrelevant. You never once shown how it has ANY relevance to the creation of Israel in 1948, to the armistice in 1949 or to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan.


Addressed and refuted above. Let me know when you are ready to establish effective international law, capable of over-riding anachronistic 'national sovereignty'. 
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Reply #178 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 3:51pm
 
Quote:
The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states


No state has ever been created by a committee or a piece of paper. It was intended to sanction the creation of two states. It still requires someone, usually the locals, to actually do something about it.
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Reply #179 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 4:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Quote:
The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states


No state has ever been created by a committee or a piece of paper.


Er...even Frank noted the UN granted itself the right to  create states. 

Quote:
It was intended to sanction the creation of two states.


Which means ...create two states.


Quote:
It still requires someone, usually the locals, to actually do something about it.


Sure,  in your delusional national sovereingty/ "individual freedom" ideology which rejects establishing effective international law. 
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Reply #180 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 4:25pm
 
Quote:
Er...even Frank noted the UN granted itself the right to  create states.


I hearby grant myself the right to create states.

See how easy that was?

Quote:
Which means ...create two states.


Do you understand the difference between sanction an action and acting?

Quote:
Sure,  in your delusional national sovereingty/ "individual freedom" ideology which rejects establishing effective international law.


No. I mean in reality. States don't come into existence by virtue of having the paperwork in order. It is your delusion that having the paperwork in order makes them magically pop into existence.
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Reply #181 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 5:05pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 3:46pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 2:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 1:09pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 11:42am:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:58am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17th, 2024 at 10:52am:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 4:11pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 2:02pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 16th, 2024 at 1:49pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1712872603/160#160 date=1713238987][quote author=freediver link=1712872603/159#159 date=1713234204]The UN put Iran in as the chair of the human rights council.


I agree - madness: however, sorry to inform you the UN's madness results from your delusional 'individual rights/individual sovereigtny' ideology which crippled the UN from its inception (including the UNSC veto).


So if not by bringing together individual, sovereign nations to form the United Nations - then how would you bring the world together?


By instituting examination in the UNGA of necessary UN reform, including the need to eliminate the UNSC veto.




How is that to be done?

The resolution to create Israel AND an Arab state next to is was not vetoed.


Because the Arab world wasn't represented in the UNSC.   

Quote:
So what is the relevance of the veto power in the case of Israel and Hamarse?


The US alone  has consistently vetoed  resolutions condemning Israel, since 1967.

Quote:
You are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree.


Refuted above.

There was NO security council role in the vote for the creation of TWO states.


The flaw in your argument is the UN  failed to implement its Partiton Plan in full, and since 1967 the US has used its UNSC veto to prevent implementation of the Plan. 


Quote:
The Arabs simply did not accept to play by the rules, not then, not since.





The Muslims started the wars in 1948 and again in 1967  DESPITE the UN resolution to create the two states.


The UN Partition resolution was intended to create two states, not to let one side force its own way when the other side (naturally) objected to the partition of their land.   

The UN patently failed to create the two states; Israel should never have been recognized WITHOUT the creation of the Palestinian state as well.   

Quote:
The UN couldn't force anyone, it has never had the moral or military power to 'implement' anything,



Because your delusional "national sovereignty" ideology rendered the UN powerless to maintian the peace  - by force when necessary; just as a police force within a nation has to maintain the peace by force, to avoid chaos. 

Quote:
regardless of security council veto. Only member states can implement UN resolutions, supply peace keepers or militarily enforce they will, supported or not by the UN.


Addressed above; the veto renders the UNSC incapable of maintaining peace between belligerents, whereas as a national police force CAN establish peace - by force - between warring criminal gangs within a nation.   


Quote:
The Muslims have not been acting in good faith because they have not accepted Israel's right to exist or the UN's jurisdiction to endorse the creation of two states. They want a Judenfrei Muslim middle East.


Correct (but see above, Israel should not have been recognized without recognition of the Palestinian state). 

Quote:
Your endless waffle about UNSC veto is totally irrelevant. You never once shown how it has ANY relevance to the creation of Israel in 1948, to the armistice in 1949 or to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan.


Addressed and refuted above. Let me know when you are ready to establish effective international law, capable of over-riding anachronistic 'national sovereignty'. 

You have not demonstrated, ever, how the UNSC veto powers have any relevance to the creation of Israel.
You have not demonstrated, ever, how the UN could have its own military force, how it could create states, or prevent the creation of states.
You just repeat irrelevant non sequiturs and declare them 'refuted above. Ludicrous. It is like debating a 3 year old obcessive-compulsive with severely restricted vocab and retarded comprehension.



The UN resolution approved the creation of Israel and an Arab state alongside it.
The Jews accepted the approval and created a state (NB. the UN did not create it) while the Arabs did not accept the approval and the Jews' creation of their own state so they did not similarly create an Arab state but went to war instead.
Note also that it was the existing sovereign Arab states that went to war against the Jews. They went against the UN resolution.
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Reply #182 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 4:25pm:
Quote:
Er...even Frank noted the UN granted itself the right to  create states.


I hearby grant myself the right to create states.

See how easy that was?


Ere...you are not an agreed upon institution (the UN)  with a Charter to which all nations are signed up. 

Quote:
Which means ...create two states.


Quote:
Do you understand the difference between sanction an action and acting?


Yes. The  vote to partiton Palestine - passed by a majorty - envisioned two states. Sanction is your word.

Quote:
No. I mean in reality. States don't come into existence by virtue of having the paperwork in order.
 

You mean your 'subjective reality'.....oh dear...

Addressed above. The Charter was agreed and signed, though your delusional - or rather, anachronistic and obsolete  national sovereignty ideology -  forced the veto into the UNSC, rendering it useless and incapable of "saving mankind from the scourge of war". 

Quote:
It is your delusion that having the paperwork in order makes them magically pop into existence.


Refuted above; re delusions, don't look in the mirror unless you want a trip to Bunnings.
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Reply #183 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:17pm
 
Quote:
You mean your 'subjective reality'.....oh dear...


No. I mean objective reality. States don't come into existence by virtue of having the paperwork in order.

Quote:
The Charter was agreed and signed


And the signing of the charter made absolutely no difference to the reality on the ground in Israel.
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Reply #184 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:32pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 5:05pm:
You have not demonstrated, ever, how the UNSC veto powers have any relevance to the creation of Israel.
You have not demonstrated, ever, how the UN could have its own military force, how it could create states, or prevent the creation of states.
You just repeat irrelevant non sequiturs and declare them 'refuted above. Ludicrous.


I disagree, but let's read on, maybe we can expose your errors: 

Quote:
The UN resolution approved the creation of Israel and an Arab state alongside it.


Correct. 

Quote:
The Jews accepted the approval and created a state


The Jews had/have no right to  'create a state'; after 1946, only the UN can do it, under international law. 

Quote:
(NB. the UN did not create it)


Correct - and the UN should have refused recognition of Israel, without simultaneous recognition of Palestine with necessary security supplied by the UNSC.   

Quote:
while the Arabs did not accept the approval and the Jews' creation of their own state so they did not similarly create an Arab state but went to war instead.


Naturally the Arabs rejected Israel, which was carved out of Muslim lands, resulting in Muslims being expelled from their homes by Jewish forces in the ensuing battles.    

Quote:
Note also that it was the existing sovereign Arab states that went to war against the Jews. They went against the UN resolution.


Correct, as addressed above.




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Reply #185 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:17pm:
Quote:
You mean your 'subjective reality'.....oh dear...


No. I mean objective reality.


You are confused between objective and subjective,  as your following comment proves:

Quote:
States don't come into existence by virtue of having the paperwork in order.


The UN  "paperwork" was never "in order" - though it certainly existed -  because the necessary security arrangements were stuffed by your obsolete 'national sovereignty' ideology. Last time I looked, the Oz Constitution was written on paper. The difference is the supra-national UN role,  under internationl law.

Quote:
And the signing of the charter made absolutely no difference to the reality on the ground in Israel.


Addressed above. Israel unilaterally  proclaimed its existance after the UN Charter was signed, an illegal act under the Charter. 
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Reply #186 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:49pm
 
Quote:
The UN  "paperwork" was never "in order" - though it certainly existed -  because the necessary security arrangements were stuffed


Are you saying the "paperwork was not in order" because of the absence of a real life army moving in and actually doing it?

Quote:
Last time I looked, the Oz Constitution was written on paper.


That by itself means absolutely nothing.
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Reply #187 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 7:36pm
 
Quote:
The Jews had/have no right to  'create a state'; after 1946, only the UN can do it,  under international law.*


The UN approved the creation of the two states side by side.
The Jews accepted the UN's resolution, the Arabs didn't.
On what basis do you say the Jews had no right to create a state along the approved UN lines?

What other international law requirement was missing?

The approval of Muslims who have been hellbent on wiping them out since the 7th century, in accordance with they creed that says there will be peace only when all the Jews are killed by Muslims?



* Give us ONE example where the UN created a state, you eyewateringly stupid ijit, and the international law that empowers it to do so.
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Reply #188 - Apr 24th, 2024 at 8:13pm
 
I think the Moslems have been fighting Christians for so long as their justified reason to exist.

That fighting Jews coming up from behind (and within) is something that they're really not up for.
Israel was more than happy to 'war' with Iran (despite all the American Propaganda experts saying 'no way' to hide the fact that Israel is more 'military' in culture, than the USA is).
And as you saw - Iran 'backed down' and made excuses. Obviously realising Israel isn't afraid of 'death and anihilation'... a path that Islam is yet to experience.

The 'Empire' of Israel is rising!
The Empire of Islam is falling.


Suck it up!  Grin
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Reply #189 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 8:06am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 15th, 2024 at 9:09am:
Hamas escapes almost all accountability for a war it started in a malicious act of depravity

It beggars belief that even the terrorists of Hamas and other organisations of similar bent, could engage in the murder and abuse of innocents as we now know for certain occurred on October 7.

Take for example the people attending the rock concert, dedicated to peace.

Murder, rape and kidnapping were the consequences of Hamas crossing the border.

...

US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, put this clearly on April 9 last: “It remains astounding to me that the world is almost deafeningly silent when it comes to Hamas”.  The terrorists are never taken before international courts, nor is its leadership ever brought to book and held responsible.




"If I were a Palestinian, I'd occasionally wonder what I had to do to get a bad press."

Just so.
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Reply #190 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 10:39am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:49pm:
Are you saying the "paperwork was not in order" because of the absence of a real life army moving in and actually doing it?


Yes, ie, because the "real life army" ie,  the "army" representing combined UNSC security force had not been created.

Quote:
That by itself means absolutely nothing.


You are the one bleating about "paperwork".

Are you saying it's impossible to create international law?
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Reply #191 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 10:46am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 10:39am:
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:49pm:
Are you saying the "paperwork was not in order" because of the absence of a real life army moving in and actually doing it?


Yes, ie, because the "real life army" ie,  the "army" representing combined UNSC security force had not been created.

Quote:
That by itself means absolutely nothing.


You are the one bleating about "paperwork".

Are you saying it's impossible to create international law?


I am saying you can create all the international law you want, but if cannot project the authority to enforce it then it is meaningless, just like the UN resolutions were meaningless for the Israelis when they set up their new state. Their actions happened to be consistent with it, given that both the Israelis and the UN had a little common sense, but you can hardly blame the Israelis for a functioning state of palestine not magically popping into existence at the stroke of the pen.
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Reply #192 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:15am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 7:36pm:
Quote:
The Jews had/have no right to  'create a state'; after 1946, only the UN can do it,  under international law.*


The UN approved the creation of the two states side by side.


Correct

Quote:
The Jews accepted the UN's resolution, the Arabs didn't.


Correct.

Quote:
On what basis do you say the Jews had no right to create a state along the approved UN lines?


On the basis only the UN itself can create states; in this case, the UN planned two states; the plan was not for one state enforcing its existance on land belonging to other people through war,  but by the UN itself enforcing the creation of two states.  The fact the UN didn't have the military capability to do that is another story (inc. the UNSC veto).   

Quote:
What other international law requirement was missing?


Th security enforcement mechanism; it's still missing which is why international affairs are still f**ked today.

Quote:
The approval of Muslims who have been hellbent on wiping them out since the 7th century, in accordance with they creed that says there will be peace only when all the Jews are killed by Muslims?


Inaccurate statement: the Arabs in the 7th century followed the Koranic injunction to kill ALL infidels.

Israel had long ceased to exist; and according to Muhammad, Jews and Christians had turned away from the OT prophets of god. Christians even claimed Christ WAS god - a sacrilege..... 

Quote:
Give us ONE example where the UN created a state, you eyewateringly stupid ijit, and the international law that empowers it to do so.


You must understand,   interntional law is nascent at this stage. 

Re the UN's ability to create a state:

https://kentlaw.iit.edu/

The UN Security Council does not have the legal capacity to create states. This legal statement however does not exclude the possibility that the member states ...

Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall  or something, but you get the jist.
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Reply #193 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:18am
 
Quote:
On the basis only the UN itself can create states


Under international law you cannot force people to be stateless. Yet that is what would happen if you insisted the locals could not "create a state" until the UN did.

In any case I am pretty sure you understanding of the international law is wrong.

Quote:
Th security enforcement mechanism; it's still missing which is why international affairs are still f**ked today.


So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?
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Reply #194 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:25am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 10:46am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 10:39am:
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 6:49pm:
Are you saying the "paperwork was not in order" because of the absence of a real life army moving in and actually doing it?


Yes, ie, because the "real life army" ie,  the "army" representing combined UNSC security force had not been created.

Quote:
That by itself means absolutely nothing.


You are the one bleating about "paperwork".

Are you saying it's impossible to create international law?


I am saying you can create all the international law you want, but if cannot project the authority to enforce it then it is meaningless,


Remarkable, we are in agreement. 

Quote:
just like the UN resolutions were meaningless for the Israelis when they set up their new state.


....BECAUSE the UNSC cannot "project the authority to enforce the law".

... because of YOUR outdated 'national sovereigty/ individual "freedom"  ideology.   Ouch. 



Quote:
Their actions happened to be consistent with it, given that both the Israelis and the UN had a little common sense,


No, the Zionists were self-interested, and the UN was incompetent, as noted above.
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Reply #195 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:27am
 
So all of your accusations against Israel are really nothing to do with Israel, they are just a segue into your whinge about the UN not having it's own army, or the only army?

Quote:
No, the Zionists were self-interested


To this day they have a strong interest in not being slaughtered for being Jewish. You make it sound like that is a bad thing.
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Reply #196 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:18am:
Under international law you cannot force people to be stateless.


That's what the Netanyahu Cabinet is doing.


Quote:
Yet that is what would happen if you insisted the locals could not "create a state" until the UN did.


Nice one: a people can say they "deserve" a state, and then proceed to take other people's land by force.

Quote:
In any case I am pretty sure you understanding of the international law is wrong.


Addressed in my previous two posts.

Quote:
So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?


Yes. 
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Reply #197 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:39am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
Quote:
So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?


Yes. 


The mind boggles. It's no surprise you support the CCP, despite them starving 50 million people to death through an "administrative error" and rewarding the leaders responsible.

Do you have any idea how absurd you sound?
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Reply #198 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:39am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
Quote:
So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?


Yes. 


The mind boggles. It's no surprise you support the CCP, despite them starving 50 million people to death through an "administrative error" and rewarding the leaders responsible.


Nonsense, you lying (or low IQ) ideologue....

Quote:
Do you have any idea how absurd you sound?


I know you are incapable of debating the issues - which is why you grabbed hold of my answer to your final (typical) GIGO question, rather than addressing the earlier points I made in that post.

Not surprinsing from a delusional "individual freedom" ideologue who thinks  "shared belief"/"subjective reality" = objective reality.

Delusion: (def.)  a fixed false belief not amenable to external evidence.

Deplorable - a prize example of the "human condition" resulting in your "freedom or death"  absurd ideological monstrosities. 

"All must submit to rule of law, for all to be free": Cicero.   
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #199 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:46pm
 
I am not sure what there is left to debate. I feel like I am resorting to  argumentum ad absurdum, except you keep agreeing with me.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #200 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:53pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
I am not sure what there is left to debate. I feel like I am resorting to  argumentum ad absurdum, except you keep agreeing with me.


Keep agreeing with you?

In my #196, I refuted every point you made, apart from your final misconstued question with which I agreed: there is no effective international law at this stage.  
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #201 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:15am:
Frank wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 7:36pm:
Quote:
The Jews had/have no right to  'create a state'; after 1946, only the UN can do it,  under international law.*


The UN approved the creation of the two states side by side.


Correct

Quote:
The Jews accepted the UN's resolution, the Arabs didn't.


Correct.

Quote:
On what basis do you say the Jews had no right to create a state along the approved UN lines?


On the basis only the UN itself can create states; in this case, the UN planned two states; the plan was not for one state enforcing its existance on land belonging to other people through war,  but by the UN itself enforcing the creation of two states.  The fact the UN didn't have the military capability to do that is another story (inc. the UNSC veto).   

Quote:
What other international law requirement was missing?


Th security enforcement mechanism; it's still missing which is why international affairs are still f**ked today.

Quote:
The approval of Muslims who have been hellbent on wiping them out since the 7th century, in accordance with they creed that says there will be peace only when all the Jews are killed by Muslims?


Inaccurate statement: the Arabs in the 7th century followed the Koranic injunction to kill ALL infidels.

Israel had long ceased to exist; and according to Muhammad, Jews and Christians had turned away from the OT prophets of god. Christians even claimed Christ WAS god - a sacrilege..... 

Quote:
Give us ONE example where the UN created a state, you eyewateringly stupid ijit, and the international law that empowers it to do so.


You must understand,   interntional law is nascent at this stage. 

Re the UN's ability to create a state:

https://kentlaw.iit.edu/

The UN Security Council does not have the legal capacity to create states. This legal statement however does not exclude the possibility that the member states ...

Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall  or something, but you get the jist.

So the UN DIDN'T have the ability to create states then and doesn't have the ability now, 75 years later. But the Jews should have waited.

You are an idiot. And absurd, stupid idiot.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #202 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm
 
Quote:
Keep agreeing with you?


Only when I accuse you of saying the most absurd things.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
Quote:
So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?

Yes. 

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #203 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:04pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:15am:
Frank wrote on Apr 24th, 2024 at 7:36pm:
Quote:
The Jews had/have no right to  'create a state'; after 1946, only the UN can do it,  under international law.*


The UN approved the creation of the two states side by side.


Correct

Quote:
The Jews accepted the UN's resolution, the Arabs didn't.


Correct.

Quote:
On what basis do you say the Jews had no right to create a state along the approved UN lines?


On the basis only the UN itself can create states; in this case, the UN planned two states; the plan was not for one state enforcing its existance on land belonging to other people through war,  but by the UN itself enforcing the creation of two states.  The fact the UN didn't have the military capability to do that is another story (inc. the UNSC veto).   

Quote:
What other international law requirement was missing?


Th security enforcement mechanism; it's still missing which is why international affairs are still f**ked today.

Quote:
The approval of Muslims who have been hellbent on wiping them out since the 7th century, in accordance with they creed that says there will be peace only when all the Jews are killed by Muslims?


Inaccurate statement: the Arabs in the 7th century followed the Koranic injunction to kill ALL infidels.

Israel had long ceased to exist; and according to Muhammad, Jews and Christians had turned away from the OT prophets of god. Christians even claimed Christ WAS god - a sacrilege..... 

Quote:
Give us ONE example where the UN created a state, you eyewateringly stupid ijit, and the international law that empowers it to do so.


You must understand,   interntional law is nascent at this stage. 

Re the UN's ability to create a state:

https://kentlaw.iit.edu/

The UN Security Council does not have the legal capacity to create states. This legal statement however does not exclude the possibility that the member states ...

Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall  or something, but you get the jist.


So the UN DIDN'T have the ability to create states then and doesn't have the ability now, 75 years later.


Did you miss it?: "This legal statement however does not exclude the possibility that the member states"...(may authorize the UN to create new states).

Quote:
But the Jews should have waited.


Of course, rather than go to war with people who objected to their land (Palestine mandate land) being  confiscated to create a new state.   

Quote:
You are an idiot. And absurd, stupid idiot.


See my reply to FD; you are suffering the same delusions as him.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #204 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm:
Quote:
Keep agreeing with you?


Only when I accuse you of saying the most absurd things.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
[quote]So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?

Yes. 


I agreed  with your ideologically misconstrued question; while noting an individual group cannot set up a UN sanctioned state by themselves when another group objects. Only the UNSC can adjudicate the matter - except that the UNSC is rendered powerless by your "individual freedom" delusions.

Catch-22.



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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #205 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:13pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:12pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm:
Quote:
Keep agreeing with you?


Only when I accuse you of saying the most absurd things.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
[quote]So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?

Yes. 


I agreed  with your ideologically misconstrued question; while noting an individual group cannot set up a UN sanctioned state by themselves when another group objects. Only the UNSC can adjudicate the matter - except that the UNSC is rendered powerless by your "individual freedom" delusions.

Catch-22.






This "another group" being the Muslims who object in principle to Israel's existence?

Are you just making up rules as you go along?

Also, what is an "individual group"?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #206 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:27am:
So all of your accusations against Israel are really nothing to do with Israel, they are just a segue into your whinge about the UN not having it's own army, or the only army?
 

Your error there: both propositions are important (stop displaying your nuance-less, black and white brain...) 

Quote:
To this day they have a strong interest in not being slaughtered for being Jewish. You make it sound like that is a bad thing.


This debate - and that above statement -  is at least important for showing why political discourse in the demoracies is so hyperpartisan and insane these days.

1. No-one likes being slaughtered for whatever reason; the causes require examination.

2. Genocide is  always deplorable, whoever does it.


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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #207 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:28pm
 
Apologies, that statement was from back before I realised just how absurd your position is.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #208 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:12pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 2:56pm:
Quote:
Keep agreeing with you?


Only when I accuse you of saying the most absurd things.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 11:31am:
[quote]So the Israelis broke the law by setting up the UN-sanctioned state themselves, rather than waiting for the UN to do it for them - a capacity which they still lack to this day?

Yes. 


I agreed  with your ideologically misconstrued question; while noting an individual group cannot set up a UN sanctioned state by themselves when another group objects. Only the UNSC can adjudicate the matter - except that the UNSC is rendered powerless by your "individual freedom" delusions.

Catch-22. ...no need to apolologise for low IQ, you can still learn.






This "another group" being the Muslims who object in principle to Israel's existence? 


Yes.

Quote:
Are you just making up rules as you go along?


No.

Quote:
Also, what is an "individual group"?


In this case, a group who wanted to carve a state out of other people's land (which was sanctioned by the UN) vote)  - as opposed to the creation of a state (or states) under international law...law which is ineffective at this stage, owing to your delusioal "individual freedom" ideology.   

Catch-22.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #209 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:34pm
 
Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing?

If a visiting foreigner had helped them out, would that mean they were no longer breaking the law, because they were not acting as an "individual group by themselves"?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #210 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:34pm:
Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing?


See the link previouslty supplied a few posts back (to Frank, iirc).

Quote:
If a visiting foreigner had helped them out, would that mean they were no longer breaking the law, because they were not acting as an "individual group by themselves"?


No. A "visiting foreigner" is irrelevent to (as yet non-existent**) effective  international law and the creation of states.

** non-existent, owing to your delusional 'individual freedo..... ...oh dear, I'm arguing with a madman, this will be tough....

Anyway, please  stop asking your insane or low IQ or  ideologically construed questions. They will be disposed of forthwith, as always.
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Reply #211 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:48pm
 
.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #212 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:58pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:47pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:34pm:
Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing?


See the link previouslty supplied a few posts back (to Frank, iirc).



That is a link to a home page, not an article.

The UN doesn't have the ability to create states, only to facilitate the recognition of a state by its members. The UN is NOTJING without its member states.
Only a people can create a state since a state is the expression of the sovereignty of a people.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #213 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 4:38pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:47pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:34pm:
Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing?


See the link previouslty supplied a few posts back (to Frank, iirc).

Quote:
If a visiting foreigner had helped them out, would that mean they were no longer breaking the law, because they were not acting as an "individual group by themselves"?


No. A "visiting foreigner" is irrelevent to (as yet non-existent**) effective  international law and the creation of states.

** non-existent, owing to your delusional 'individual freedo..... ...oh dear, I'm arguing with a madman, this will be tough....

Anyway, please  stop asking your insane or low IQ or  ideologically construed questions. They will be disposed of forthwith, as always.


Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing? In particular, this rule:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:30pm:
while noting an individual group cannot set up a UN sanctioned state by themselves when another group objects


sounds like something a primary school student might make up in a desperate attempt to avoid acknowledging they have lost all credibility.

If the nation of Tokelau had sent it's army to assist the Israelis in setting up their nation, would that have legitimised it?
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #214 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 5:48pm
 
Now for some 'relief' from a 'deadly' topic:

Lovely to see a dove (symbol of peace)  flying around  inside the European Parliament.....

https://metro.co.uk/2024/04/24/pro-putin-meps-bizarre-call-peace-ukraine-dove-hi...

Pro-Putin MEP’s bizarre call for peace in Ukraine with dove hidden in a bag

.......

Reminded me of the imagery at the end of Bach's St. Matthew Passion, set to text:

"In the evening the dove returned
And carried an olive leaf in its beak.
O beautiful time ..."


(ie, the evening after the crucifixion).

Of course, one MEP completely missed the point and complained about 'animal rights' ... while another complained about the dove being loose in the chamber....undoubtedly they voted for the usual conservative pro-war  "freedom or death" ideology, as opposed to freedom and life.










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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #215 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 6:05pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:58pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:47pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 3:34pm:
Can you quote the relevant legislation that you are paraphrasing?


See the link previouslty supplied a few posts back (to Frank, iirc).



That is a link to a home page, not an article.

The UN doesn't have the ability to create states, only to facilitate the recognition of a state by its members. The UN is NOTJING without its member states.


Correct, but obviously the UN member states have to agree to abide by international law, which agencies of the UN can create (though at this stage, cannot defend - as I keep reminding the 'individual freedom' ideologues on this board). 

Quote:
Only a people can create a state since a state is the expression of the sovereignty of a people.



Incorrect, Israel would not exist were it not for the UN Partition Plan (bungled though it was...).    
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #216 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 6:15pm
 
You said the exact opposite an hour ago, you stupid, absurd idiot.

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #217 - Apr 25th, 2024 at 6:23pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 25th, 2024 at 6:15pm:
You said the exact opposite an hour ago, you stupid, absurd idiot.

Care to state clearly what I said in #215 is the 'exact opposite' of what I said an hour ago?

Meanwhile on this Anzac Day, Dutton is out there bleating  about "courage".... like all conservative pro-war  "freedom or death" ideologues, as opposed to freedom and life.
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #218 - Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:34pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:




BREAKING REPORT: Following Bidən’s debate performance, Colonel Douglas Macgregor calls for EARLY ELECTIONS…

President Bidən is NOT FIT to discharge the immense duties of the presidency.”

https://x.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1806858776433090668
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #219 - Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:53pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:





That is all Russian propaganda.
The Russians can hardly fight Ukraine yet alone 32 countries.    Roll Eyes
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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #220 - Jun 30th, 2024 at 1:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:34pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:




BREAKING REPORT: Following Bidən’s debate performance, Colonel Douglas Macgregor calls for EARLY ELECTIONS…

President Bidən is NOT FIT to discharge the immense duties of the presidency.”

https://x.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1806858776433090668



Early elections - with Biden as the Dem.  candidate?  Organizing a replacement Dem candidate will take time,  meaning "early" is moot.

Still waiting for you to indentify what you claim was "the exact opposite"......see the post before yours.   

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Re: WW3? An informed conservative perspective
Reply #221 - Jul 2nd, 2024 at 6:58pm
 
Smiley
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GOD BLESS AMERICA
 
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Re: An informed conservative perspective
Reply #222 - Oct 6th, 2024 at 3:13am
 
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:






NewsColonel Douglas Macgregor Is ‘MAD AS HELL’ Over Biden-Harris’ Treasonous Hurricane Response


"Our good countrymen and women are being left to fend for themselves while the government bends over backward for illegal immigrants, criminal gang members, foreign governments, and — of course — lines the pockets of warmongers!”

As families in North Carolina suffer without food, water, or electricity, Macgregor laid out the harsh reality: “Fort Bragg, now renamed Fort Liberty, is only 300 miles from Asheville, North Carolina, where thousands of Americans are coping with washed-out roads and bridges, power outages, and a desperate need for clean water.”

Yet, he pointed out, not a single army helicopter has been sent to rescue them. Why? Because those aircraft are busy overseas, leaving Americans in the dust.

“Too many Americans have been left behind by a negligent federal government for too long,” Macgregor declared. His message to Washington is loud and clear: prioritize Americans NOW.
https://vigilantnews.com/post/colonel-douglas-macgregor-is-mad-as-hell-over-bide...
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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2024 at 3:36am by Frank »  

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Re: An informed conservative perspective
Reply #223 - Oct 6th, 2024 at 11:25am
 
Frank wrote on Oct 6th, 2024 at 3:13am:
mothra wrote on Apr 12th, 2024 at 7:56am:
Would absolutely love to see constructive comments about the following video. This is conservative dialogue i absolutely agree with almost entirely.

Compelling and brilliantly explored and explained:






NewsColonel Douglas Macgregor Is ‘MAD AS HELL’ Over Biden-Harris’ Treasonous Hurricane Response


"Our good countrymen and women are being left to fend for themselves while the government bends over backward for illegal immigrants, criminal gang members, foreign governments, and — of course — lines the pockets of warmongers!”

As families in North Carolina suffer without food, water, or electricity, Macgregor laid out the harsh reality: “Fort Bragg, now renamed Fort Liberty, is only 300 miles from Asheville, North Carolina, where thousands of Americans are coping with washed-out roads and bridges, power outages, and a desperate need for clean water.”

Yet, he pointed out, not a single army helicopter has been sent to rescue them. Why? Because those aircraft are busy overseas, leaving Americans in the dust.

“Too many Americans have been left behind by a negligent federal government for too long,” Macgregor declared. His message to Washington is loud and clear: prioritize Americans NOW.
https://vigilantnews.com/post/colonel-douglas-macgregor-is-mad-as-hell-over-bide...


Good to see a colonel criticizing the military-industrial complex for its egregious claims on resources needed at home.
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