Australian Politics Forum - Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?

Baronvonrort

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #30 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 12:14am

Gordon wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:11pm:

The ICE is on it's way out, but not as fast as people probably think.

Leccy cars are still a novelty and if serious amounts of people switched to them the power grid would probably crash, and forget about trying to get on a public charger.

I reckon the best idea would be to pivot to hydrogen, not fuel cell but hydrogen ICE.

You could have both nuke and solar plants using excess energy to make hydrogen.

The governments in some places will ban new ICE which means people who can't afford electric will be using public transport if it's available.

The grid can barely handle peak loads as it is certainly will crash if everyone has to go electric.

Hydrogen ICE has storage problems.
If it's stored as gas tanks will be huge to get decent range so not likely. If it's liquid tanks can be much smaller has to be cooled to - 250C then the tank vents hydrogen to atmosphere as it heats up. BMW make H ICE they have warning it can't be parked inside due to tank venting. They claim to have a system which grabs Oxygen atom to convert H gas into water which leaves you with wet garage floor.

Fuel cells are probably the only viable gas Hydrogen alternative at this stage they don't need liquid H.

There is Aussie University who invented solar hydrogen from water we will probably need nuclear or more hydro (not pumped BS) to give reliable power.

We could have weaned ourselves off Arab oil by using LPG which is a lot cleaner. Howard started taxing the F^#k out of it which pushed people away. We sell it to China at giveaway prices.

Looking at new cars to update daily driver it's down to Corolla hybrid or WRX.

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issuevoter

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #31 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 7:55am

Two years until the deisel ban in 5 cities. I doubt anyone on Ozpol remembers the days when cities had to ban coal burning because it was killing people, but you cannot see deisel fumes. Take a look at city buildings, especially stone masonary, its stained black and has to be steam cleaned which erodes the surface. Same with statues and monuments. We breath that stuff. EVs are not the problem, they are better in many ways than ICE vehicles. Its battery technology that needs to change. I believe it will, but I don't see how we can make the change on renewable alone.

However, the military is not going electric.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/four-of-the-worlds-biggest-cities-...

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #32 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 8:35am

Hydrogen is problematic as a fuel. Due to the small size of the molecules it escapes at all stages of production, storage, distribution and use.

Large scale leaking of hydrogen will cause problems.

You might think:

2H2 + O2 ——> 2H2O

But this reaction will also happen:

H2 + 2OH ——> 2H2O

The hydroxyl ion will be removed from the atmosphere and the hydroxyl ion is the “detergent” of the atmosphere.

I remember backyard incinerators being banned and solid combustion heaters. All I remember of coal is Mum putting out newspapers for the coal men to walk on when they delivered bag after bag of coal—Holland early to mid 1950s.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #33 - Sep 15^th, 2023 at 12:15am

A Tesla Model Y battery has a mass of 770kg,
or 1,700 lbs.

One litre of petrol has a mass of 740g which means
an average tank of petrol has a liquid mass of 40kg.

So... in your overpriced Tesla, you're already carrying
around the equivalent mass of five (non-existent)
passengers. How's that for "economy" LOL.

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aquascoot

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #34 - Sep 15^th, 2023 at 5:25am

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years.

energy security is economic security

germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants

then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal,

people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's

so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel.

electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

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Big Donger

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #35 - Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:12pm

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2023 at 5:25am:

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years.

energy security is economic security

germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants

then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal,

people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's

so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel.

electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia.

If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal.

If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security.

This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes.

It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters.

People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick.

In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years.

That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #36 - Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:56pm

Big Donger wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2023 at 5:25am:

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years.

energy security is economic security

germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants

then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal,

people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's

so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel.

electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia.

If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal.

If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security.

This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes.

It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters.

People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick.

In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years.

That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables.

Ok MattyFwit....thank you for pontificating in my topic.

Now tell us what car you own.

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Big Donger

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #37 - Sep 16^th, 2023 at 10:50pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:56pm:

Big Donger wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2023 at 5:25am:

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years.

energy security is economic security

germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants

then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal,

people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's

so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel.

electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia.

If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal.

If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security.

This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes.

It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters.

People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick.

In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years.

That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables.

Ok MattyFwit....thank you for pontificating in my topic.

Now tell us what car you own.

Why, my dear lady, I'm a shareholder in an entire public transport network, Sydney Transport.

You?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56770 Gender:	Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car? Reply #38 - Sep 16^th, 2023 at 11:33pm Mattyfisk (Karnal) uses Aussie's taxi
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Big Donger

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #39 - Sep 17^th, 2023 at 1:18am

Jasin wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 11:33pm:

Mattyfisk (Karnal) uses Aussie's taxi

Only in New York, dear.

Actually, in Manhattan you'd be insane to drive a ve-hic-le. The subway's less than two bucks a pop. Trains arrive every few minutes and drop you wherever you want to go.

You can buy a dollar pizza slice pretty much anywhere, so to eat and travel, your needs are assured, the only thing you need to worry about is rent.

London's just as good, but I do find their prices insane. Their system appears privatised, or close to it. Nobody seems to know. If you don't have an Oyster card, you'll pay over $12 AUD for a 2 km trip. And if you do, but travel an hour away to, say, Brighton, you'll pay about $40. Any further than that and you pay at least $120, it's cheaper to fly.

The good thing about London is people are quite happy to walk and ride bicycles, and it's flat.

Sorry, Aquascoot, horses are restricted to Buck Pal, I'm afraid.

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« Last Edit: Sep 17^th, 2023 at 1:53pm by Big Donger »

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 46311	Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car? Reply #40 - Sep 18^th, 2023 at 5:21pm An Intro to Tactical Electric Power
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