Australian Politics Forum - Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?

Baronvonrort

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #15 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:25am

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 11:23pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

JC Denton wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads

prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out

i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time

More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks.

Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on.

These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades.

The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$.

I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars.

Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car.

A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax.

Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it.

https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan

No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax.

The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax.

Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population.

The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily).

Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure.

Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer.

I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands.
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20...

It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid.

The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana. Shocked

Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you.

Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive.

If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars.

I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #16 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 7:51am

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:25am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 11:23pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

JC Denton wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads

prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out

i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time

More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks.

Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on.

These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades.

The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$.

I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars.

Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car.

A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax.

Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it.

https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan

No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax.

The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax.

Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population.

The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily).

Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure.

Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer.

I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands.
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20...

It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid.

The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana. Shocked

Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you.

Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive.

If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars.

I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired.

I’m suddenly feeling very relieved/blessed/safe that we didn’t follow the sheeple around us in buying one. Seriously ... what a waste of money. If anything it’s making me wonder WHICH names appear as the major pushers/shareholders in electric car technology. I bet they’re the same well known global names we’ve seen before ... you know the ones I’m referring to...they sit at the top of the apex of marketing BS in order to sell something only an idiot would waste their money on.

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Violet Crumble

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #17 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 11:21am

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 7:51am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:25am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 11:23pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

JC Denton wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads

prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out

i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time

More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks.

Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on.

These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades.

The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$.

I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars.

Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car.

A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax.

Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it.

https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan

No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax.

The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax.

Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population.

The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily).

Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure.

Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer.

I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands.
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20...

It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid.

The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana. Shocked

Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you.

Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive.

If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars.

I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired.

I’m suddenly feeling very relieved/blessed/safe that we didn’t follow the sheeple around us in buying one. Seriously ... what a waste of money. If anything it’s making me wonder WHICH names appear as the major pushers/shareholders in electric car technology. I bet they’re the same well known global names we’ve seen before ... you know the ones I’m referring to...they sit at the top of the apex of marketing BS in order to sell something only an idiot would waste their money on.

Are you a Scientologist?

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Gordon

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #18 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:11pm

The ICE is on it's way out, but not as fast as people probably think.

Leccy cars are still a novelty and if serious amounts of people switched to them the power grid would probably crash, and forget about trying to get on a public charger.

I reckon the best idea would be to pivot to hydrogen, not fuel cell but hydrogen ICE.

You could have both nuke and solar plants using excess energy to make hydrogen.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #19 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 5:00pm

This is a pretty good reason NOT to buy an electric vehicle...

A failed electric vehicle battery has caused a fire at Sydney
Airport, destroying five cars.

Superintendent Adam Dewberry from Fire and Rescue
NSW said that while battery fires were not uncommon,
electric vehicles were not a concern for authorities.

Superintendent Dewberry said the incident could have
been much worse.

"The aviation team were on the scene very quickly and
able to get on top of this fire. Even with the close
proximity they are to the fire... it spread fairly quickly."

A fire and rescue team monitored the battery overnight,
before handing the scene back to airport investigators.

In cases of a lithium-ion battery fire firefighters will
cool down the battery and place it in a container
with water to stop re-ignitions.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #20 - Sep 12^th, 2023 at 9:08pm

OMG!!! 😮

Dear God! The above article refers to something which happened today!

Here’s another link related to the above event 👇

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12507659/Electric-car-battery-fire-Sydn...

Part of this article states there were 431 lithium battery fire incidents in Australia last year.

In Australia last year alone there were 180 lithium battery fires reported in NSW, 120 in Victoria, 72 in Queensland and 59 in WA.

Faulty or poor quality batteries can ignite while charging but they can also catch fire when they are are not even plugged in.

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« Last Edit: Sep 12^th, 2023 at 9:16pm by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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AusGeoff

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #21 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 2:17am

As a user of multiple lithium-ion cells, I've seen
numerous, cheaply made, Chinese knock-off
imports of safe, name-brand products such as
Sony, LG or Samsung.

Too many of these cells—usually designated as
18650, diameter x length—are what's known as
"unprotected", lacking safety features that prevent
overcharging, over-discharging, or short circuits.

If you're paying only $1.50 per cell on Alibaba or
Fishpond then you're buying potential trouble.

Tesla uses 7,104 Panasonic 18650s in their S and
X model battery packs. Which makes it critical
for them to be a protected brand name. If even
one of those cells shorts out, then the entire pack
can suffer a thermal runaway, which makes the
ensuing fire almost impossible to extinguish.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #22 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 8:46am

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 2:17am:

As a user of multiple lithium-ion cells, I've seen
numerous, cheaply made, Chinese knock-off
imports of safe, name-brand products such as
Sony, LG or Samsung.

Too many of these cells—usually designated as
18650, diameter x length—are what's known as
"unprotected", lacking safety features that prevent
overcharging, over-discharging, or short circuits.

If you're paying only $1.50 per cell on Alibaba or
Fishpond then you're buying potential trouble.

Tesla uses 7,104 Panasonic 18650s in their S and X model battery packs.Which makes it critical for them to be a protected brand name. If even one of those cells shorts out, then the entire pack can suffer a thermal runaway, which makes the ensuing fire almost impossible to extinguish.

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

Dear God!

These are used in watches etc. And aren’t they all made in bloody China?

Also if (for whatever reason) China chooses to make these cells unavailable ... then how can electric cars function?

As I see it .... we’re at the mercy of China who is in control once again 😩

Edit : FMD I was right! Forget the Japanese brand name PANASONIC. Read what’s been going on since 2017 👇

https://eepower.com/news/panasonic-opens-automotive-li-ion-factory-in-china/#:~:...

Look at the trillions China has been making in lithium cell production for the past 6 plus years. We’ve been taken for fools!

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« Last Edit: Sep 13^th, 2023 at 8:52am by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Bobby.

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #23 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 8:58am

Not another massive battery fire?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-12/sydney-airport-lithium-ion-battery-causes...

Electric vehicle battery causes fire at Sydney Airport, destroys five cars

By Maryanne Taouk
Posted 14h ago

Five cars have been destroyed after a lithium-ion battery
exploded at Sydney Airport on Monday night.

Key points:

A detached EV battery has been confirmed as the source of the fire
Fire and rescue crews attended the scene under the control tower at Sydney Airport
Authorities have monitored the battery overnight in case of a spark-up

Fire and Rescue NSW and the Aviation Rescue Firefighting Service battled the blaze which broke out under the control tower on the southern end of Airport Drive in Mascot.

Firefighters confirmed sparks spread from a detached lithium-ion battery from a luxury car to four nearby cars parked at the airport about 8:30pm.

Superintendent Adam Dewberry from Fire and Rescue NSW said that while battery fires were not uncommon, electric vehicles were not a concern for authorities.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56770 Gender:	Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car? Reply #24 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 12:47pm Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Gordon

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #25 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 1:40pm

Electric cars must be the first choice of white supremacists.

If I REALLY wanted to see sɹǝƃƃᴉu suffer, I'd go out and buy a few.

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/nov/08/cobalt-drc-miners-toi...

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AusGeoff

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #26 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 7:29pm

Australia is the world's biggest supplier of lithium:

Currently, the biggest mines...

Greenbushes, Western Australia, owned by Talison
Lithium. Current production capacity at 1.34 million
tonnes a year of chemical-grade and technical-grade
lithium concentrate.

Pilgangoora, Western Australia, owned by Pilbara
Minerals produces 360,000 to 380,000 tonnes of
spodumene (8% lithium) concentrate per annum,
with two expansions underway that will increase
production capacity to 1,000,000 tonnes per annum.

Mt Cattlin, Western Australia,produced 194,000 tonnes
of spodumene concentrate last year.

Mount Marion, Western Australia, owned by Mineral
Resources Ltd was on track to produce 450,000 to
600,000 tonnes of spodumene as of August 2022,
with a targeted expansion to 900,000 tonnes per
annum from July this year.

Also...

Australia holds 1.5 million tonnes of the global cobalt
reserves, in second place to the DRC, which holds 50%
of the known global reserve with 3.6 million tonnes.

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Sophia

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #27 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:23pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 12:47pm:

Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are.

Yep what I always thought too.
And they pay premium price too!
Sad in a way though, it’s still people’s hard earned money and lives that suffer. Too trusting. More discernment would help.

I’m not the least bit interesting in electric vehicles.
There are, and were, and will be better options. Sketched history of it has proved it but overlooked for the almighty quick dollar and control.
Imagine if we ran our vehicles with H2O… oh oops that’s right… it did try to get through … but repressed.

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Bobby.

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Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car?
Reply #28 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:35pm

Sophia wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:23pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 12:47pm:

Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are.

Yep what I always thought too.
And they pay premium price too!
Sad in a way though, it’s still people’s hard earned money and lives that suffer. Too trusting. More discernment would help.

I’m not the least bit interesting in electric vehicles.
There are, and were, and will be better options. Sketched history of it has proved it but overlooked for the almighty quick dollar and control.
Imagine if we ran our vehicles with H2O… oh oops that’s right… it did try to get through … but repressed.

It only takes 1 in say 300 batteries to fail and the whole lot will go up in smoke -
each little battery is like a grenade -
and water won't put the fire out -
water reacts with Lithium to make Hydrogen and the fire gets worse.
The technology is too new -
they need sensors on every battery to detect any fault and shut it down -
but they only have maybe one sensor to cover 300 batteries
so the system doesn't know if there's a crook battery
and keeps on charging it until it catches fire.

Stuff electric cars - I don't want one.

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AusGeoff Gold Member Offline Sage of Gippsland Posts: 6025 Victoria Gender:	Re: Why would anyone want to buy an electric car? Reply #29 - Sep 13^th, 2023 at 10:36pm Check out this video of an electric vehicle fire in the UK last year... and be very concerned. Imagine if this double-decker bus had been in service with 50 passengers on board.
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