Australian Politics Forum - Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy

thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #45 - Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:14pm:

No petal. no ad hominem. You haven't even tried to explain how the top dam of Snowy2.0 will generate all the energy cliamed. Roll Eyes

More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's a principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself.

Quote:

Once again you have disproved nothing. To disprove something you must first prove something different. Roll Eyes

er...pumped hydro storage, powered using excess renewables, (which are always available somewhere), maybe 10 percent nuclear backing a global system is required, we won't know till we have just about entirely exited fossils. and the global renewables architecture is fully realised.

Quote:

The discovery is by observation or experiment. Neither of which have been shown. Roll Eyes

Correct (...there's that clock again...).

The observations and consequent adjustments can only be made when we near 100% global renewables.

Quote:

Yes. So tell me about this empirical "evidence" that you have. Roll Eyes

Addressed above; see where your incapacity for forward thinking has led you....

Quote:

So we haven't had this observational approach yet. Thanks for that. Will - future perfect., hence no observational data.

Addressed above; your GIGO errors are egregious indeed.

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lee

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #46 - Nov 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's a principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself.

You forgot the word "theoretically". Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

er...pumped hydro storage, powered using excess renewables, (which are always available somewhere), maybe 10 percent nuclear backing a global system is required, we won't know till we have just about entirely exited fossils. and the global renewables architecture is fully realised.

See now you post fallacies. The somewhere may not be anywhere it is of use. Fail. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Correct (...there's that clock again...).

So you accept that there is no observation and it hasn't been shown to work at scale, even theoretically. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

The observations and consequent adjustments can only be made when we near 100% global renewables.

There you go again pinning your hopes on unproven technologies. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Addressed above; see where your incapacity for forward thinking has led you....

Nope. NO observation. NO experiment at scale. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Addressed above; your GIGO errors are egregious indeed.

No you haven't. Will happen is hope has happened is observation. Roll Eyes

You still haven't posted any evidence of anything. Which climate scientists say 3ºC. Which ones say otherwise. You are the one calling it a consensus. Roll Eyes

What do the IPCC actually say?

Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties.

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.5.4

Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6

The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued
to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see
Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII).

WG1 4.2.2

Most multi-model studies assuming rapid economic growth/business-as-usual scenarios (A2,A1B, RCP8.5) show an increase in future woody biomass and areas of woody cover towards the end of the 21st century in the temperate regions (Boit et al., 2016; Nabuurs et al., 2017) and in tropical forests in East Africa (Ross et al., 2021) but decrease in the remaining tropical regions (Anadón et al., 2014; Boit et al., 2016; Lyra et al., 2017; Nabuurs et al., 2017; Maia et al., 2020).

IPCC AR6 WG11 2.5.2.6

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #47 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's a principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself.

You forgot the word "theoretically". Roll Eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectric_power_station...

Quote:

See now you post fallacies. The somewhere may not be anywhere it is of use. Fail. Roll Eyes

Transmission technology allows connection over vast distances.

Quote:

So you accept that there is no observation and it hasn't been shown to work at scale, even theoretically. Roll Eyes

I accept you don't have two brain cells to rub together because you can't understand the concept of empiricism as we reach a condition that is yet to be achieved (ie near 100% renewables)

Quote:

There you go again pinning your hopes on unproven technologies. Roll Eyes

You error is obvious.

Solar, wind and pumped hydro storage are all available and proven technologies; the issue is security - achievable by empirical measurement - as we near 100% renewables, still decades away.

Quote:

Nope. NO observation. NO experiment at scale. Roll Eyes

see... still more GIGO from you as usual: you can't do a global experiment before the globe is running on near 100% renewables.

Quote:

You still haven't posted any evidence of anything. Which climate scientists say 3ºC. Which ones say otherwise. You are the one calling it a consensus. Roll Eyes

COP27 accept it as consensus.

Quote:

What do the IPCC actually say?

Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties.

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.5.4

Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6

The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued
to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see
Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII).

WG1 4.2.2

Most multi-model studies assuming rapid economic growth/business-as-usual scenarios (A2,A1B, RCP8.5) show an increase in future woody biomass and areas of woody cover towards the end of the 21st century in the temperate regions (Boit et al., 2016; Nabuurs et al., 2017) and in tropical forests in East Africa (Ross et al., 2021) but decrease in the remaining tropical regions (Anadón et al., 2014; Boit et al., 2016; Lyra et al., 2017; Nabuurs et al., 2017; Maia et al., 2020).

IPCC AR6 WG11 2.5.2.6

The leaders at COP27 have clearly stated the consensus, ie, a disastrous 3 degrees by century's end, unless we close the fossil industry....which needs to be closed anyway, given its poisonous, price gouging nature.

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lee

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #48 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectr
ic_power_station...

Tumut 3 does not have anything to do with solar and wind. Snowy2.0 is not completed and has nothing to do with solar and wind currently., Roll Eyes

.thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

Transmission technology allows connection over vast distances.

And also has the attendant losses over vast distances. Even DC has large losses over large distances. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

I accept you don't have two brain cells to rub together because you can't understand the concept of empiricism as we reach a condition that is yet to be achieved (ie near 100% renewables)

That is not debate. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

Solar, wind and pumped hydro storage are all available and proven technologies; the issue is security - achievable by empirical measurement - as we near 100% renewables, still decades away.

Hydro works we know. Pumped hydro will work in isolation when the draw is less than the output and some is used to recharge the top dam. Having the larger dam above a smaller one is a no-no, as you can't let the top dam empty. It would flood the bottom dam. .
.
Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

See... still more GIGO from you as usual: you can't do a global experiment before the globe is running on near 100% renewables.

You can't even give one country that has achieved it. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

COP27 accept it as consensus.

That is not proof. It is just politicians making hay in the sunshine. Climate Scientists. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

The leaders at COP27 have clearly stated the consensus, ie, a disastrous 3 degrees by century's end, unless we close the fossil industry....which needs to be closed anyway, given its poisonous, price gouging nature.

More about politicians. Politicians mostly, like you, don't do science or engineering. Roll Eyes

Slight cooling. Oh noes.

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« Last Edit: Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:51pm by lee »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #49 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 1:14pm

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectr
ic_power_station...

Tumut 3 does not have anything to do with solar and wind. Snowy2.0 is not completed and has nothing to do with solar and wind currently., Roll Eyes

You aren't thinking clearly, as you are losing the debate.

You said pumped hydro is theory, I linked the list of operating pumped-hydro storage facilities in operation.

Quote:

And also has the attendant losses over vast distances. Even DC has large losses over large distances. Roll Eyes

Losses don't matter when the 'fuel' (sun and wind - somewhere on the planet) is infinite.

Quote:

That is not debate. Roll Eyes

er...all words after "because'... ARE debate (admittedly my characterization of your mental incapacity to understand the concept or forward empiricism, as 'lack of two brain cells' was gratuitous insult, nevertheless the explanation for the insult was given).

Quote:

Hydro works we know. Pumped hydro will work in isolation when the draw is less than the output and some is used to recharge the top dam. Having the larger dam above a smaller one is a no-no, as you can't let the top dam empty. It would flood the bottom dam.

So you are describing an engineering problem which must be solved, which the pumped-hydro storage facilities I linked have solved.

Quote:

Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples? Roll Eyes

I have already conceded a certain level of nuclear baseload may need to be part of a near 100% renewables world.

Quote:

You can't even give one country that has achieved it. Roll Eyes

Thats what the COPs are trying to achieve; obviously Oz is one of many countries which could easily achieve near 100% renewables sufficiency.

Quote:

That is not proof. It is just politicians making hay in the sunshine. Climate Scientists. Roll Eyes

But in any case, we end up with clean, cheap, limitless energy.

Quote:

More about politicians. Politicians mostly, like you, don't do science or engineering. Roll Eyes

Addressed above. Transition to renewables is a 'no lose' situation (provided the greedy private sector is ousted from energy production) - regardless of AGW-CO2 science.

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Frank

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #50 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 3:57pm

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY

25 OCTOBER, 2022
Clean Energy Council

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton.

"Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy.

"Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures.

"We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status.

"It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition."

ENDS

Skål!

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #51 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm

Frank wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 3:57pm:

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY

25 OCTOBER, 2022
Clean Energy Council

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton.

"Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy.

"Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures.

"We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status.

"It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition."

ENDS

Skål!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

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lee

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #52 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 8:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

Who says that COP27 is a scam, a platform for greenwashing, lying and cheating.

It seems she is not a fan, unlike you. Roll Eyes

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AusGeoff

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #53 - Nov 9^th, 2022 at 9:06pm

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:40pm:

Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples?

Mapped: Solar and Wind Power by Country as of 8 May 2022.

You're seeing [below] in real time the dashboard for our King Island
renewable energy solution. It is based on contributions from wind and solar
and the enabling technologies that improve system security and reliability,
such as battery, dynamic resister, flywheel and demand side management.

The King Island Renewable Energy Integration Project (KIREIP).

Interesting stuff. These green generation data also show how successfully
wind and solar powered electricity generation have advanced in a relatively
short developmental period.

At the moment, development of the Star of The South wind farm off the Ninety
Mile Beach is progressing well, and has the imprimatur of both the State and
Federal governments. It will generate 2.2GW which equals 18% of Victoria's
power needs. This output is nearly identical to the capacity of the existing
Loy Yang A facility which is due to close in 20135.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #54 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 9:28am

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 8:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

Who says that COP27 is a scam, a platform for greenwashing, lying and cheating.

It seems she is not a fan, unlike you. Roll Eyes

No; I agree with Greta, as you should know after our long debate re the politics and economics of renewables.

COP27 will mostly be a talkfest, because - fundamentally - citizens don't want to pay for the transition out of their own hip-pockets; and politicians are in the pockets of fossil price-gougers who don't want the transition to happen at all.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 15644 Gender:	Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy Reply #55 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 9:30am Nevertheless, the transition is awakening: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/undersea-cable-to-funnel-3-gigawatts-of-solar-en... Undersea Cable to Funnel 3 Gigawatts of Solar Energy From Egypt to Power Millions of European Households
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Frank

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #56 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 10:10am

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 3:57pm:

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY

25 OCTOBER, 2022
Clean Energy Council

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton.

"Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy.

"Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures.

"We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status.

"It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition."

ENDS

Skål!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

And the bad news?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #57 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 10:27am

Frank wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 10:10am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 3:57pm:

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY

25 OCTOBER, 2022
Clean Energy Council

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton.

"Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy.

"Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures.

"We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status.

"It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition."

ENDS

Skål!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

And the bad news?

That is the bad news; ie, business as usual is not sustainable.

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lee

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #58 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 12:32pm

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 9:06pm:

It will generate 2.2GW which equals 18% of Victoria's
power needs.

It MAY generate 2.2 GW. Is that peak, average or what? Roll Eyes

Edit: Looking at the project up to 200 12-18MW wind turbines. 3.6GW maximum rated. for Up to 2.2Gw or a 61% capacity rating. Roll Eyes

Current generation 68% diesel, 2% solar, 30% wind

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2022 at 3:17pm by lee »

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lee

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #59 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 12:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 9:30am:

Nevertheless, the transition is awakening:

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/undersea-cable-to-funnel-3-gigawatts-of-solar-en...

Undersea Cable to Funnel 3 Gigawatts of Solar Energy From Egypt to Power Millions of European Households

To Funnel? It hasn't happened. So NO OBSERVATIONAL data. Roll Eyes

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