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Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy (Read 2550 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #75 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:12am
 
lee wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 9:06pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 8:29pm:
Well.... people are demanding govt.-based insurance, as the private sector can't pay up for the increasing number of weather (aka climate) catastrophes.


So which insurance companies have gone broke in Australia, in the last 5 years? Roll Eyes


Wrong question, as usual.

Private sector profit-seekers are now refusing to insure  people - at affordable prices - who they consider live in climate affected zones.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #76 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:19am
 
Frank wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:15am:
This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.

This is a scandal. There’s no other word for it. And the awful reality is, small businesses in neighbourhoods like mine, all across Australia, will be hit with this body blow. It will land on families that can absorb it, albeit resentfully, and those for whom it means they won’t eat some nights. Homes, families, neighbours and businesses like yours and mine.

Australia is hostage to this energy crisis by its own hand, and the drama is playing out in a crowded echo chamber, where fear-driven absolutism reigns. Where middle ground is not allowed in discussion, let alone policy development. Where ideology trumps intellect and to hell with the consequences. Where cautioning against a reckless rush towards over-reliance on renewables gets you shunned as an unbeliever, a "denier".
..
Anthony Albanese swore on the ballot box that our household power bills would fall by more than $250 per household per year. What’s worse? Knowing it was a lie or not realising it was never going to be possible?

Which brings us to the here and now. A fraught environment in which the loudest voices outside of government pushing the green dream are elites who, from Australia’s largest homes, private planes, islands and yachts, lecture to the rest of us with an “okay proletariat, line up for your soup” kind of vibe. In a cute but not unexpected plot twist, their individual carbon footprints are the largest in the country, according to international aid agency Oxfam. Meanwhile, everyone else braces themselves for what’s to come.

In the same week federal MP for Curtin Kate Chaney suggested a resources super-profits tax would “help Australia’s most vulnerable”. What an odd concept. Let’s further take a bat to one of the only reliable, affordable energy sources, which will drive prices higher still, which in turn will hit lowest income earners the hardest, so we can – wait for it – help the most vulnerable. You’d be hard-pressed to make this stuff up on a bad day. This is what you get when the conversation is half-baked and full of half-truths.

..
Policy absolutists are just as bad as the Christian who takes one verse from the Bible and makes a doctrine out of it. In this case, it’s the doctrine of renewables-at-all-costs that is the threat. Heaven help us all.
Gemma Tognini


Tognini- just another AGW-CO2 denier.

AGW-CO2 is the ULTIMATE threat, if it is real.

And you can't prove it's not real.

So, since we no longer need the private greedy poisonous fossil price gougers , let's get on with the transition to cheap (after the infrastructure is built), clean limitless renewables ASAP.
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Frank
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #77 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:24pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:19am:
Frank wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:15am:
This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.

This is a scandal. There’s no other word for it. And the awful reality is, small businesses in neighbourhoods like mine, all across Australia, will be hit with this body blow. It will land on families that can absorb it, albeit resentfully, and those for whom it means they won’t eat some nights. Homes, families, neighbours and businesses like yours and mine.

Australia is hostage to this energy crisis by its own hand, and the drama is playing out in a crowded echo chamber, where fear-driven absolutism reigns. Where middle ground is not allowed in discussion, let alone policy development. Where ideology trumps intellect and to hell with the consequences. Where cautioning against a reckless rush towards over-reliance on renewables gets you shunned as an unbeliever, a "denier".
..

Anthony Albanese swore on the ballot box that our household power bills would fall by more than $250 per household per year. What’s worse? Knowing it was a lie or not realising it was never going to be possible?

Which brings us to the here and now. A fraught environment in which the loudest voices outside of government pushing the green dream are elites who, from Australia’s largest homes, private planes, islands and yachts, lecture to the rest of us with an “okay proletariat, line up for your soup” kind of vibe. In a cute but not unexpected plot twist, their individual carbon footprints are the largest in the country, according to international aid agency Oxfam. Meanwhile, everyone else braces themselves for what’s to come.

In the same week federal MP for Curtin Kate Chaney suggested a resources super-profits tax would “help Australia’s most vulnerable”. What an odd concept. Let’s further take a bat to one of the only reliable, affordable energy sources, which will drive prices higher still, which in turn will hit lowest income earners the hardest, so we can – wait for it – help the most vulnerable. You’d be hard-pressed to make this stuff up on a bad day. This is what you get when the conversation is half-baked and full of half-truths.

..
Policy absolutists are just as bad as the Christian who takes one verse from the Bible and makes a doctrine out of it. In this case, it’s the doctrine of renewables-at-all-costs that is the threat. Heaven help us all.
Gemma Tognini


Tognini- just another AGW-CO2 denier.

AGW-CO2 is the ULTIMATE threat, if it is real.

And you can't prove it's not real.

So, since we no longer need the private greedy poisonous fossil price gougers , let's get on with the transition to cheap (after the infrastructure is built), clean limitless renewables ASAP.



Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy "denier". When any yappy bozo like you uses the word "denier" as a counter-argument one knows you lot are full of crap.




And it's not cheap, not reliable. That's why we moved away from windmills in the 18th century.


This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #78 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:24pm:
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy "denier". When any yappy bozo like you uses the word "denier" as a counter-argument one knows you lot are full of crap.


The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real.

Quote:
And it's not cheap, not reliable. That's why we moved away from windmills in the 18th century.


Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.

Just as modern renewables technology enables us to move beyond poisonous overpriced fossil fuels.


Quote:
This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.


Chalmers is being typically recalcitrant, but I expect he will introduce a windfall profits tax or price caps on the fossil price gougers,  when Oz businesses start falling over because of high energy prices.
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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #79 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:18pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real.


And no one has proven it as real. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.


Yes. It is an old technology. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
Chalmers is being typically recalcitrant, but I expect he will introduce a windfall profits tax or price caps on the fossil price gougers,  when Oz businesses start falling over because of high energy prices.


The states had the right to impose limits to exports and what had to be held in reserve.. Even as far back as Charles Court who hasn't been in politics since 1982. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #80 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:18pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real.


And no one has proven it as real. Roll Eyes


And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.


Er....an offshore  "windmill" with a blade span of 100 metres...not your typical land-based 4 meter windmill of the 18th century...

Quote:
Yes. It is an old technology. Roll Eyes


No, just an old concept, which is a different thing to technological advance.

Quote:
The states had the right to impose limits to exports and what had to be held in reserve.



And only WA had the foresight to do that, a decade ago. 

Quote:
Even as far back as Charles Court who hasn't been in politics since 1982. Roll Eyes


Former WA (ALP) premier Alan Carpenter told The Sydney Morning Herald (June 2022) and The Age it was unfathomable that the scheme he implemented in 2006, which forces 15 per cent of gas produced in the state to be reserved for local users, had not been copied in other parts of the country.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/it-s-ridiculous-architect-of-wa-policy...




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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #81 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:45pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27. 


Yes. Even back to Aarhenius and Callendar they predicted any warming benign. It was warmer in the MWP and the Roman Optimum which is why they are still discovering artifacts revealed by retreating glaciers, Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
Er....an offshore  "windmill" with a blade span of 100 metres...not your typical land-based 4 meter windmill of the 18th century...


The same technology merely larger blades. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
No, just an old concept, which is a different thing to technological advance.


Nope. Merely larger. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
And only WA had the foresight to do that, a decade ago


Nope Charles Court between 1974 and 1982. Roll Eyes

"Western Australia has had a domestic gas policy since the 1970s when
Sir Charles Court's Government negotiated domestic gas supply with the North West
Shelf Joint Venture. "

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/commit.nsf/luInquiryPublicSubmission...
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #82 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27. 


Yes. Even back to Aarhenius and Callendar they predicted any warming benign. It was warmer in the MWP and the Roman Optimum which is why they are still discovering artifacts revealed by retreating glaciers, Roll Eyes


Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you.

Quote:
The same technology merely larger blades. Roll Eyes


Nonsense - massive technical advance behind the prowess of modern engineers. 

Quote:
Nope. Merely larger. Roll Eyes


Refuted above.

Quote:
Nope Charles Court between 1974 and 1982. Roll Eyes

"Western Australia has had a domestic gas policy since the 1970s when
Sir Charles Court's Government negotiated domestic gas supply with the North West
Shelf Joint Venture. "

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/commit.nsf/luInquiryPublicSubmission...


And apparently Carpenter had to go through the whole negotiation process again with Chevron, while the Eastern states folded. 
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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #83 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm:
Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you.


Define Rest of the World. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm:
Nonsense - massive technical advance behind the prowess of modern engineers. 


Nonsense. An incremental advance at best.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm:
Refuted above.


Rubbish. You have refuted nothing. But it is your Go-To phrase when backed into a corner. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm:
And apparently Carpenter had to go through the whole negotiation process again with Chevron, while the Eastern states folded. 


And nowhere did I say different. He merely updated the contracts from 30 odd years earlier. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #84 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:12pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1666851348/82#82 date=1668312330]Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you.


Define Rest of the World. Roll Eyes

The UN.


Quote:
Nonsense. An incremental advance at best.


nevertheless a single modern windmill can power multiple homes

Quote:
And nowhere did I say different. He merely updated the contracts from 30 odd years earlier. Roll Eyes


Liar.
He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.   The Eastern states folded, of course, desperate for local job creation.... exorbitant prices for local consumers not withstanding.
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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #85 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:33pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
The UN.


The UN is an unrepresentative body that is NOT the rest of the world. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
nevertheless a single modern windmill can power multiple homes


And it still suffers the same limitations. No wind means no electricity. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
Liar.


Then show me where I said different. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.


Did he? Can you show me where he said that? The SMH link doesn't. Roll Eyes

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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #86 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:14pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:33pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
The UN.


The UN is an unrepresentative body that is NOT the rest of the world. Roll Eyes


Er..representing all 193 nations on the planet..

Quote:
And it still suffers the same limitations. No wind means no electricity. Roll Eyes


Not with pumped hydro storage backup-  that other "primitive" technology

Quote:
Did he? Can you show me where he said that? The SMH link doesn't. Roll Eyes



Doesn't it? Try this: 

A little over a decade ago, then-West Australian premier Alan Carpenter had his back against the wall.

Global oil and gas giants determined the new wave of Liquified Natural Gas investment would not be subject to WA's longstanding gas reservation policy, and were threatening to back away from Australia, to put their money elsewhere.

Federal pollies with a view no further than the next election were mustering behind the oil giants, seduced by the short-term sugar hit the construction would deliver.

Local industry and power companies, meanwhile, were sounding nervous warnings about the potential impact on domestic gas supplies and prices.

The showdown came in mid-2006 in Perth. United States-based multinational Exxon had a team of executives in Australia running the numbers over the viability of the giant Gorgon gas project off the north-west coast.

According to some present at the meeting, the Exxon team delivered an ultimatum. Unless "every molecule of gas" was available for export, they would walk away from the Gorgon project, in which they held a one-third share.

Carpenter stood his ground. He thanked them for their efforts and said, if that was the case then, regrettably, the project was dead and they had nothing further to discuss.

Carpenter stood his ground. He thanked them for their efforts and said, if that was the case then, regrettably, the project was dead and they had nothing further to discuss.

Within 24 hours, the Exxon executives, in a slightly more accommodative tone, requested another meeting in which they helpfully declared that, having re-crunched the numbers, they were confident they could meet both domestic and export requirements.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-23/the-case-for-an-east-coast-gas-reservatio...

Greedy a**holes just couldn't walk away, even after all their huffing and puffing...

Actually Carpenter should have pissed them off, and nationalized the project. And now the government could  close it down in a timely fashion, ie, ASAP.

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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #87 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:22pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:14pm:
Er..representing all 193 nations n the lanet..



Which doesn't make them representative of everyone. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:14pm:
Not with pumped hydro storage backup-  that other "primitive" technology


Please show where pumped hydro is primitive. So you agree that wind power is not able to provide baseload power. Thanks for that. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:14pm:
Doesn't it?


No it doesn't. That's why you provided a new link.

And nothing in your follow up link says anything about "vicious attacks".

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:14pm:
Actually Carpenter should have pissed them off, and nationalized the project.


How can one state "nationalize" anything? Roll Eyes

Once again your emotions are carrying you along. Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #88 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:22pm:
......



They all turned up to COP27 representing everyone,  except die hard fossil price gougers (apart from c.600 fossil reps promoting green-washing)... and AGW-CO2 climate deniers.

Quote:
Please show where pumped hydro is primitive. So you agree that wind power is not able to provide baseload power. Thanks for that. Roll Eyes


er.. you claimed wind power is primitive (old technology); I thought I'd point out hydro - whether for producing electricity or storing it , is also old technology  which can be utilised using modern engineering to wean us off fossils. 

Quote:
No it doesn't. That's why you provided a new link.


No, I provided the new link because you said the SMH article didn't outline how the fossil companies stood over - and  resisted  - Carpenter who had the interests  of WA citizens uppermost.   

Quote:
And nothing in your follow up link says anything about "vicious attacks".


Greedy, lying, selfish bastards...not vicious enough for you? 

Quote:
How can one state "nationalize" anything? Roll Eyes


Good point. But as the article points out, the Feds were so terrified of losing the sugar hit of immediate jobs creation, they pressured the Eastern premiers to give  into the fossil profit and price gougers .

Quote:
Once again your emotions are carrying you along. Roll Eyes


Once again you are showing your limited powers of analysis and comprehension.   
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« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:55pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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lee
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Re: Finally A Budget That Delivers For Clean Energy
Reply #89 - Nov 13th, 2022 at 5:24pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
They all turned up to COP27 representing everyone,  except die hard fossil price gougers (apart from c.600 fossil reps promoting green-washing)... and AGW-CO2 climate deniers.


So they didn't turn up to represent everyone. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
er.. you claimed wind power is primitive (old technology); I thought I'd point out hydro - whether for producing electricity or storing it , is also old technology  which can be utilised using modern engineering to wean us off fossils. 


So you pointed out something that wasn't even inferred. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
No, I provided the new link because you said the SMH article didn't outline how the fossil companies stood over - and  resisted  - Carpenter who had the interests  of WA citizens uppermost.   


And I was right. The SMH article didn't. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
Greedy, lying, selfish bastards...not vicious enough for you? 



Nowhere in the piece you linked said anything like that. Roll Eyes


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
Good point.


Yep. So it was a lie. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm:
Once again you are showing your limited powers of analysis and comprehension.   



Never mind Gweggy. Roll Eyes
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