Australian Politics Forum - Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked

lee

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #30 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 11:47am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 11:05am:

Having an above-poverty floor for universal wellbeing is not "making the wealthy as poor as the poor". The issue is just distribution of a nation's output to ensure an above poverty minimum via universal participation.

So an average then. Lift up the poor to the average. Reduce the rich to the average. And expect the rich to keep funding the poor, whilst actually making and selling things with no risk. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 11:05am:

And you are complicit in that war, by insisting on maintaining theobsolete concept of absolute national sovereignty, which is incompatible with international law outlawing war.

You really let yourself go on hyperbole don't you? Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #31 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 12:19pm

lee wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 11:47am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 11:05am:

Having an above-poverty floor for universal wellbeing is not "making the wealthy as poor as the poor". The issue is just distribution of a nation's output to ensure an above poverty minimum via universal participation.

So an average then.Lift up the poor to the average. Reduce the rich to the average

Wrong again. At least this off topic discussion might result in educating you.

No; a range of reward for participation, with a guaranteed above poverty minimum.

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And expect the rich to keep funding the poor, whilst actually making and selling things with no risk. Grin

No, the rich don't need to fund the poor, that's just your obsolete <private sector as sole wealth creator> meme.

"money doesn't grow on rich people" Stephanie Kelton.

The public sector can also be a wealth creator, contributing to the nation's total output.

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You really let yourself go on hyperbole don't you? Grin

I like a rational, logical argument; where's the hyperbole in insisting on outlawing war as a means of dispute settlement between nations, via establishment of international law?

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lee

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #32 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 2:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

No; a range of reward for participation, with a guaranteed above poverty minimum.

So pay non-workers more because they deserve it. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

No, the rich don't need to fund the poor, that's just your obsolete <private sector as sole wealth creator> meme.

Then there is only fiat MMT, the non-inflationary payment. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

The public sector can also be a wealth creator, contributing to the nation's total output.

Rubbish. The public sector is a drain not a fountain. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

I like a rational, logical argument; where's the hyperbole in insisting on outlawing war as a means of dispute settlement between nations, via establishment of international law?

When you extend it to my supposed complicity. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #33 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm

lee wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 2:40pm:

So pay non-workers more because they deserve it. Grin

No; guarantee employment for all, there is almost an unlimited amount of useful work to be done (whether in the public or private sectors) and no lack of resources (in rich nations) which would preclude above poverty wages for all.

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Then there is only fiat MMT, the non-inflationary payment. Grin

Since the abandonment of the gold standard, all nations' currencies are fiat; the issue is national productive capacity, not the illusion of 'commodity' money.

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Rubbish. The public sector is a drain not a fountain. Roll Eyes

Education (and public infrastructure) is a MAJOR contributor to a nation's productive capacity. So you are wrong, I accept your concession.

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When you extend it to my supposed complicity. Grin

You ARE complicit, so long as you insist on the obsolete concept of absolute national sovereignty.

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lee

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #34 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:59pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

No; guarantee employment for all, there is almost an unlimited amount of useful work to be done (whether in the public or private sectors) and no lack of resources (in rich nations) which would preclude above poverty wages for all.

Now all you have to do is convince everyone that they want to be employed. What about sit down money? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

Since the abandonment of the gold standard, all nations' currencies are fiat; the issue is national productive capacity, not the illusion of 'commodity' money.

Bullshit.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

Education (and public infrastructure) is a MAJOR contributor to a nation's productive capacity.

And yet it comes on the back of taxation. Not some fountain of money but a drain on taxpayers.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

So you are wrong, I accept your concession.

Now you show exactly how little you know. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

You ARE complicit, so long as you insist on the obsolete concept of absolute national sovereignty.

No I am not. You are really. really stupid if you genuinely believe that. Absolute national sovereignty doesn't give anyone the right to wage war. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #35 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm

lee wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

No; guarantee employment for all, there is almost an unlimited amount of useful work to be done (whether in the public or private sectors) and no lack of resources (in rich nations) which would preclude above poverty wages for all.

Now all you have to do is convince everyone that they want to be employed. What about sit down money? Roll Eyes

Given the choice between full participation in the nation's social and economic life, at above poverty level; and wasting away in isolation on below poverty welfare.....

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Bullshit.

er...you need to state your argument....

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And yet it comes on the back of taxation. Not some fountain of money but a drain on taxpayers.

That IS the convention....and an evil convention at that, designed to enrich usurious private sector money lenders who at present have the sole privilege of creating money.

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Now you show exactly how little you know. Roll Eyes

I just explained your error above - with you playing into the hands of usurious private sector money lenders - the centuries-old system of money creation which will soon be forced into the dustbin of history.

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No I am not. You are really. really stupid if you genuinely believe that. Absolute national sovereignty doesn't give anyone the right to wage war. Roll Eyes

It ensures nations WILL wage war when they think it is to their own advantage, as history demonstrates, regardless of any "right" to make war.

Self-interest among a nation's leaders (ignoring the people who don't want war) means only international law outlawing war can prevent war.

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« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:35pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #36 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

Given the choice between full participation in the nation's social and economic life, at above poverty level; and wasting away in isolation on below poverty welfare.....

Sop not everyone wants to work. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

er...you need to state your argument....

Why your was pure Bullshit. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

That IS the convention....and an evil convention at that, designed to enrich usurious private sector money lenders who at present have the sole privilege of creating money.

So tell me about these lenders of last resort that lend to the schools? The Reserve Bank is private? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

I just explained your error above - with you playing into the hands of usurious private sector money lenders - the centuries-old system of money creation which will soon be forced into the dustbin of history.

You just explained your own biased view, Nothing to do with the real world. You talk bullamacow. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

It ensures nations WILL wage war when they think it is to their own advantage, as history demonstrates, regardless of any "right" to make war.

No it does not. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

Supposed self-interest means only international law outlawing war can prevent war.

More rubbish. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Renewable Energy Projects Fast-Tracked
Reply #37 - Oct 24^th, 2022 at 6:05pm

lee wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

Given the choice between full participation in the nation's social and economic life, at above poverty level; and wasting away in isolation on below poverty welfare.....

Sop not everyone wants to work. Roll Eyes

See how the Right fall back on that false proposition; they hold to a system in which unemployment is built in - aka the NAIRU (google it); and then blame the unemployed for their predicament, by insisting people would rather be unemployed and on the dole. Sheer evil.

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Why your was pure Bullshit. Roll Eyes

Every time you reply you dig a bigger hole for yourself, while learning a little bit more each time.

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So tell me about these lenders of last resort that lend to the schools? The Reserve Bank is private? Roll Eyes

The reserve bank is forbidden to create debt free money on behalf of the public sector, that is THE criminal system enforced by the cabal of central bankers dedicated to enriching the private lenders to whom they are beholden.

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You just explained your own biased view, Nothing to do with the real world. You talk bullamacow. Roll Eyes

Time will tell, another pandemic will cause the collapse of the current evil system, as central banks end up owing trillions to private money lenders, which taxpayers will never be able to repay.

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More rubbish. Roll Eyes

again, you didn't explain why it's rubbish.

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