Australian Politics Forum - The Australian Wars

Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 31472 Gender:	Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Reply #420 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:27pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28^th, 2022 at 10:24am: snip the insane ramblings of an old right wing fool I have shamed many times The only one shamed here is your pathetic insipid self.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #421 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:27pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

No, by possession of tribal lands.

So they possessed the land, then.

Isn't possession 9/10 of the law?

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #422 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:29pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28^th, 2022 at 9:28pm:

As Jordan Peterson said - discussing and analysing something doesn't mean you approve or disapprove of it... it's discussion and analysis....

crappler by name, crap by nature

You're not discussing and analyzing anything, You're arguing for your already formed opinion. All you do is reject out of hand anything contrary to your position and when called on it you play the 'i'm just discussing it' card ....

You and Jordan should learn the difference

Such a sage .... you numpty Smithy

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #423 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:35pm

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 29^th, 2022 at 12:52pm:

...I didn't notice any of those Tasmanian 'Aborigines' rejecting the culture they now live in with all its benefits... and with the clear women shortage down there, it is doubtful that many of the men would have been breeding with white women, but certain that many of the women would be breeding with white men - so their gene pool would by now be very thin.

Some facts about Tasmanian Aborigines.

Tasmania (known then as Van Diemen’s Land until 1855) was occupied for at
least 30,000 years by a hunter-gatherer people, the Tasmanian Aborigines,
whose population in 1803 was estimated at 7,000 individuals from an
original population of 15,000.

Contrary to a long and widely held belief that they were a stone age people
who were destined to die out as a result of 10,000 years of isolation from the
Australian mainland, more recent research indicates that they were a dynamic
people who not only reshaped their culture and society during the Holocene,
but were increasing in population at British colonisation in 1803.

By 1835 only one Aboriginal family remained in Tasmania.

The vast majority had been killed, or had died from introduced disease, or had
been forcibly removed from their homeland. The only survivors were those who
escaped government control—in a sealing community on the Bass Strait islands.

British imperial genocide at its best... or worst. Angry

Bullshyte ... why are there more Aboriginals or people identifying as Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before?

BTW they didn't escape control by going to a sealing community on a Bass Strait island - they were moved there.

Did you think they swam over?

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #424 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:18am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

200 years of ethnic cleansing yet there are still enough traditional owners left to claim this Goat Island?

Of course theree were survivors of the frontier wars,

Quote:

I would have thought that after 200 years of this ethnic cleansing there would not have been any left.

You'd be wrong.

Quote:

Funny that there are also more Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before ..... a place where all the Aboriginals were supposed to have been shot out or shipped to offshore Bass Strait Islands where they died out. Roll Eyes

Yes, confusion over the term "aboriginal" is rife.

There were no frontier wars ... pure fantasy

The word 'Aboriginal" is more pertinent than Indigenous or the mega trendy "First Nations".

1. because anyone born of this land is Indigenous to it.

2. because there were no "nations" here pre: 1788 just nomadic tribal groups.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #425 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:43pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:18am:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

200 years of ethnic cleansing yet there are still enough traditional owners left to claim this Goat Island?

Of course theree were survivors of the frontier wars,

Quote:

I would have thought that after 200 years of this ethnic cleansing there would not have been any left.

You'd be wrong.

Quote:

Funny that there are also more Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before ..... a place where all the Aboriginals were supposed to have been shot out or shipped to offshore Bass Strait Islands where they died out. Roll Eyes

Yes, confusion over the term "aboriginal" is rife.

There were no frontier wars ... pure fantasy

The word 'Aboriginal" is more pertinent than Indigenous or the mega trendy "First Nations".

1. because anyone born of this land is Indigenous to it.

2. because there were no "nations" here pre: 1788 just nomadic tribal groups.

Isn't that using English semantics to justify dispossession?

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #426 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:50pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant.

It wasn't left as a legal nicety, it was the basis for all land acquisition throughout Australia without the need for negotiations or agreements with Aboriginal peoples.

It became the founding principle for legal dispossession.

Which is what happened all over the globe ... not just by the British

Why do peoples from Mexico south throughout the whole Sth American continent speak Spanish?

Excepting Brazil that speaks another European language - Portuguese.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #427 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

Reprise - takes another bow:-

Well - I guess they didn't learn their lesson at Appin all those years ago after running around and murdering more than sixteen Whites, including women and children, in their ethnic cleansing/genocide against Whites ... and when Whartey cunningly snuck up on them and caught them napping while in hiding and took down fourteen armed combatants in a melee in the dark with a few not so innocent bystanders included.

When you run with the wild dogs killing sheep - you die with the wild dogs....

Now they run around murdering society by proxy while feeding off it .... and nobody mounts an operation against them... instead all the spiritually, morally and cerebrally blind, mentally lame and halt, and drug-addled on New City Hall Righteousness (NCHR) actually change history to make it into something it never was.

They stand at the gates (gatekeepers), lumping people (as the generationophobes do) into neat little boxes in their own minds, like Dr Mengele - and determine on a purely arbitrary basis which facts and reports and histories will be sent to work for the cause and which will go to the Social Scientist gas chambers...

Blacks raping and murdering women and children - GOOD! Whites killing combatants and taking children into protection - BAD!

Seriously - this country has become very, very sick.

Much of the world is in trouble, as Guterres said (to which your reply was: zzzzzzzzzzzz, - an indication of your grasp of reality.

Now, the reason why people want to rewrite black history in Oz is to provide an explaination of why the egregious and disgraceful gap exists.

But like I said, the survival and transition of an illiterate hunter-gatherer society which possessed no technology at all (apart from animal skins for clothing in cold regions?) is an extremely complex task.

You were on course with your previous post: assisted training to enter the modern world's economy.

To be sure, if you want to measure the cost of this training in dollars, and force the government to tax or borrow the money, the project loses its appeal.....

But Oz has all the resources it needs to train 100K or more blacks to enter the modern economy.

However, since everyone's fooled by the current central bank arrangements, that task won't be achieved.

First Australians had a lot more technology than that but yes, they were ripped from their way of life into one they did not know

Absolute bullshyte.

I am glad you are recognising your contribution to this debate, Gnads finally. All you have contributed is bullshit, Racism pure and simple. What a WOFTAM. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

And you just a SJW hypocrite..... who sprouts bullshyte ad infinitum.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #428 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:55pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

Complete fallacy ... want to prove it otherwise?

Aboriginals were never listed as fauna.

That's something often attributed to Aboriginal people ... saying they belong to the land not the land belonging to them.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Brian Ross

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #429 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 7:31pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

Reprise - takes another bow:-

Well - I guess they didn't learn their lesson at Appin all those years ago after running around and murdering more than sixteen Whites, including women and children, in their ethnic cleansing/genocide against Whites ... and when Whartey cunningly snuck up on them and caught them napping while in hiding and took down fourteen armed combatants in a melee in the dark with a few not so innocent bystanders included.

When you run with the wild dogs killing sheep - you die with the wild dogs....

Now they run around murdering society by proxy while feeding off it .... and nobody mounts an operation against them... instead all the spiritually, morally and cerebrally blind, mentally lame and halt, and drug-addled on New City Hall Righteousness (NCHR) actually change history to make it into something it never was.

They stand at the gates (gatekeepers), lumping people (as the generationophobes do) into neat little boxes in their own minds, like Dr Mengele - and determine on a purely arbitrary basis which facts and reports and histories will be sent to work for the cause and which will go to the Social Scientist gas chambers...

Blacks raping and murdering women and children - GOOD! Whites killing combatants and taking children into protection - BAD!

Seriously - this country has become very, very sick.

Much of the world is in trouble, as Guterres said (to which your reply was: zzzzzzzzzzzz, - an indication of your grasp of reality.

Now, the reason why people want to rewrite black history in Oz is to provide an explaination of why the egregious and disgraceful gap exists.

But like I said, the survival and transition of an illiterate hunter-gatherer society which possessed no technology at all (apart from animal skins for clothing in cold regions?) is an extremely complex task.

You were on course with your previous post: assisted training to enter the modern world's economy.

To be sure, if you want to measure the cost of this training in dollars, and force the government to tax or borrow the money, the project loses its appeal.....

But Oz has all the resources it needs to train 100K or more blacks to enter the modern economy.

However, since everyone's fooled by the current central bank arrangements, that task won't be achieved.

First Australians had a lot more technology than that but yes, they were ripped from their way of life into one they did not know

Absolute bullshyte.

I am glad you are recognising your contribution to this debate, Gnads finally. All you have contributed is bullshit, Racism pure and simple. What a WOFTAM. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

And you just a SJW hypocrite..... who sprouts bullshyte ad infinitum.

Care to demonstrate where I have supposedly done that, Gnads? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #430 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 7:51pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:50pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant.

It wasn't left as a legal nicety, it was the basis for all land acquisition throughout Australia without the need for negotiations or agreements with Aboriginal peoples.

It became the founding principle for legal dispossession.

Which is what happened all over the globe ... not just by the British

Why do peoples from Mexico south throughout the whole Sth American continent speak Spanish?

Excepting Brazil that speaks another European language - Portuguese.

So, you're saying: it's not that the British didn't dispossess aboriginals, it's that others perpetrated the same dispossession on peoples all over the globe.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #431 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 7:54pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:55pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

Complete fallacy ... want to prove it otherwise?

Aboriginals were never listed as fauna.

That's something often attributed to Aboriginal people ... saying they belong to the land not the land belonging to them.

I'm asking you if you would say they were like fauna.

You admit they possessws the land but say they didn't own it.

How is that not just semantics?

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #432 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:45pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:26pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

In LEGAL terms, and spiritually, yes. You can't make a treaty with people who do not have the concepts of a treaty and what it might cover and what it might not.

So they could be legally cleared from the land like the thylacine?

Yes. And they were. There was no recognised LEGAL reason for them to be left anywhere they claimed to belong. Harsh reality.
They simply had no recognisable claim under recognisable law.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #433 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:31pm

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:26pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

In LEGAL terms, and spiritually, yes. You can't make a treaty with people who do not have the concepts of a treaty and what it might cover and what it might not.

So they could be legally cleared from the land like the thylacine?

Yes. And they were. There was no recognised LEGAL reason for them to be left anywhere they claimed to belong. Harsh reality.
They simply had no recognisable claim under recognisable law.

And human cultural memory of injustice is forever.

In totalitarian states, it ends in concentration camps and a hail of bullets.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #434 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:22pm

So - what is the answer for today's Aborigines? Not a voice, that's for sure.

When a genuine local says that those who may be on the land council but are not part of that area, do not speak for that land..... you can see the massive division amongst them now - how much worse will it be with a elected body, all disagreeing about what should be done?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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