Australian Politics Forum - The Australian Wars

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15285 Gender:	Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Reply #105 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:06am aquascoot wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:48am: because billions of dollars of programs run out of canberra is about as big an example of cognitive dissonance as i have ever seen Other than bullets in the heads of an aboriginal clan for trespassing on a pastoral lease and stealing, then eating, a sheep.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #106 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:19am

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:11pm:

It is a truth that no matter how many treaties are signed, or how many truth commissions are held, the intention is not to reconcile but rather to reinforce a permanent sense of guilt in mainstream Australians. And it is a truth that in the wretched Indigenous settlements little will change as a result.

Agreed; something else is required to fix that wretchedness.

The CDEP was a start, unfortunately cancelled by neoliberal market ideologues who expect people to lift themselves out of the generational poverty and social dysfunction into which they sank, in those settlements.

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But you know what isn’t the truth? Claiming whitey is the source of all Indigenous misery.

Of course there was plenty of misery on the First Fleet also, and still plenty of economic hardship among many non-blacks in Oz; misery has personal as well as external causes - see how your extreme 'personal responsibility' mantra leads you astray?

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Reconcile that progs
As always, you are all carried away by idiotic ideology.

addressed above; your conservative, extreme 'personal responsibilty' mantra has much to answer for the economic dysfunction (unemployment, homelessnes) in modern times, including in black communities.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:25am by thegreatdivide »

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aquascoot

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #107 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:27am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:06am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:48am:

because billions of dollars of programs run out of canberra is about as big an example of cognitive dissonance as i have ever seen

Other than bullets in the heads of an aboriginal clan for trespassing on a pastoral lease and stealing, then eating, a sheep.

bullet in the head or learned helplessness where you turn to grog and drugs and bad food to numb the pain and die slow.

its the same end result

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #108 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:45am

aquascoot wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 7:48am:

cognitive dissonance on both sides.
the right just steam rolled over them but the left throwing money at them and infantalising them and failing to see the destructiveness of learned helplessness is just as bad.

Yes, yet when the CDEP offered them the chance to learn participation in the economy and the independence of an earned wage, extremist market ideologues came along and destroyed the CDEP.

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we have much to learn from the aborigine,
not by making him a proffesional victim but by letting him teach what comes naturally,an appreciation of the simple life, a relationship with nature, resilience and a cheeky fun loving acceptance of the harsh reality of nature.

Is it at all pratical to have people living a stone age existence in a country like Oz? A wholly hunter-gatherer economy is impossible, for a start, since most of the more productive country is in private hands.

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the left want to educate him and make him fit for purpose as another chode in a shirt and tie working as a cog in the mattrix. they think he cant be happy living without all the tech and the whitegoods that the leftie sees as 'comfort", but he can.

Refuted above. I reckon cars, and modern transport for example, might be as 'desirable' to blacks as they are to you and me.

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the true aborigine loves the bush, he loves walkabout, he doesnt want your silly education programs to groom him to become another cog in the machine.

Maybe, but 'the bush' has been forever irrevocably changed by white settlement.... and the Simpson desert is not very congenial.

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ave any of the do-gooders from canberra ever gone to a community and actually asked him what he wants.

Tony Abbot, as PM, actually lived in a community or two, to understand the issues.

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because billions of dollars of programs run out of canberra is about as big an example of cognitive dissonance as i have ever seen

yes, unless you provide appropriate economic participation (as in the CDEP), all such welfare-type programs are a waste of money.

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bullet in the head or learned helplessness where you turn to grog and drugs and bad food to numb the pain and die slow.

its the same end result

r
correct, but it's impossible - for any group or individal - to ignore economic realities of the modern world.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:52am by thegreatdivide »

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #109 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:56am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 7:45pm:

1946 is not 1788 - and there was no retrospective clause.... how could there possibly be?

Do they accept social security and all other government handouts etc? Then they are citizens and have no other sovereignty unless they are to formally secede and bring on the long awaited civil war...... if they were born here they were born as Australian citizens only - if they declare themselves Non-Australians they cede all benefits ...there is no argument about sovereignty.

Your partisans are speaking to you of an utter lack of sovereignty and government dead for over two hundred years..... do not touch the crosses......

I predicted that under the Albanese New Labor International government virtually every day would bring us closer to that civil war... should I organise a sweep?

First they hate on Australia Day, now they hate on the late QE II.... burn flags and so forth....

Yet this is labeled 'disturbing' - good for goose - not good for gander.

The idiots were burning English & Australian flags & ranting about burning things down because of things from the past whilst speaking that it is happening now. Saying the Aboriginals are currently at "war" with non Aboriginals .... whilst including anyone black or brown & Asian that was not Aboriginals because they are all marginalised. Roll Eyes

If that were true & things are the same now as in the late 1700s they would have all been arrested, and some may have been shot, as may have happened over 200 years ago.

It's all about reparations/paying the rent so they can continue to sit on their arses for another 2 centuries.

Lydia Thorpe was in amongst it in Melbourne screaming about genocide.

Ship the bitch up to West Papua so she can see people suffering genocide first hand.

Maybe then she'd realise how lucky she is.

Especially now she has been parachuted into a $200,000 plus a year job .... just for identifying as Aboriginal.

She can hand that back anytime she wants.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:05am by Gnads »

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #110 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:59am

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:19am:

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:11pm:

It is a truth that no matter how many treaties are signed, or how many truth commissions are held, the intention is not to reconcile but rather to reinforce a permanent sense of guilt in mainstream Australians. And it is a truth that in the wretched Indigenous settlements little will change as a result.

Agreed; something else is required to fix that wretchedness.

The CDEP was a start, unfortunately cancelled by neoliberal market ideologues who expect people to lift themselves out of the generational poverty and social dysfunction into which they sank, in those settlements.

Quote:

But you know what isn’t the truth? Claiming whitey is the source of all Indigenous misery.

Of course there was plenty of misery on the First Fleet also, and still plenty of economic hardship among many non-blacks in Oz; misery has personal as well as external causes - see how your extreme 'personal responsibility' mantra leads you astray?

Quote:

Reconcile that progs
As always, you are all carried away by idiotic ideology.

addressed above; your conservative, extreme 'personal responsibilty' mantra has much to answer for the economic dysfunction (unemployment, homelessnes) in modern times, including in black communities.

Do you have anything besides the scrapped CDEP to harp on about?

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #111 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:07am

The Livid Thorpe Aboriginal nomenclature are hellbent on keeping Aborigines in permanent victimhood straightjackets.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1572952607420817409

They are building a permanent narrative straightjacket of victimhood and entitlement, shackles of welfare dependency, family violence, child sexual abuse, drug and alcohol problems, unemployability.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #112 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 6:41pm

Frank wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:07am:

The Livid Thorpe Aboriginal nomenclature are hellbent on keeping Aborigines in permanent victimhood straightjackets.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1572952607420817409

They are building a permanent narrative straightjacket of victimhood and entitlement, shackles of welfare dependency, family violence, child sexual abuse, drug and alcohol problems, unemployability.

You're preaching to the converted here.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #113 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 9:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 3:28pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:22am:

Bit 'ard to make any war out of it when any group, according to the first episode, had no more than twenty men to do the fighting.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dhx84hjU0AARs8F.jpg

Obviously you didn't watch it. Pemulwray was said to have up to a 100 men in one raiding party. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

They SAID he assembled 100 men from different groups none of which had more than twenty. Obviously YOU didn't watch it.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #114 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 10:03pm

Been meanin' to do this, but busy today... per the Appin Massacre - though it is hard from the reports to get actual numbers all round - it appears that the total Aborigines killed reported was 19 - the number of Whites. including women and children.... 16, with 5 women and an unreported number of children, probably more.

As I said - mentions are made in the reports of White children being killed etc, but no numbers.

You know - before you all start crying about the evil troopers kullin' the Blacks... you might want to pause for a while and see who the Blacks were killing at the same time.

Did your heroic program mention any of those heartless massacres of innocents? If it were your family, what would be your response?

Funny thing is - every time some dork comes along with some great idea of re-writing history, and people with any nous start to look into it to see for themselves from records etc, the more they see that the whole scenario being put across is BS.

Some of you arseholes think it was fine for the Abos to kill women and children - never mentioned in your fantasy story on TV - but when the troopers retaliated and killed a few women and children in a melee in the dark - YOU CRY AND CRY about how the poor Blacks were massacred at Appin!

The more I see of this the more disgusted I become with the history re-writer fantasists and their lies - and the more I become alienated from your Noble Abos.

Maybe the idiots should have left it well enough alone before the truth came out.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #115 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:11am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 10:03pm:

The more I see of this the more disgusted I become with the history re-writer fantasists and their lies - and the more I become alienated from your Noble Abos.

Maybe the idiots should have left it well enough alone before the truth came out.

There's something you need to accept - the history you were taught as a child was biased towards the colonists. It whitewashed (pardon the pun) atrocities committed by the British, then Australian, authorities out of non-indigenous memory. Australianism became defined through 'wild colonial boys', a sheep rustling swagman, convicts as happy scamps, salt-of-the-earth non-indigenous farmers, gold prospectors, European entrepreneurs and explorers - anything but native peoples' heroics.

However, here's the thing - this is not about right vs wrong; it's about right vs right and wrongs committed for wrongs done.

In the case of the convicts, as depraved as most of them were, did not come to Australia by choice, and yet were forced to survive by any means necessary.

The free colonists may have come here by choice but, equally, once here, were also forced to survive by any means necessary.

In this struggle for survival, violent conflict between aboriginal peoples and colonists was guaranteed.

Not only that, the harsh truth is that it is irreconcilable. Ethno-chauvinism is innate in humans as is the longevity of cultural memory - as countless world conflicts confirm.

There will never be a time when aboriginal peoples will feel compensated (no matter what reparations are delivered).

Grievance culture can and does span hundreds of years, if not millennia.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #116 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:47am

Gnads wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 8:19am:

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2022 at 8:11pm:

It is a truth that no matter how many treaties are signed, or how many truth commissions are held, the intention is not to reconcile but rather to reinforce a permanent sense of guilt in mainstream Australians. And it is a truth that in the wretched Indigenous settlements little will change as a result.

Agreed; something else is required to fix that wretchedness.

The CDEP was a start, unfortunately cancelled by neoliberal market ideologues who expect people to lift themselves out of the generational poverty and social dysfunction into which they sank, in those settlements.

Quote:

But you know what isn’t the truth? Claiming whitey is the source of all Indigenous misery.

Of course there was plenty of misery on the First Fleet also, and still plenty of economic hardship among many non-blacks in Oz; misery has personal as well as external causes - see how your extreme 'personal responsibility' mantra leads you astray?

Quote:

Reconcile that progs
As always, you are all carried away by idiotic ideology.

addressed above; your conservative, extreme 'personal responsibilty' mantra has much to answer for the economic dysfunction (unemployment, homelessnes) in modern times, including in black communities.

Do you have anything besides the scrapped CDEP to harp on about?

Yes: the gap...which must be eradicated, one way or another.

Simply ahouting 'personal responsibility' is NOT going to close the gap.

And neither is a voice or a treaty.

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Jasin

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #117 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 7:03am

Yadda wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 10:25pm:

We all have noticed, that Australian Aboriginals have/exhibit a lot of cultural pride.

To me, it looks like an intent, ....to re-write Australian Aboriginal history.

Not so ?

And now its all about the 'Australian Wars'.

A story/narrative for TV which won't be presented to us, in anything but the unvarnished truth, about the noble Aboriginal resistance to the White invaders.

And no racial vilification will be presented ?

Just a truthful history story, to bring the Australian nation together ? .....just like President Biden promised [in 2020], in the U.S.

IMAGE.....
https://www.cultureislife.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/SBS-The-Australian-Wars...

The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
In recognition of the documentary’s immense educational value, Blackfella Films and SBS Learn will collaborate with Culture is Life to publish curriculum-aligned education resources about the Frontier Wars.

https://www.cultureislife.org/education/resources/the-australian-wars/

Well considering the Eora and other surrounding Aborigines got on extremely well with the young British Penal Colony in what is recognised historically as one of the most 'harmonious' examples of colonisation.

I can only guess that any 'violence' that came regarding Aborigines came from those 'Media' motivated Americans.

Good to see the Americanised Media of Australia manipulating things to create strife and division in the New Worlds as usual. Roll Eyes

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #118 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 10:32am

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:47am: