lee wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:


Yes I agree, apart from granting them another decade. 

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er...people can be sick while still alive...

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He proved it using the Minsky double-entry accounting program, which you didn't read because it takes some to time to study it.

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Minus nuclear? China is building 24 new plants at present, while planning to peak emissions from cheaper coal, by 2035. 

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And your poor conservative  brain crippled by 'literalism' couldn't see "I'm" in that sentence means the currency-issuing government, since the Job Guarantee is MMT policy. 

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Addressed above. The resources are there, stop stalling.

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You brought up your pension first, have you forgotten why?

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er...a one-party meritocracy might prove superior,  we will see; but if you are relying on blind-leading-the-blind elections, you deserve what you get.

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Sorry to be rocking your delusional 'sovereign individual'/freedom values' boat. You are in for a rude awakening, if an AGW emergency is real.

And in any case, global pollution resulting from unmanaged profit-seeking free market orthodoxy will  catch up with you in the end.

lee wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

2060 should do it.

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Google? 

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The point is, Keen has proved his case, as you would know if you were capable of reading it. 

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The world is transitioning, plans and no plans.... Suck it up.

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I do own them; the problem is your crippled literalist brain.


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Get back to me in 2030 to see how resource mobilzation is progressing. 

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Have you forgotten WHY we were discussing your circumstances? Hint: you first raised it, obviously, to make a point which you failed to prove. ....

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"Sun Chunlan (Chinese: 孙春兰; born 24 May 1950) is a retired Chinese politician. She served as the second-ranked Vice Premier of the People's Republic of China and the highest-ranking incumbent female government official until March 2023."

btw guess what democracy still  hasn't had  a female head of state....

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https://www.unep.org/interactive/air-pollution-note/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjryjBhD0ARIsA...

"Around four million people died in 2019 from exposure to fine particulate outdoor air pollution, with the highest death rates occurring in East Asia and Central Europe."


https://www.eea.europa.eu/soer/2015/global/pollution#:~:text=Globally%2C%20level...

European Environment Agency.
Increasing environmental pollution

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:


They don't have the study. Can you link it? Dummy. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



Double entry programs, even free ones like Minsky, don't prove anything. If you knew anything about basic accounting, you would know that. So now we know you don't know anything about accounting, but you still believe. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



Except Germany and the EU walking back. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



Nope. It must be your poor understanding of English, that you can't write comprehensively. Dummy

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



So you can't back it up. Pages of crap from you that you can't back up. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:


It follows this - "You are richer than 600 million people in China."

So tell me how rich is the richest of the 600 million. Dummy. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:


Yes Second Ranked. Never got past top 25.

"Top China Covid Fighter Is Woman Who Hit Party's Glass Ceiling "

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/sun-chunlan-top-china-covid-fighter-is-woman-71-...

You do understand "Glass Ceiling"? Dummy.

"Conversely, global brightening had contributed to the acceleration of global warming which began in the 1990s.[1][14]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming

Or all of it.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



Australia?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:



The UN? PM2.5? Dummy.

From your ref -

"Residential pollution, mostly from cooking and heating using biomass, and generating electricity from fossil fuels for our homes, and transport, are the main human-made sources of fine particles globally. Windblown dust is also a major source in portions of Africa and West Asia that are close to deserts."

Nothing there about fossil fuel pollution. You really do like statistical studies. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:45pm:


"For example, despite a fall in air pollutant emissions there has not been an equivalent improvement in air quality across Europe, partly as a result of the transboundary transport of air pollutants."

Wow. Did they really say that? Dummy.

They want to cut fertiliser use. See how well that went in Sri Lanka and ongoing in the Netherlands. Dummy.

And they are still using the RCP's. Notably the discredited, by the IPCC even, of RCP8.5. You really are a dummy.

"The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued
to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see
Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII)."

WG1 4.2.2

"“The IPCC concedes what many have contended all along by admitting ‘the likelihood of high emissions scenarios such as RCP8.5 . . . is considered low.’ Indeed, emissions in 2050 in the International Energy Agency’s current and stated policies scenarios are less than half the quantities projected by RCP8.5. The IPCC also tacitly acknowledges RCP8.5 no longer qualifies as a ‘no policy’ scenario since the vast majority of countries have climate policies.

“And yet, IPCC references RCP8.5 (and an equivalent emission scenario called SSP5-8.5) 1,359 times–more often than any other scenario. Maybe that’s why the IPCC declines to assess the ‘feasibility or likelihood’ of ‘individual scenarios’—otherwise RCP8.5 would be banished from the report!"

https://cei.org/news_releases/ipcc-report-relies-on-rcp-8-5-despite-determining-...

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 5:18pm:



Oh dear. Tell us how people would get on if fossil fuels were cut now.  Dummy.

Moore falsely claims to be a cofounder of Greenpeace. He also said that RoundUp is safe to drink but ran out of a radio station when offered some.

Oh yeah, you can believe him, if you are an idiot.

lee wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 6:10pm:


Of course they do; archived in this thread, which you reject.

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They prove treasury can in effect issue debt free money, which is the important point by which governments can be instituted to govern for the benefit of all. 

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Because men, still entranced by your  blind 'freedom values' ideology, still resort to war. Blind fools....
So Germany and the EU lost it's cheap Russian gas supply.


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Must be?  Wrong again; but don't worry, a well-run govt, will provide you with an above poverty job, if you are unable to compete in the profit-seeking private sector. 

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I see Cannon-Brookes is proceeding with his plan to build the biggest solar farm in the world....resources no problem.


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That wasn't the start - obviously I referred to your wealth for a reason. Go furhther  back to remind yourself why.

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Irrelevant, every nation has a billionaire(s), it's the poorest 600 million in China who urgently need an increase in living standards, with access to cheap energy during the transition to renewbles.   

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Yes, Gillard smashed it in Oz, no woman has done so in the US.

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"....generating electricity from fossil fuels for our homes" - oh dear....

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according to you. btw,Sustainable agriculture requires elimination of artificial fertilizers

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Which are not being inplemented in a timely manner because of denier 'freedom values' ideologues like you.

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Look at the deniers in full flight; yet sun and wind are free.

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People could have progressivly cheaper energy if treasuries and central banks - with their unlimited money-issuing capacity - bought the global fossil industry and funded the transition to sun and wind  power ASAP.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


I reject it because it doesn't say what you say it does. Nothing more nothing less. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:



Double entry bookkeeping doesn't prove anything. It relies on the information that you put in. It has no deterministic abilities. If you put Garbage In you get Garbage Out. Dummy.

All this from an economic know-it-all, who doesn't understand basic bookkeeping. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


So tell us where the EU and Germany are making war. Dummy

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


They lost their cheap Russian Gas supply because they wouldn't pay in roubles. You really need to comprehend what is in the news. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


And nothing to do with pensions or emissions. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


He is free to create his own green impossible dream. But I thought you didn't want greedy people having ownership. And you haven't shown resources are not a problem. Just a naive belief that they are all there for the whole globe. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


So now resile from that remark. Typical. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:



But you were the one saying I was richer than them. Just another throwaway line from a throwaway wannabe. Dummy. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


And the US is not China. But in the US they have a female V-P. Second place out of two places. Dummy.



thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:



No according to the IPCC. I even gave you the reference. Dummy.

As to artificial fertilisers you want to go back to night-carts and wholly natural fertilisers. Else agricultural output will drop. That will cause more than human misery but will cause wholesale death. Dummy. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:


So you don't want to discuss RCP8.5 which you said was merely my interpretation. Timely manner? Remember the German Green Dream? Australia has notionally about 30% renewables. That is timely. Dummy. 

"In 2021, 29% of Australia’s total electricity generation was from renewable energy sources, including solar (12%), wind (10%) and hydro (6%)."

https://www.energy.gov.au/data/renewables

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:



Oh dear. Falling back to his denier crap. Wind and sun are free. They also aren't dependable. Think cyclones. Why? Reasons include cloud cover and excess winds. Solar panels don't work well under clouds, and wind turbines need to be shuttered so as not to rip blades off. And that is only one weather event. Dummy.

But please feel free to expound on what is being denied. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:



But you were just paying homage to Cannon-Brookes, a greedy capitalist. Dummy.

Edit: BTW did you read that UN report? Comprehend it?

"In 2021, in response to increases in quality and quantity of evidence of air pollution impacts, the WHO updated the PM2.5 annual mean air quality guideline to 5µg/m3, which represents clean air as few impacts have been observed below these levels."

Annual level 5µg of PM2.5. What was the level of one cigarette? 7,000-10,000µg. Multiplied by a pack a day by 365. And pm2.5 is supposed to be dangerous.

lee wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 1:48pm:


Wrong; they say (correctly)  ffs pollute and poison the atmosphere

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regardless of Keen's method, government - the originator of fiat money - CAN be authourized to issue debt-free money to fund public expenditure, if the required resources are available for purchase in the nation's currncy.  Try engaging your brain. 

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YOU are complicit in the current war, as a consequence of your blind, conservative  individual national sovereighty ideology (which is why the UNSC veto was demanded by the US and USSR in 1946)..

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...because of US-led NATO sanctions; see how inadequate the conservative brain is? 

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You brouht up your pension; I exlained why China needs more time than a rich country like Oz.

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Certainly greedy  conservatives only dream  about maximising their own wealth; as to what is "impossible",  keep posted.

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I don't; but if visionaries like C-B can loosen th wallets of greedy private investors, all strength to him.

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I'm with C-B....

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You ARE richer than c. 600 million Chinese, if you are receiving a part pension in Oz. 

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Crippled conserative brain; you said the glass ceiling exists for women in China, forgetting the same applies to the US.

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The IPCC wants governements to exit ffs ASAP.

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no, rather introduce organic processes for rebuilding  soil re-vitalization and fertility status.

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No I'm not interested in 8.5, I want clean healthy air and cheap electricity for all. 

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Dear..it ain't "denier crap", it's very much consertiave ideilogy,  listen to Dutton and Co in parliament, which is why they will remain in oppostion for a decade...... 
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They are with the necessary storage; sun and wind are ALWAYS happening somewhere on the globe.   

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Irrelevant, see above.

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Denied by you?

1. ffs poisoning the atmosphere

2. price gouging by greedy private ff cartels.

3. the chance of catastrophic AGW caused by ff emissions, as surmied by the IPCC.    

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already ddressed above: see how inadequate the blind self-interested conservative brain is...again.

Note: C-B is not "greedy" but visionary, though he also successfully plays in the capitalist system (perhaps like Dick Smith who also has a social conscience, unlike you.)

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The reports noting severe consequences for health, from ff pollution, are the ones grabbing my attention.