Australian Politics Forum - The fallacy of the Greens

thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #405 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 3:36pm

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 3:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:35am:

hey...now in the USA!

Biden and Trump both know the US debt is meaningless, but they prefer to keep the population in the dark so they can push their own agendas, inc. 'America First', and to maximize the claims of the wealthy on the nation's output.

And now NOT in the USA. Roll Eyes

Wrong: the debt is ignored, while mainstream economists advise polies how to reduce the debt....hence the games re raising the "debt ceiling" every 5 years or so.

And central bankers bask in the obfuscation:

https://www.jordantimes.com/opinion/james-k-galbraith/whos-afraid-mmt

As anyone who has ever been responsible for legislative oversight of central bankers knows, they do not like to have their authority challenged. Most of all, they will defend their mystique, that magical aura that hovers over their words, shrouding a slushy mix of banality and baloney in a mist of power and jargon.

As a result, tormenting central bankers is great fun. John Maynard Keynes famously tormented Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England (BOE) from 1920 to 1944. Wright Patman and Henry Reuss, two US congressmen who chaired the House Banking Committee in the 1970s, did the same to Federal Reserve Chair Arthur Burns. I know that Reuss enjoyed it; I assisted him at the time.

Your cover is in the process of being blown...

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #406 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 5:05pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 3:36pm:

Wrong: the debt is ignored, while mainstream economists advise polies how to reduce the debt....hence the games re raising the "debt ceiling" every 5 years or so.

And central bankers bask in the obfuscation:

Ho hum. just another reminder that MMT rules ok? Grin

Just another unproven hypothesis trying to get Theory status. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #407 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 2:17pm

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 5:05pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 3:36pm:

Wrong: the debt is ignored, while mainstream economists advise polies how to reduce the debt....hence the games re raising the "debt ceiling" every 5 years or so.

And central bankers bask in the obfuscation:

Ho hum. just another reminder that MMT rules ok? Grin

Just another unproven hypothesis trying to get Theory status. Roll Eyes

Just an indication your neoclassical orthodoxy in on its death bed...

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Bobby.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #408 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 3:58pm

https://www.facebook.com/PaulineHansonAu/videos/551059457140459/

watch the video.

Anthony Albanese won't admit it when the cameras are on but Labor and the Greens are in a Coalition Government. Now the Greens are calling in their debts and it's you, the taxpayer, not Albanese, who will be forced to pay the price. Power plants are closing with nothing ready to replace them, electricity bills are going up, jobs are going overseas, and hundreds of thousands of migrants are being shipped into our overcrowded cities. Taxes are going up, red and green tape is increasing, the Greens are cheering, and all Albanese can talk about is his race-based Voice. Mark my words, if you are a Greens voter, one day you will wake up to yourself and realise the damage you have done. You will realise you fell for the Greens con and what they promised hasn't been delivered. Sadly, I fear that things will have to get a lot worse before people realise the mistake they are making. With Albanese and the Greens in charge, this might be sooner than you realise.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #409 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:19pm Pauline LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Bobby. Moderator Online Australian Politics Posts: 121325 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #410 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:21pm Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:19pm: Pauline LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Do you have a constructive comment backed by some form of argument?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #411 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:26pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 3:58pm:

https://www.facebook.com/PaulineHansonAu/videos/551059457140459/

watch the video.

Anthony Albanese won't admit it when the cameras are on but Labor and the Greens are in a Coalition Government. Now the Greens are calling in their debts and it's you, the taxpayer, not Albanese, who will be forced to pay the price. Power plants are closing with nothing ready to replace them, electricity bills are going up, jobs are going overseas, and hundreds of thousands of migrants are being shipped into our overcrowded cities. Taxes are going up, red and green tape is increasing, the Greens are cheering, and all Albanese can talk about is his race-based Voice. Mark my words, if you are a Greens voter, one day you will wake up to yourself and realise the damage you have done. You will realise you fell for the Greens con and what they promised hasn't been delivered. Sadly, I fear that things will have to get a lot worse before people realise the mistake they are making. With Albanese and the Greens in charge, this might be sooner than you realise.

Don't worry Bobby. I pointed out to Adam Bandt the other day that if he wants to fund sufficient public housing (other than via Labor's silly 'housing fund' stock-market gamble), he will have to look at what the heterodox economists are saying - because raising taxes is a political dead-end.

The Greens will come around sooner or later, as they get sick of their primary vote stuck c.10%, because everyone - like you - thinks currency-issuing governments are constrained by debt just like households, meaning the electorate is forced tp accept continuing government 'austerity'. .....

Flat earth neoliberal economics in full deranged flight..

Note: Oz has all the workers and materials it needs to build the public housing units it needs, therefore there will be no 'demand' inflation caused by the public spending.

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« Last Edit: Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:31pm by thegreatdivide »

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Bobby.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #412 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:29pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 3:58pm:

https://www.facebook.com/PaulineHansonAu/videos/551059457140459/

watch the video.

Anthony Albanese won't admit it when the cameras are on but Labor and the Greens are in a Coalition Government. Now the Greens are calling in their debts and it's you, the taxpayer, not Albanese, who will be forced to pay the price. Power plants are closing with nothing ready to replace them, electricity bills are going up, jobs are going overseas, and hundreds of thousands of migrants are being shipped into our overcrowded cities. Taxes are going up, red and green tape is increasing, the Greens are cheering, and all Albanese can talk about is his race-based Voice. Mark my words, if you are a Greens voter, one day you will wake up to yourself and realise the damage you have done. You will realise you fell for the Greens con and what they promised hasn't been delivered. Sadly, I fear that things will have to get a lot worse before people realise the mistake they are making. With Albanese and the Greens in charge, this might be sooner than you realise.

Don't worry Bobby. I pointed out to Adam Bandt the other day that if he wants to fund sufficient public housing (other than via Labor's silly 'housing fund' stock-market gamble), he will have to look at what the heterodox economists are saying - because raising taxes is a political dead-end.

The Greens will come around sooner or later, as they get sick of their primary vote support stuck c.10%, because everyone - like you - thinks currency-issuing governments are constrained by debt just like households, meaning the electorate is forced tp accept continuing governement 'austerity'. .....

Whenever they print money it causes inflation.
They can't keep doing that but they will.
It means those with savings are wiped out
and the Govt will have to support them -
no more self funded retirees.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 15591 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #413 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:34pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:29pm: Whenever they print money it causes inflation. see my edit: "Note: Oz has all the workers and materials it needs to build the public housing units it needs, therefore there will be no 'demand' inflation caused by the public spending."
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Bobby.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #414 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:29pm:

Whenever they print money it causes inflation.

see my edit:

"Note: Oz has all the workers and materials it needs to build the public housing units it needs, therefore there will be no 'demand' inflation caused by the public spending."

Every dollar they print causes inflation.

Anyway - it's off topic.

This is about the closure of more and more coal fired power stations
without enough renewables to compensate.
Already power prices have doubled and tripled -
the Greens are destroying Australia.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #415 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 3:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 4:29pm:

Whenever they print money it causes inflation.

see my edit:

"Note: Oz has all the workers and materials it needs to build the public housing units it needs, therefore there will be no 'demand' inflation caused by the public spending."

Every dollar they print causes inflation.

That's known as QTM (quantity theory of money)

It's false; see:

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/480#480

#478

Quote:

Anyway - it's off topic.

It's particularly relevent to the Greens, who have all the desirable policies, but don't know how to pay for them - given the public's reluctance to pay increased taxes.

Quote:

This is about the closure of more and more coal fired power stations without enough renewables to compensate.
Already power prices have doubled and tripled -
the Greens are destroying Australia

Unfortunately the Greens aren't yet prepared to teach the public** there are no purely financial constraints on the OZ treasury funding the necessary rollout of renewables infrastructure - including the transmission upgrade, ASAP.

ie fast enough to keep pace with and eventually overtake the closure of fossil plants.

After which power prices plummet.....

**because they are concerned they won't win votes from the public who know nothing about money, like you.
But it's a losing strategy in the long run, because Green policies can't be implemented under present neoclassical "dismal science" - balanced government budget dogma.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #416 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 4:50pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 3:35pm:

ie fast enough to keep pace with and eventually overtake the closure of fossil plants.

After which power prices plummet.....

Oh only then. that explains prices ramping up in line with renewables. And then of course replacement. But don't worry "MMT will fix it". Grin

And of course China is the main supplier of renewables. European suppliers of wind turbines are going broke. But they use FF power by and large. Strangely the percentages for Australia are all over the place. 18.9% to 39%. I guess the 39% is installed capacity (nameplate) rather than that actually generated and used.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #417 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:03pm

lee wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 4:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 3:35pm:

ie fast enough to keep pace with and eventually overtake the closure of fossil plants.

After which power prices plummet.....

But don't worry "MMT will fix it".

Well... if AGW is real and things really get nasty, it's nice to know we can sack the current crop of gruesome neoclassical dead-heads, and get on with the transition to renewables ASAP.

Otherwise we are stuck with the present political circus advocating policies ranging from doing nothing, to begging Woodside and Chevron to be nice...

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #418 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:03pm:

Well... if AGW is real and things really get nasty, it's nice to know we can sack the current crop of gruesome neoclassical dead-heads, and get on with the transition to renewables ASAP.

So says the numpty who has NO engineering whatsoever. Engineering can't do the impossible, merely the difficult. The Laws of Physics says so. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:03pm:

Otherwise we are stuck with the present political circus advocating policies ranging from doing nothing, to begging Woodside and Chevron to be nice...

You forgot all the green "ideas". Woodside and Chevron already set aside 15% for WA. Perhaps it is time for the east coast to do something instead of whinging about GST. They have banned fracking and mining when they have the wherewithal to overcome their problems. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #419 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:30pm

lee wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:03pm:

Well... if AGW is real and things really get nasty, it's nice to know we can sack the current crop of gruesome neoclassical dead-heads, and get on with the transition to renewables ASAP.

So says the numpty who has NO engineering whatsoever. Engineering can't do the impossible, merely the difficult. The Laws of Physics says so. Roll Eyes

Hey ....Olympic Dam alone has enough uranium to power the globe in a decade. China and India are on board.

Quote:

You forgot all the green "ideas". Woodside and Chevron.....

But W and C don't want to contribute toward the necessary taxes - given the current gruesome neoclassical orthodoxy - required to 'pay for' the transition.

Quote:

already set aside 15% for WA. Perhaps it is time for the east coast to do something instead of whinging about GST. They have banned fracking and mining when they have the wherewithal to overcome their problems. Roll Eyes

[/quote]

So the Oz public will have to pay to extract its own resources, while the fossil companies make huge profits on the back of global prices.

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