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The fallacy of the Greens (Read 61627 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #225 - Jul 12th, 2022 at 8:43pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 12:23pm:
That's  because you don't understand inflation is an excess demand (or lack of supply) problem.


But money is not a supply problem You have said so yourself governments can simply create money. Roll Eyes


A particularly slow learner. It seems I must add the implied  words which I assumed you would know by now.

So to repeat:

"That's  because you don't understand inflation is a problem of  excess demand ON  available productive or produced resources ; or lack of supply OF desired resources.

Can you forget money for a moment, to let the above statement sink in?
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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #226 - Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:38pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 8:43pm:
Can you forget money for a moment, to let the above statement sink in?


So you want me to forget your argument about money? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #227 - Jul 13th, 2022 at 3:13pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 8:43pm:
Can you forget money for a moment, to let the above statement sink in?


So you want me to forget your argument about money? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


No, I said "for a moment", because you have shown  I must lead you one tiny step at a time, for you to understand money is a convenience, not a resource.

"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. When something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent.”....

https://neweconomics.org/2012/12/where-does-money-come-from

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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #228 - Jul 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 3:13pm:
No, I said "for a moment", because you have shown  I must lead you one tiny step at a time, for you to understand money is a convenience, not a resource.



Yes money is not a resource then neither is inflation.   Inflation? Print more money. Roll Eyes
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John_Taverner
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #229 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 8:42am
 
I wouldn't trust the Greens to run a chook raffle.

We need the Teal independants to form a reliable right-leaning environmentally reponsible party, like there is in Canada.
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FutureTheLeftWant
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #230 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 8:45am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 8:42am:
I wouldn't trust the Greens to run a chook raffle.

We need the Teal independants to form a reliable right-leaning environmentally reponsible party, like there is in Canada.


You're hoping the teals will trust science but still hate poor and trans people?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #231 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 2:46pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 4:32pm:
Yes money is not a resource then neither is inflation.
 

You are now on the right track.   

Quote:
Inflation? Print more money. Roll Eyes


Oops.. veered off badly....

I'll try another tack.

Philip Lowe insisted (and lied) that he had to borrow the $20 billion/month he needed at the start of the pandemic, to ensure locked-down workers could afford to buy food and pay their housing/utility bills. 

Why on earth did he need to borrow money "which must be repaid" (which is the reason why Chalmers is now claiming he can't afford to hand out free RATS tests anymore), when Lowe has the ability to change the digits in the bank accounts of laid off workers, without any risk of inflation, because the locked-down workers purchasing power would not increase?

Note: Lowe made 2 mistakes: he borrowed money which "must be repaid"; and instead of simply paying essential bills of laid-off workers, he threw the borrowed money "which must be repaid" around like confetti, including to millionaires.

And now he shouting "inflation", even though the confetti money he threw around which has resulted in increased purchasing-power/demand in the economy, will run out quickly enough, and the real problem behind current fuel, food and housing price rises is supply blockages, which will also subside soon enough (though the Oz  housing Ponzi has other problems than mere supply).   

His solution: raise interest rates and crash the economy, that'll cure "inflation".   

He should be sacked immediately.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #232 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 3:11pm
 
FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 8:45am:
You're hoping the teals will trust science but still hate poor and trans people?


RW'ers don't care about poor people; they either see taxes as "theft", or regard government intervention  to deal with poverty as a threat to incentive, or pandering to "sloth". 

But my difficulty with the Greens, and the Australia Institute - is they think that raising sufficient taxation to fund poverty alleviation is politically feasible.   

The coming bun-fight over the Coalition's stage 3 tax cuts which Albo is determined to stick with (because they won him the election?) will be hideous to watch.

And then Albo and the Greens both expect the private sector will agree to fund the $20 billion grid upgrade, and increase deployment of solar/wind  rapidly enough to avoid opening up new coal and gas (which even Bowen thinks is necessary - that'll be another bun-fight between the Green and Labor), despite the fact there is more profit to be had in fossil exploitation.

And I suppose the  Teals are in lockstep with market economics as well.   

Losers.
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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #233 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:02pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 3:11pm:
RW'ers don't care about poor people; they either see taxes as "theft", or regard government intervention  to deal with poverty as a threat to incentive, or pandering to "sloth". 

.
You mean unlike the LW'ers who don't want the poor countries to have cheap reliable fossil fuel? Roll Eyes
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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #234 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:04pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 2:46pm:
lee wrote Yesterday at 2:32pm:
Yes money is not a resource then neither is inflation.


You are now on the right track.   


Money is a convenience then inflation is merely an inconvenience. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #235 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:08pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 3:11pm:
RW'ers don't care about poor people; they either see taxes as "theft", or regard government intervention  to deal with poverty as a threat to incentive, or pandering to "sloth". 

.
You mean unlike the LW'ers who don't want the poor countries to have cheap reliable fossil fuel? Roll Eyes 


LW'ers want cheap reliable renewable energy for everyone , paid for by the rich world as necessary.

(Meantime Philip Lowe's "money printer"  which he refuses to use other than by sheeting  the bill to the public, is sitting there, see  #231....which you have obviously already looked at but are unable to refute or critique at all....
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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #236 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:08pm:
LW'ers want cheap reliable renewable energy for everyone , paid for by the rich world as necessary.


EXCEPT fossil fuels. The IMF, World Bank etc refuse to have anything to do with fossil fuel, despite the citizens wanting it. LW'ers are of course only doing it for their own good because they only have limited knowledge. Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #237 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:08pm:
LW'ers want cheap reliable renewable energy for everyone , paid for by the rich world as necessary.


EXCEPT fossil fuels. The IMF, World Bank etc refuse to have anything to do with fossil fuel, despite the citizens wanting it.


Contradicting yourself? If the IMF (Instant Misery Fund) and WB are falling over themselves to fund renewable energy, why aren't they doing it?

Quote:
LW'ers are of course only doing it for their own good because they only have limited knowledge. Roll Eyes


Regardless, the IMF and WB apparently have some knowledge re AGW climate change, because they "refuse to have anything to do with fossils"  ...according to you.... oops.

And as for IMF and WB funding, #231 is still sitting there; can't get your brain into gear? 


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« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:58pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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lee
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #238 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 7:23pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm:
Contradicting yourself?


No

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm:
If the IMF (Instant Misery Fund) and WB are falling over themselves to fund renewable energy, why aren't they doing it?



"The World Bank's Board of Executive Directors approved today US$6.9 million in additional financing for the Haiti: Renewable Energy for All Project. This financing aims to scale up renewable energy investments to expand and improve access to electricity for health infrastructure, households, businesses, and community services."

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/09/30/world-bank-supports-s...

"The IMF is offering support by working with the Network of Central Banks and Supervisors for Greening the Financial System and other standard-setting bodies to promote green finance more broadly and developing climate-related stress tests."

https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/green-finance

You really have n o clue. Grin Grin Grin Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm:
Regardless, the IMF and WB apparently have some knowledge re AGW climate change, because they "refuse to have anything to do with fossils"  ...according to you.... oops.


Yes. They are fully on board the CAGW gravy train. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm:
And as for IMF and WB funding, #231 is still sitting there; can't get your brain into gear? 


Nothing there about the IMF or World Bank. Roll Eyes

Jim Chalmers has never held a job out of politics. What makes you think he understands anything economic? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2022 at 7:29pm by lee »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #239 - Jul 14th, 2022 at 9:31pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 7:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 14th, 2022 at 4:53pm:
Contradicting yourself?


No.
"The World Bank's Board of Executive Directors approved today US$6.9 million in additional financing for the Haiti: Renewable Energy for All Project. This financing aims to scale up renewable energy investments to expand and improve access to electricity for health infrastructure, households, businesses, and community services."

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/09/30/world-bank-supports-s...


ROTFL.  Haiti, a failed state (pop. half Oz)  with communal rioting like an increasing number of failed states, gets $7 million from the Instant Misery Fund, when it needs at least $10 billion   to transition to renewables, forget another $20 billion to  bring housing and (non-energy) infrastructure  up to standard.

"Additional financing" indeed, via loans which have to be repaid to the Instant Misery Fund.

Quote:
"The IMF is offering support by working with the Network of Central Banks and Supervisors for Greening the Financial System and other standard-setting bodies to promote green finance more broadly and developing climate-related stress tests."


Meaningless waffle, typical of the Instant Misery Fund.

Quote:


Certainly the Instant Misery Fund  doesn't a clue  other than how to enrich itself, as any nation unfortunate to fall into its grubby hands knows: higher taxes, privatize everything that moves, slash pensions and benefits, to "restore government finances"...

Quote:
Yes. They are fully on board the CAGW gravy train. Roll Eyes


That's right, because  the profit-gouging fossil industry doesn't need them; so they can pretend to be useful by lending pennies to fund some solar panels in poor nations. 

Quote:
Nothing there about the IMF or World Bank. Roll Eyes


Because they are evil interest-seeking loan sharks, unlike you (hopefully) who doesn't know any better (but the defense of ignorance will only last so long).

Stop finding excuses not to address the substantive point, ie the "(govt.) borrowed money which must be repaid" central bank myth.   

Quote:
Jim Chalmers has never held a job out of politics. What makes you think he understands anything economic? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


He doesn't, but that doesn't mean you do.....#231 is still waiting for you to at least try to exonerate yourself somewhat...
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« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2022 at 9:39pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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