Australian Politics Forum - The fallacy of the Greens

thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #195 - Jul 8^th, 2022 at 1:53pm

Frank wrote on Jul 7^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

You DO realise that AGW is statistics.

Like these?

"Research found the sea-level rise is about 3.6mm per year.

The figure matches quite well with satellite observations from the Jason and ENVY satellites, which are used to measure precisely the rate of sea-level rise.

The estimates are similar to those of Assessment Report 6 by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The report calculates the rise averaged about 3.7mm per year between 2016-2018.

The sea level is now consistently rising faster than the 1.7mm per year in 1900 and 3.2mm per year in 2000.

In 2018, sea level was 13-20cm higher on average than it was in 1900.

IPCC also produces many climate scenarios including possible future sea-level rise. It states that the worst possible sea-level rise will likely approach 2 metres by 2100.

https://theconversation.com/indonesias-capital-jakarta-is-sinking-heres-how-to-s...

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #196 - Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:01pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2022 at 4:36pm:

So the banks will do it for free. Roll Eyes

No, currency-issuing governments will do it for free, the only true cost being an opportunity resource cost ; the private banks can go cry over all their lost juicy fossil profits, when they are denied the ability to charge interest on the money they create out of nothing...

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #197 - Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2022 at 1:53pm:

The figure matches quite well with satellite observations from the Jason and ENVY satellites, which are used to measure precisely the rate of sea-level rise.

And what is the intsrument accuracy of the satellites?

Answer - 33mm. and from that they derive a signal much smaller. Grin

Edit: And that's just instrument accuracy. BTW- It is ENVI.

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« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:11pm by lee »

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #198 - Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:01pm:

No, currency-issuing governments will do it for free, the only true cost being an opportunity resource cost ; the private banks can go cry over all their lost juicy fossil profits, when they are denied the ability to charge interest on the money they create out of nothing...

So central banks will not make a profit? How then do they earn money? Ah that's right the bottomless pit. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #199 - Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:31am

lee wrote on Jul 8^th, 2022 at 2:06pm:

So central banks will not make a profit?

Central banks don't have to make a profit; they can create money out of thin air.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/180

Post #181

"Because they create money out of thin air.

How will it work in practice?

The RBA will be buying bonds from the "secondary market".

What does that mean?

Well, the Australian Office of Financial Management (AOFM) sells bonds on behalf of the Federal Government (via Treasury).

The bonds are sold to institutional investors (large foreign and local banks) with the promise of making regular interest payments to whoever buys them, along with a repayment of the principal at a set future date.

Those institutional investors then create their own markets for those bonds (called "secondary markets"), by on-selling them to other investors such as pension funds and super funds, hedge funds, insurance companies, private banks and central banks***, which want to hold interest-bearing assets in their portfolios.

When the RBA buys Australian Government bonds, it buys them from that secondary market.
Is this a form of money printing?

According to Sean Callow, a senior currency strategist at Westpac, you can think of it like money printing.

***so the government is buying back - in so-called "secondary markets" - the bonds it issued to institutional investors in the "primary market".

It's smoke and mirrors, so the government can hide the fact it CAN create money out of nothing....further exposed in #188-9.

Quote:

Ah that's right the bottomless pit.

So now you know: your "bottomless pit" does indeed exist....but it's for money which is always created out of nothing, NOT real finite resources which are provided by nature ...

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2022 at 10:47am by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #200 - Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:31am:

Central banks don't have to make a profit; they can create money out of thin air.

So no inflation either because - they make money out of thin air. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:31am:

When the RBA buys Australian Government bonds, it buys them from that secondary market.
Is this a form of money printing?

No it is a form of loan repayment. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #201 - Jul 9^th, 2022 at 1:43pm

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 12:31am:

Central banks don't have to make a profit; they can create money out of thin air.

So no inflation either because - they make money out of thin air. Grin

Stop worrying about inflation, it's a scam - as if shortage of resources can be managed by lifting interest rates....Lowe should jailed for lifting interest rates. Inflation is ALWAYS a resources-constraint problem.

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No it is a form of loan repayment. Roll Eyes

Another scam, insisting currency-issuing governments have to tax or borrow from private sector interest-demanding, money-lending scammers.

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 20299 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #202 - Jul 9^th, 2022 at 8:29pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 1:43pm: Stop worrying about inflation, it's a scam - as if shortage of resources can be managed by lifting interest rates... S o seeing as there is no such thing as inflation the Reserve can pay anyone anything.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #203 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:03pm

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 8:29pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1653176030/201#201 date=1657338227]

S o seeing as there is no such thing as inflation the Reserve can pay anyone anything. Grin

That's not what I said.

To repeat, inflation is a (finite) resource availability problem, not a (infinite) finance availability problem.

But central bankers want to keep you in the dark, as you should be aware by now if you read #199 above.

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 20299 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #204 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:42pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:03pm: To repeat, inflation is a (finite) resource availability problem, not a (infinite) finance availability problem. But if the Reserve simply makes money out of thin air then there is no finite resource problem.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #205 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:27pm

lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

But if the Reserve simply makes money out of thin air then there is no finite resource problem. Roll Eyes

1. The reserve bank refuses to admit it CAN make (and spend) money out of thin air, and persists with the "scarcity of money" charade, as noted in #199.

2. Resources CANNOT be created out of thin air, regardless of what the central bank does or says.

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 20299 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #206 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 4:08pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:27pm: 2. Resources CANNOT be created out of thin air, regardless of what the central bank does or says. So money is not a resource as the reserve can make it out of thin air.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #207 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 5:41pm

lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 4:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

2. Resources CANNOT be created out of thin air, regardless of what the central bank does or says.

So money is not a resource as the reserve can make it out of thin air. Roll Eyes

Exactly! (It's a convenience...which can be created out of thin air...)

I'm enjoying teaching you about money, in this "fallacy of the Greens" thread.

Interestingly, a Greens senator attended an MMT- literate 'rethinking capitalism' workshop last weekend.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #208 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 7:31pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

Exactly! (It's a convenience...which can be created out of thin air...)

So the inflationary effect of money is non-existent. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

Interestingly, a Greens senator attended an MMT- literate 'rethinking capitalism' workshop last weekend.

Wow. How did an illiterate Green go? Grin

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #209 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 7:54pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

Interestingly, a Greens senator attended an MMT- literate 'rethinking capitalism' workshop last weekend.

It shows how clueless the greens are. Their voters have the slogan I bludge and i vote which explains why they think money grows on trees or comes for air.

Did the Greens look at Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka to see how MMT works?

Quote:

Sri Lanka is 'bankrupt,' Prime Minister says

July 6, 2022

Colombo, Sri Lanka (CNN)Sri Lanka is "bankrupt," Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe said Tuesday, as the country suffers its worst financial crisis in decades, leaving millions struggling to buy food, medicine and fuel.

Wickremesinghe told lawmakers that negotiations with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to revive the country's "collapsed" economy are "difficult," because the South Asian nation of 22 million has entered the talks as a bankrupt country, rather than a developing one.
"We are now participating in the negotiations as a bankrupt country. Therefore, we have to face a more difficult and complicated situation than previous negotiations," Wickremesinghe said in parliament.

Sri Lanka is in the midst of its worst financial crisis in seven decades, after its foreign exchange reserves plummeted to record lows, with dollars running out to pay for essential imports including food, medicine and fuel.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/05/asia/sri-lanka-bankrupt-fuel-crisis-intl-hnk/...

18 months ago economists were warning this voodoo economics called MMT could lead to disaster, it made your hero Mr Mosler pretty rich selling books to gullible idiots who bludge and vote who we call green supporters.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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