Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:


Indeed, but see my replies to Nail.

Btw, Weimar and  Zimbabwe are examples of nations subject to production losses - respectively, confiscation of Ruhr valley machinery by France after WW1, and loss of food production when unskilled black farmers took over farms confiscated from skilled white farmers. And Venezuela, loss of access to the sole source of foreign  currency when the oil market collapsed, a couple of years into Chavez's rule. 

IOW, inflation is always a supply constraint problem; ie, provided the currency-issuing government only purchases what is available for sale in its own currency (to which it has unlimited  access), then there will be no excess  money chasing too few goods.

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 3:01pm:


You still haven't read Mosler.

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No it's not; the value of 100 Swiss Francs compared to Zimbabwe's currency - in foreign exchange - is determined by the productivity of the Swiss nation compared to that of Zimbabwe.

Whereas the value of the Swiss Franc to the Swiss people is what it can purchase within Switzerland.

Give yourself a break, and read Stephanie Kelton's 'The Deficit Myth'.

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 6:34pm:


Correct; both the creation - which is always out of nothing - and spending of money, which is constrained by availability of resources (including goods, services, labor etc)  are important.


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...of a nation's currency

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....yes, like the 'points' which keep score in a sports competition. Where do these 'points' come from, as they are added to the score board in the course of the game? Can the game run out of them? 

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Though money is indeed created 'ex nihilo', after the act of its creation, it is indeed something.

Now consider the birth of a new nation. Its treasury and reserve bank, plus the private banks,  will have to issue its currency 'ex nihilo' in ever increasing amounts, as the nation grows. 

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Can you identify my error, in the above outline of how money is created?

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2022 at 3:25pm:


TransGender Deviots.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2022 at 2:13pm:



You ARE amazingly stupid.
You have to actually kick a goal - produce something - to have a score recorded. A game runs out of scores the moment you do not kick a goal. Only in a mental asylum would they add scores to the board without actual gospals being produced.


Your new nation analogy is also very stupid as no new nation - or anything - is created ex nihilio.

Your MMT  idiocy is simply an economic perpetuum mobile: movement without energy input, magic money from nothing.

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 9:14am:


...so let's see what you didn't  understand about the 'points' analogy.

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Correct. But the 'point'  - earned by kicking a goal -  or the dollar  - earned by making something -  are both created 'ex nihilo' (in the case of the dollar, or yen, or whatever, in the treasury and central bank - and private banks - of the nation's currency-issuing government). 

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Wrong. Your error here is to identify/conflate  the score with the points used to measure the score. The points available for scoring are infinite.

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Correct.

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Also correct (apart from being "stupid"); but you are continuing with your original mistake;  ie the new nation consisting of people and resources is created by decree or conquest, whereas the new nation's currency is created 'ex nihilo'. 

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Refuted above.

In short:

Wealth = resources + labour + know how.

Money is only a convenience** - created 'ex nihilo' - in this wealth creation equation.

**and a method of establishing sovereignty over a nation, requiring  payment of fees and fines in the government's currency.   

Frank wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 10:10am:


An obvious absurdity.

Repeat after me: the score of team A is MEASURED/TALLIED  by 'points', which are drawn from the ether (created 'ex nihilo'). Same for team B. The goals are real, the points used to tally the goals (ie the score) are created 'ex nihilo'.

Obviously a higher scoring game requires more points to be added to the score board, to measure/tally the higher number of goals. 
There is no limit to the points available for scoring, the limit to the number of points (numbers) actually used in the game depends on the number of goals achieved by each team.

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Correct! In fact you can't add ANY points to the board if no goals are kicked!.

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Incorrect. 

The score, measured in points to record the goals (output/product)  in a sports competition, is analogous to the economic output (eg GDP) measured in money to record the 'value' of that output/product.

In short, 'points' measure goals, 'money' measures economic output; both the points and the money are created 'ex nihlio'. 

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You can indeed measure the number of goals you scored by yourself, from a given  number of kicks,  tallied/compared over several nights.....

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Just remember the readers of these posts are judging the quality of your argument.