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Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) (Read 111856 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #150 - May 4th, 2022 at 12:06pm
 
Frank wrote on May 3rd, 2022 at 10:49pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 11:10pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 10:54pm:
You are an idiot.   An incoherent, and ignorant,  yet strident and vigorous idiot. But being strident and vigorous is not enough.
There are millions of you. Especially in China.


Well, that's not debate, I thank you for having persevered as long as you did.

At least you now know the difference between intrinsic value and exchange value.

Quote:
If you had a mind you'd be able to mount an argument - or at least comprehend one - against your own stance. But being a mindless, stupid propaganda bot, that is completely beyond your mindset and intellectual ability.


In a debate one relies on the opponent to mount an argument and defend it.

Quote:
You are good at repeating propaganda crap, but complete crap at thinking, reasoning or even rudimentary understanding ( they don't let you read widely or critically).


Doesn't change the fact  money is created out of thin air, and exchange (money) value of resources is independent of intrinsic value of resources. 

Quote:
You are a fundamentalist, like a Muslim or a Jehovah's Witness.


Where is my error in the highlighted sentence, above?


You are an idiot.

'Language is created out of thin air'.
'Sign language is created out of thin air'.
'Numbers are created out of thin air. Show me 'one''
'Harmony and melody are created out of thin air".


Congratulations, you are correct, all those things are created out of thin air, though you omitted a significant one: 'money is created out of thin air' .....


Quote:
"Magnificent buildings, sculptures, paintings, machines, cities etc are created out of thin air".


Bummer----you failed at the very last hurdle. You are hereby ordered back into the corner with your dunce's cap, to repeat 100 times: 

All those things are created out of REAL RESOURCES.

Note: a symphony requires real instruments to be heard,  but is itself not a real resource (rather,  is transient sound) , in contrast to a building which requires real resources to be built, and remains a real  resource as long as it exists.   

Quote:
You are fkkn maniac and a complete idiot.  Please dont respond, just fkk off into thin air.  Thank you.


I never give up on educating those who are in most need. 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #151 - May 4th, 2022 at 12:30pm
 
Another result of the broken global dysfunctional economic system controlled by private global capital:

https://youtu.be/C2CW38wi5OM

"The Federal government should not intervene".

Liberalism gone mad....in this most egregious example of the "1st world rust belt".
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« Last Edit: May 4th, 2022 at 1:07pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #152 - May 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm
 
Democracy is threatened by political polarization…fueled by growing inequality, (and increasing homelessness)  and globalization without corrective oversight.

Journalists deluded by mainstream economists keep asking dumb questions of both sides of politics like; “how are you going to balance the budget?”, resulting in a jaded public – who know even less about macroeconomics – concluding ‘a pox on both your houses’.

Richard Denniss (of TAI) says tax the rich; Bill Mitchell (MMT) says the public sector should be authorized to spend money into existence, both are on the Left though Richard is orthodox, Bill heterodox.

On the Right (both Coalition and Labor, tweedle dee-tweedle dum), we have the ‘small government’ ideologues, chanting ‘ lower taxes and getting out of the way of markets will produce the best results’.

This last ideology is obviously absurd because it has been the dominant ideology since the 70’s (aka neoliberalism), and has given us the egregious inequality we see today, including more people locked out of the private housing market, while the public sector has withdrawn from public housing. Menzies was able to house everyone and grow the economy, by running continuous budget deficits in the years 1958-67.

Meanwhile dummies like Andrew Probyn (and the rest at the ABC) keep ‘probing’ polies on both sides of politics with his ‘penetrating’ question: "how will you balance the budget?"….as if a government’s budget has any similarities to a household budget.

The ABC, far from being 'Left-Wing' as claimed by the rabid Right, has been captured by the groupthink of mainstream economics.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #153 - May 7th, 2022 at 11:17pm
 
More on the impending collapse of the global 'money as debt' system:

https://ellenbrown.com/2022/05/05/a-monetary-reset-where-the-rich-dont-own-every...

"Governments have delegated the power to create money to private banks, which create most of the circulating money supply as debt at interest. They create the principal but not the interest, so more money must be repaid than was created in the original loan. Debt thus grows faster than the money supply, as seen in the chart from WorkableEconomics.com below. Debt grows until it cannot be repaid, when the board is cleared by some form of market crash such as the 2008 financial crisis, typically widening the wealth gap on the way down".

(..........)

"Transition to the new world economic order will likely be accompanied by systematic refusal to honor obligations in dollars, euro, pound, and yen. In this respect, it will be no different from the example set by the countries issuing these currencies who thought it appropriate to steal foreign exchange reserves of Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Afghanistan, and Russia to the tune of trillions of dollars. Since the US, Britain, EU, and Japan refused to honor their obligations and confiscated wealth of other nations which was held in their currencies, why should other countries be obliged to pay them back and to service their loans?"
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #154 - May 9th, 2022 at 11:59pm
 
US commentator Steve Grumbine interviews Oz economist Steve Keen, re the latter's bid for the Oz Senate (as a candidate for TNL, formerly 'The New Liberals).

https://youtu.be/dbh0ruADu9s

Along the way, fascinating insights into US right-wing ("anti-woke") fascism, from Grumbine, and discussion of racism in both countries. 

....and the effects of the reptilian brain(!)  eg govts. willing to spend on war, but not public housing....
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aquascoot
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #155 - May 10th, 2022 at 5:24am
 
lol

public housing for the homeless. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

the classic example of why leftie ideas fail.

california has one of the highest rates of homelessness in the states.

it has doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

and the number of public servants on 6 figure incomes working on honelssness has also doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

why would someone on 180,000 a year solve a problem which will then render him unemployed.

public servants in leftie governments have a vested interest in "farming" the unemployed.

i am overjoyed by a good crop of new calves because it makes me properous.

leftie public servants are overjoyed by more homeless, refugees, welfare dependant, mentally ill because it makes them more prosperous.

i produce useful things that enrich the economy.

they farm things which demolish the economy.

here endeth the lesson
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Frank
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #156 - May 10th, 2022 at 10:29am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 5:24am:
lol

public housing for the homeless. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

the classic example of why leftie ideas fail.

california has one of the highest rates of homelessness in the states.

it has doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

and the number of public servants on 6 figure incomes working on honelssness has also doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

why would someone on 180,000 a year solve a problem which will then render him unemployed.

public servants in leftie governments have a vested interest in "farming" the unemployed.

i am overjoyed by a good crop of new calves because it makes me properous.

leftie public servants are overjoyed by more homeless, refugees, welfare dependant, mentally ill because it makes them more prosperous.

i produce useful things that enrich the economy.

they farm things which demolish the economy.

here endeth the lesson

A good parable.

The MMT idea is for the government to print more free calves....  Grin
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #157 - May 10th, 2022 at 12:34pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 5:24am:
lol

public housing for the homeless. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

the classic example of why leftie ideas fail.

california has one of the highest rates of homelessness in the states.

it has doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

and the number of public servants on 6 figure incomes working on honelssness has also doubled every 3 years for the last 12 years.

why would someone on 180,000 a year solve a problem which will then render him unemployed.

public servants in leftie governments have a vested interest in "farming" the unemployed.

i am overjoyed by a good crop of new calves because it makes me properous.

leftie public servants are overjoyed by more homeless, refugees, welfare dependant, mentally ill because it makes them more prosperous.

i produce useful things that enrich the economy.

they farm things which demolish the economy.

here endeth the lesson


Ah, the old Conservative  argument that progressives need poverty to exist, to justify the existence of the progressive parties.

Well, indeed progressive parties are partly to blame,  owing to their falling for the neoliberalism  which has hijacked mainstream macroeconomics since the 80's, with its evil NAIRU dogma. 

Hence the "progressive" solution which you denigrate, ie, welfare - which is always a disaster for the economic and psychological well-being of the recipients.

The real progressive solution: above-poverty employment for all,  with subsidized housing for low wage workers.

Meanwhile Steve Keen - mentioned in post #154 - has a plan  for achieving a 'soft landing' in the dangerously overpriced OZ housing market.

And his party - TNL - has a Job Guarantee policy. 

MMT increases the government's policy choices, because  the electorate, not un-elected pointy heads in the so-called "independent reserve bank" , can choose between fiscal policies consistent with the nation's available resources (to avoid inflation), instead of ineffective monetary operations; lifting interest rates cannot solve supply chain blockages caused by covid. 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #158 - May 10th, 2022 at 12:49pm
 
Frank wrote on May 10th, 2022 at 10:29am:
A good parable.


aquascoot rubbishes welfare, but offers no alternative, hence not "a good parable". 

Like all conservative frauds, he wants to simultaneously  cut taxation, government spending AND welfare...without realizing they are like the fool sitting on the wrong side of the branch while cutting it off...

Quote:
The MMT idea is for the government to print more free calves....  Grin


No the idea is (to repeat):

MMT increases the government's policy choices, because  the electorate, not un-elected pointy heads in the so-called "independent reserve bank" , can choose between fiscal policies consistent with the nation's available resources (to avoid inflation), instead of ineffective monetary operations; eg, lifting interest rates is an absurd means to control inflation caused by  covid supply chain blockages. 

You of course are still unable to distinguish between things which can be created out of thin air (like money), and things which can't (like calves, which have to be born by a cow). 
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2022 at 12:56pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #159 - May 12th, 2022 at 12:08pm
 
MMT going mainstream: former Statewide Super CEO teams up with Torrens Uni 'Modern Money Lab's new economics courses.

https://youtu.be/uWWDs7d4KDU
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #160 - May 12th, 2022 at 12:18pm
 
And Australian MMT economist Steve Keen running for the senate, for TNL. (The New Liberals).

http://www.profstevekeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/keen_for_senate-1.pdf

"Career politicians, who aren’t equipped to read
the academic literature, don’t know that
they’re being conned by economists.
At TNL, we know that the economists are
wrong. Unlike economists, climate scientists
are terrified by the prospect of a 2°C warmer
world."
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Frank
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #161 - May 12th, 2022 at 12:36pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:18pm:
And Australian MMT economist Steve Keen running for the senate, for TNL. (The New Liberals).

http://www.profstevekeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/keen_for_senate-1.pdf

"Career politicians, who aren’t equipped to read the academic literature, don’t know that they’re being conned by economists. At TNL, we know that the economists are wrong. Unlike economists, climate scientists are terrified by the prospect of a 2°C warmer world."


Cheesy


Economist Steve Keen loses housing bet


AN ECONOMIST known as the "Merchant of Gloom" will have to walk from Canberra to the top of Australia's highest mountain after losing a bet about the resiliency of Australian house prices.

Last November, University of Western Sydney associate professor of economics and finance Steve Keen made a high-profile bet with Macquarie Group interest rate strategist Rory Robertson.

The bet was that house prices would tank by 40 per cent.

The loser of the bet would have to make the more than 200km trek from Canberra to the top of Mount Kosciuszko wearing a T-shirt that says "I was hopelessly wrong on house prices! Ask me how."

House prices are now at an all-time new high, Mr Robertson said in a statement.

"For fun, if Australian house prices ever fall by 40 per cent from any peak in my lifetime, I will follow in Dr Keen's footsteps," Mr Robertson said.

"Similarly, if Dr Keen proves the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, I will take the walk."
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #162 - May 12th, 2022 at 1:10pm
 
Frank wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:18pm:
And Australian MMT economist Steve Keen running for the senate, for TNL. (The New Liberals).

http://www.profstevekeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/keen_for_senate-1.pdf

"Career politicians, who aren’t equipped to read the academic literature, don’t know that they’re being conned by economists. At TNL, we know that the economists are wrong. Unlike economists, climate scientists are terrified by the prospect of a 2°C warmer world."


Cheesy


Economist Steve Keen loses housing bet


AN ECONOMIST known as the "Merchant of Gloom" will have to walk from Canberra to the top of Australia's highest mountain after losing a bet about the resiliency of Australian house prices.

Last November, University of Western Sydney associate professor of economics and finance Steve Keen made a high-profile bet with Macquarie Group interest rate strategist Rory Robertson.

The bet was that house prices would tank by 40 per cent.

The loser of the bet would have to make the more than 200km trek from Canberra to the top of Mount Kosciuszko wearing a T-shirt that says "I was hopelessly wrong on house prices! Ask me how."

House prices are now at an all-time new high, Mr Robertson said in a statement.

"For fun, if Australian house prices ever fall by 40 per cent from any peak in my lifetime, I will follow in Dr Keen's footsteps," Mr Robertson said.

"Similarly, if Dr Keen proves the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, I will take the walk."


Well, in markets, timing is everything.  Keen didn't take into account the extent to which China would prop up the OZ economy, with China's demand for iron ore during and after the GFC caused by the subprime US real estate crash. 

And the fact remains, the OZ housing bubble is the most overblown in the world. If it pops, it's goodnight Australia.

Prof. Keen outlines a plan to maintain house buyers'   equity in their overpriced houses, while enabling house prices to fall to more sustainable levels, to avoid a crash when heavily indebted buyers can't cope with interest rate rises.   
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Frank
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #163 - May 13th, 2022 at 9:23pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 1:10pm:
Frank wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 12th, 2022 at 12:18pm:
And Australian MMT economist Steve Keen running for the senate, for TNL. (The New Liberals).

http://www.profstevekeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/keen_for_senate-1.pdf

"Career politicians, who aren’t equipped to read the academic literature, don’t know that they’re being conned by economists. At TNL, we know that the economists are wrong. Unlike economists, climate scientists are terrified by the prospect of a 2°C warmer world."


Cheesy


Economist Steve Keen loses housing bet


AN ECONOMIST known as the "Merchant of Gloom" will have to walk from Canberra to the top of Australia's highest mountain after losing a bet about the resiliency of Australian house prices.

Last November, University of Western Sydney associate professor of economics and finance Steve Keen made a high-profile bet with Macquarie Group interest rate strategist Rory Robertson.

The bet was that house prices would tank by 40 per cent.

The loser of the bet would have to make the more than 200km trek from Canberra to the top of Mount Kosciuszko wearing a T-shirt that says "I was hopelessly wrong on house prices! Ask me how."

House prices are now at an all-time new high, Mr Robertson said in a statement.

"For fun, if Australian house prices ever fall by 40 per cent from any peak in my lifetime, I will follow in Dr Keen's footsteps," Mr Robertson said.

"Similarly, if Dr Keen proves the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, I will take the walk."


Well, in markets, timing is everything.  Keen didn't take into account the extent to which China would prop up the OZ economy, with China's demand for iron ore during and after the GFC caused by the subprime US real estate crash. 

And the fact remains, the OZ housing bubble is the most overblown in the world. If it pops, it's goodnight Australia.

Prof. Keen outlines a plan to maintain house buyers'   equity in their overpriced houses, while enabling house prices to fall to more sustainable levels, to avoid a crash when heavily indebted buyers can't cope with interest rate rises.   



Loser, then.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #164 - May 13th, 2022 at 10:05pm
 
Frank wrote on May 13th, 2022 at 9:23pm:
Loser, then.


He lost a bet, yes. 

Doesn't change the fact the mainstream economists  are serving the interests of power ie  private-debt owners, who demand interest when they lend money into existence. 

It's time for the public sector to be authorized to spend money into  existence, to accommodate a desirable balance between public and private spending.

(The limit to spending for a currency-issuer - to avoid inflation - is resources, not money). 

Pity Sri Lanka, another nation about to fall into the clutches of the IMF - Instant Misery Fund.




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