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The beginning of the end for Putin (Read 459 times)
Paki gob on a stick
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The beginning of the end for Putin
Feb 26th, 2022 at 11:08pm
 
Quote:
This is the beginning of the end for Vladimir Putin


By Mark Galeotti
February 26, 2022 — 3.15pm

What is being fought in the cities of Ukraine is not just a war for that country’s freedom and future, it is a conflict that will determine Russia’s, too. Win, lose or draw, Putin has guaranteed that the Cold War - a war that arguably he never stopped fighting - is back. His regime will likely decay into isolation, economic stagnation and political repression as a result.

While intelligence services and the military analyst community were warning of an imminent, full-scale war in Ukraine, Western Putin-watchers and Russians alike had their doubts. It just seemed too dangerous, disproportionate and self-destructive.

On Sunday, just before the fateful meeting of Russia’s Security Council that showed the world how isolated Putin was, and how out of touch, a Moscow-based financial analyst messaged me that he was “feeling more comfortable now - Putin’s about to pull off the biggest bluff in history”.

It was not a bluff, though, and the ambition of Putin’s gamble is becoming clear. His stated objectives - Ukraine’s “demilitarisation and de-Nazification” - suggest his goal is to install a puppet government that will ensure the country remains within Russia’s sphere of influence.

The obscene suggestion that modern Ukraine needs “de-Nazification” is not only a desperate rhetorical flourish to convince the Russian people that this is in some ways a parallel to the “Great Patriotic War” - the Second World War - but also a prelude to the mass arrests and, Western intelligence agencies claim, even executions of those who would resist.

Putin’s plan seems to rest on a naďve assumption that it is simply a matter of taking Kyiv and announcing a new government. In fact, that is the relatively easy part - any quisling administration will then need to be maintained by force against a Ukrainian population that shows no sign of being willing to accept it.

Some will fight, something that is already clear as Ukraine’s government opens up its arsenals to distribute guns among volunteers. Even those not willing or able to fight, though, will resist in other ways, from sabotage to simple, mulish non-cooperation.

As a British Ministry of Defence analyst put it to me: “This isn’t going to be Occupied France - it’ll be more like the partisan war Ukrainians fought against the Germans in the Second World War.”

That would be a galling parallel for the Kremlin, which has made a virtual secular state religion of the war. An equally instructive one would be the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Again, an ageing leadership in the Kremlin airily assumed that all it needed to do was take the capital and impose a new leader, make a brief show of force and withdraw, with the Afghans now cowed and obedient.

Ten years and 15,000 Soviet deaths later, Moscow withdrew from a war it could not win. The generals had been well aware that the invasion would be a terrible and dangerous blunder, but the defence minister simply refused to convey his concerns to Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.

It is hard to believe that Putin is seriously thinking of this parallel, but we should, because, either way, his Russia is heading in the same direction as Brezhnev’s, driven by the same combination of hubris and paranoia.


Like Macbeth, this is his last act. There is no going back, leftards.

Hate him, like him, apologise for him, so unfair. Read on...

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/this-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-vladimi...
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Grappler Racist Filth
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #1 - Feb 26th, 2022 at 11:14pm
 
Been saying this will be the downfall of Putin.  If the West stood up and said ' Stop!' I'm sure there would be a quiet coup and he would be found to have suffered a mental breakdown and need hospitalisation....

He's never going to get off that island, Chuck..... better he die as a man than live on as a monster....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Paki gob on a stick
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #2 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 1:35am
 
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Feb 26th, 2022 at 11:14pm:
Been saying this will be the downfall of Putin.  If the West stood up and said ' Stop!' I'm sure there would be a quiet coup and he would be found to have suffered a mental breakdown and need hospitalisation....

He's never going to get off that island, Chuck..... better he die as a man than live on as a monster....


Problem is, he's the biggest cashed-up dictator in history. Marcos, Pinochet, Gaddafi, they were paupers by comparison.

Putin can get exile in Iran or China, if the next Russian dictator doesn't pardon him, as he did to Yeltsin.

Not sure what the UN can do in this space, the Security Council's stacked with Russia and China. There has to be an international human rights mechanism to bring him to justice.
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #3 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 6:55am
 

The beginning of the end for Putin?

One can only hope so and the sooner the better!

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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #4 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 7:45am
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Feb 27th, 2022 at 1:35am:
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Feb 26th, 2022 at 11:14pm:
Been saying this will be the downfall of Putin.  If the West stood up and said ' Stop!' I'm sure there would be a quiet coup and he would be found to have suffered a mental breakdown and need hospitalisation....

He's never going to get off that island, Chuck..... better he die as a man than live on as a monster....


Problem is, he's the biggest cashed-up dictator in history. Marcos, Pinochet, Gaddafi, they were paupers by comparison.

Putin can get exile in Iran or China, if the next Russian dictator doesn't pardon him, as he did to Yeltsin.

Not sure what the UN can do in this space, the Security Council's stacked with Russia and China. There has to be an international human rights mechanism to bring him to justice.

China offer Putin asylum?

The only people the CCP approves of entering China are trafficked prostitutes.
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Grappler Racist Filth
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 8:00am
 
Amazing how these mighty heroes for the people always end us richer than Croesus..... just deserved payment for their sacrifice for people and nation, eh?

No wonder our politicians look at China and Russia and slaver at the thought of having that level of social control over the nation and people.... watch this space... I am warning you... been watching it take place long enough now ..... even the much-vaunted US keeps its majority down via poverty levels of pay and such, not to mention direct disadvantage in healthcare and such...

Never heard of a politician retiring poor................. no wonder the WOPs and imports flock to politics.... and no wonder this country is going down under the tutelage of grasping peasants in Armani bent on getting as much for themselves as possible at the expense of the majority ... including those imported from the US etc with their entrenched views on their own superiority ...

Not a calling to service - just a fat career doing Pharkall - and no foreign import should be allowed to take high office here...they have no idea of the credo and history of this nation and its people..... think they can transplant their small country feudal society here and bend everything to their own advantage.....
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2022 at 8:06am by Grappler Racist Filth »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:18am
 

"LGBT+ rights” are the most important “values and hard won freedoms” distinguishing “us” from Russian President Vladimir Putin, Richard Moore, chief of MI6, the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service, wrote on Friday.


...


They will show Vlad, Xi and the Ayatollahs. Oh, yes.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:40am
 
Frank wrote on Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:18am:
"LGBT+ rights” are the most important “values and hard won freedoms” distinguishing “us” from Russian President Vladimir Putin, Richard Moore, chief of MI6, the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service, wrote on Friday.


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2022/02/GettyImages-79155556-640x480.png


They will show Vlad, Xi and the Ayatollahs. Oh, yes.



That pretty much sums up the mess.
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Paki gob on a stick
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 7:02pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:40am:
Frank wrote on Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:18am:
"LGBT+ rights” are the most important “values and hard won freedoms” distinguishing “us” from Russian President Vladimir Putin, Richard Moore, chief of MI6, the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service, wrote on Friday.


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2022/02/GettyImages-79155556-640x480.png


They will show Vlad, Xi and the Ayatollahs. Oh, yes.



That pretty much sums up the mess.


What, that we're not a dictatorship like Russia?

Come come, dear. The old boy's a spineless apologist for Putin.

You?
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 8:37pm
 
It'll definitely be his end if he attacks a NATO country.
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #10 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 8:37pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Feb 26th, 2022 at 11:08pm:
Quote:
This is the beginning of the end for Vladimir Putin


By Mark Galeotti
February 26, 2022 — 3.15pm

What is being fought in the cities of Ukraine is not just a war for that country’s freedom and future, it is a conflict that will determine Russia’s, too. Win, lose or draw, Putin has guaranteed that the Cold War - a war that arguably he never stopped fighting - is back. His regime will likely decay into isolation, economic stagnation and political repression as a result.

While intelligence services and the military analyst community were warning of an imminent, full-scale war in Ukraine, Western Putin-watchers and Russians alike had their doubts. It just seemed too dangerous, disproportionate and self-destructive.

On Sunday, just before the fateful meeting of Russia’s Security Council that showed the world how isolated Putin was, and how out of touch, a Moscow-based financial analyst messaged me that he was “feeling more comfortable now - Putin’s about to pull off the biggest bluff in history”.

It was not a bluff, though, and the ambition of Putin’s gamble is becoming clear. His stated objectives - Ukraine’s “demilitarisation and de-Nazification” - suggest his goal is to install a puppet government that will ensure the country remains within Russia’s sphere of influence.

The obscene suggestion that modern Ukraine needs “de-Nazification” is not only a desperate rhetorical flourish to convince the Russian people that this is in some ways a parallel to the “Great Patriotic War” - the Second World War - but also a prelude to the mass arrests and, Western intelligence agencies claim, even executions of those who would resist.

Putin’s plan seems to rest on a naďve assumption that it is simply a matter of taking Kyiv and announcing a new government. In fact, that is the relatively easy part - any quisling administration will then need to be maintained by force against a Ukrainian population that shows no sign of being willing to accept it.

Some will fight, something that is already clear as Ukraine’s government opens up its arsenals to distribute guns among volunteers. Even those not willing or able to fight, though, will resist in other ways, from sabotage to simple, mulish non-cooperation.

As a British Ministry of Defence analyst put it to me: “This isn’t going to be Occupied France - it’ll be more like the partisan war Ukrainians fought against the Germans in the Second World War.”

That would be a galling parallel for the Kremlin, which has made a virtual secular state religion of the war. An equally instructive one would be the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Again, an ageing leadership in the Kremlin airily assumed that all it needed to do was take the capital and impose a new leader, make a brief show of force and withdraw, with the Afghans now cowed and obedient.

Ten years and 15,000 Soviet deaths later, Moscow withdrew from a war it could not win. The generals had been well aware that the invasion would be a terrible and dangerous blunder, but the defence minister simply refused to convey his concerns to Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.

It is hard to believe that Putin is seriously thinking of this parallel, but we should, because, either way, his Russia is heading in the same direction as Brezhnev’s, driven by the same combination of hubris and paranoia.


Like Macbeth, this is his last act. There is no going back, leftards.

Hate him, like him, apologise for him, so unfair. Read on...

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/this-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-vladimi...


I told you he's done.

Dead within a year.
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #11 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:44pm
 
Neither the west nor the Russian can afford a protracted Afghanistan like war in Ukraine.   There is alot of distinction between the two.  Historically, Ukraine - not whole, but parts of Ukraine were ruled by different noble houses from Poland, Russian, Lithuania, Turkey, Germany, and even the Mongols.   After the Cossack uprising, it separated itself from the then Polish Empire.  And was then eventually annexed and intergraded into the Russian Empire - after much blood shed. 

Ukraine is unique in that, it provides vital access for the Russians to the oil fields, the black sea, and it served as an important buffer against European invasion historically.    Two of the most famous invasions are:
1) French invasion - Napoleon - which was defeated by Napoleon lack of preparation for his troops due to a LONG LONG supply line due to the remoteness of Russia. 
2) WW2 - Adolf Hitler - which was defeated by a combination of remoteness, supply line issues and cold Russian winter.
So in effect, it is built within the psychic of the Russians that their greatest protection learn from long history of conflict is the distance, and the winter. 

If Ukraine became a member of NATO, then effectively this means, the defensive apparatus of NATO - which includes nuclear powers like US, UK, and France, will be located just 500km from Moscow.   And with the advance of modern warfare, this severely hindered what Russians considered two of their greatest natural protection from invasion. 

Now, we can more than happy to argue that Ukraine is an independent country, who has the right to decide what it wants to do.  And we as democracies will need to do everything in our power to protect democracy.   

But it is these differences in opinion that caused wars throughout history of humanity.   The cause of this particular war started not days ago... not even at the moment of breaking up of soviet union, but rather it is just a chapter of latest bloodshed fill history of Eastern Europe. 

Could this be the end of Putin... it may well be.  History is filled full of Emperors and Kings.   But rest be assured, even if this is the end of Putin, there will be another rising to take his place in Russia, and the same war fought over the same reason will repeat itself again and again into the future. 

It is only when enough people have died on both sides, that sensible people on both sides would once again sit down and talk out a deal just like what they did in Korea.  And lets hope this time... its going to be sooner than later.   The ordinary people they do not deserve this. 
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2022 at 10:02pm by tickleandrose »  
 
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #12 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 9:59pm
 
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 10:00pm
 
What a shame we can't frame certain posts. The one by TickleandRose deserves to be framed AND read by everyone on OzPol.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: The beginning of the end for Putin
Reply #14 - Feb 27th, 2022 at 10:07pm
 
From my Facebook group:

"Putin signed his own death warrant when he gave the orders to invade Ukraine.  And today he brought that eventuality a whole lot nearer when he had the audacity to suggest that the Ukrainian military he is now at war with should actually overthrow their democratically elected president Zelensky.

Did it never once occur to him that this just might give some new ideas to those in his own military that might not share his genocidal fantasies regarding Ukraine, and who might not wish to end up alongside him in some future Nuremberg-style war crimes tribunal?  The only question now is who will step up to take on the role of Claus von Stauffenberg to try and salvage something of Russia’s dignity from the moral putrefaction that is Putinism?"


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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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