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Royal commision into ADF suicides (Read 4912 times)
Brian Ross
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Royal commision into ADF suicides
Nov 29th, 2021 at 4:15pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:34pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm
 
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:03pm
 
Northofnorth you are banned from this forum.   Obey it!
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 8:47am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.


I am aware of that.  I wonder if they are as widely proscribed to service people.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #7 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 9:39am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2021 at 8:47am:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.


I am aware of that.  I wonder if they are as widely proscribed to service people.


I believe they are. I know a couple of people who have been taking them.  Mixed results from my own laymans observations.  Undecided
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #8 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 10:30am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2021 at 8:47am:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.


I am aware of that.  I wonder if they are as widely proscribed to service people.

There are no special separate medications for service people who have PTS. They are prescribed the exact same medications as the rest of us. I would advise extreme caution to anyone who is prescribed anti depressants, I threw my scripts in the bin. As a point, although I myself do not use illegal substances,  with the advent of legalisation of Marijuana in the US there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that many ex service people are having a lot more success alleviating PTS with specific varieties of that particular previously illegal drug. The US has a lot of  war Vets and from what I have seen they do not look after them very well
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #9 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 8:10pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #10 - Dec 8th, 2021 at 7:45pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #11 - Dec 8th, 2021 at 10:18pm
 
Hari Kari
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #12 - Dec 9th, 2021 at 11:17am
 
Jasin wrote on Dec 8th, 2021 at 10:18pm:
Hari Kari


Seppuku in what way, JaSin? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2021 at 9:02pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #14 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 9:04am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:34pm:


An old mate went on one of those and he went off the deep end, his doc changed it, fortunately.

I prescribe a quiet life in a quiet environment and no stress. Takes a while.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #15 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 9:06am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2021 at 8:47am:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.


I am aware of that.  I wonder if they are as widely proscribed to service people.


Prescribed as opposed to proscribed, Brian.  Proscribed means 'written against' as opposed to 'written in advance'.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #16 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 9:11am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 9:04pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:45pm:
That doesnt surprise me Brian, its been known for some time that some commonly prescribed  anti depressants actually increase the rate of suicide amongst all groups. A close family member of mine attempted suicide after being prescribed anti depressants and a work colleague and good friend committed suicide last year also after being prescribed anti depressants.


Depends on how widely they were proscribed.
Anti depressant are one of the most widely prescribed group of drugs and are commonly prescribed for PTS.


Usually the 'diagnosis' is PTSD with associated depression (often) substance abuse - the attempt to treat the symptoms often creates other problems.  It is well known that female service people suffer a higher rate of PTSD from commitment to primarily non-combat duties. You could argue why that is from many directions.

A lot of work needs to be done here, and I'm not sure the current approach has any merit.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #17 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 9:18am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9th, 2021 at 9:02pm:


They say that nothing, no amount of training etc, can fully prepare anyone for the realities.  When Service personnel are selected from 'stable' and co-operative types in society, it is inevitable™ that sudden confrontation with grim reality will affect many.  At the same time, attempts to get around that and 'de-sensitise' people are met with stony silence and outright hostility.

It's a hard choice between treating people roughly to take the edge of civilisation off them and readying them for sudden bad scenes (man), and bullying and bastardisation... see 7RAR now.... such training needs careful management, and in this day and age of the SNAG is very difficult.  Kids brought up to 'not be boys' do not find it easy.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #18 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 7:25pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #19 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 8:22pm
 
Not another bloody Royal Commission Roll Eyes

#52 this year?
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #20 - Dec 10th, 2021 at 10:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10th, 2021 at 7:25pm:



Sort of rellie has issues, he's not a Veteran but was a former paratrooper... I can read the signs.... he has the same difficulty getting any help, including for a clear injury from a parachuting accident well documented.... it seems stonewalling remains in play.... keep saying no until they go away or die or get past the age (for a Vet) when they can get TPI even though they have the same disabilities.

Disgraceful....
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Josh frydenburger tried to bribe way out of RC
Reply #21 - Jan 18th, 2022 at 5:21pm
 
Quote:
Josh Frydenberg invited veterans and health professionals to submit cost-free proposals in what appears to be an agreement to cease the Veteran Suicide Royal Commission, writes Hayden O'Connor.

RECENTLY ACQUIRED EMAILS suggest that Treasurer Josh Frydenberg attempted to bribe veterans and health professionals on behalf of the Morrison Government, in a desperate “whatever it takes” attempt to avoid the establishment of a Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide.

The emails reveal that in the first of two private meetings, Frydenberg instructed the veterans and health professionals in attendance to put forward their wish list to Health Minister Greg Hunt for approval. In the meeting, Frydenberg made it perfectly clear to attendees that cost was not an issue. It was essentially a free-for-all. Ask and you shall receive.

Leading advocate for establishing the Royal Commission, Julie-Ann Finney, was made aware of these meetings when some of the veterans and health professionals called her after they met with Hunt. They tried to persuade Finney into dropping her fight for a Royal Commission, citing what had been promised to them by Frydenberg and Hunt as their reasons.

When Julie-Ann Finney revealed her knowledge of these two meetings in The Advertiser on 16 January 2020, she alleged Frydenberg instantly called her, angrily demanding that she retract her comments and reveal who told her about the meetings. Fortunately for Josh Frydenberg and the Liberal Party, the piece was published online as a subscriber-only story and did not gain any national traction or coverage.

Now that the Royal Commission has been officially called, Julie-Ann Finney feels that she is free to speak publicly on the dodgy deals and bullying that occurred during her fight for a royal commission.

Emails obtained from Finney, provided to her by an Afghanistan Veteran, detail the summary of a meeting that took place on 12 December 2019 in Frydenberg’s electorate office. The meeting was set up by former Governor-General Sir Peter Cosgrove and included veterans and health professionals as well as Josh Frydenberg and his advisers.

The email described a blank cheque situation:

Quote:
‘He [Frydenberg] has requested, after the Hunt meeting, that we then send to the Treasurer a list of the services we propose to fill gaps in current care. Further, he advised that we do not need to cost our requests in the summary. He indicated that support from Minister Hunt is essential. Once secured, Minister Hunt and Treasurer Frydenberg will present our proposals to Cabinet before the next Budget.’

Whilst the email summary doesn't explicitly state the existence of a bribe or quid pro quo agreement, the veterans and health professionals in attendance would surely have no other reason to request that Julie-Ann Finney end her fight for a royal commission.

Even though the story revealing the existence of these meetings didn’t go further than The Advertiser, Finney claims that Josh Frydenberg called her on the day the article was published and that he was not very happy, demanding that she retract the comments made in The Advertiser:

Josh Frydenberg called me on the day my comments were published in The Advertiser, I don’t recall the exact wording, but he said words to the effect of:   

Quote:
“I need the names of the people you are getting your information from” and “You need to retract your statements in The Advertiser article”. 


I told him: “No names, these people trust me, they don't trust you” and “no, I will not retract my statements, but I will let the journalist know that you asked me to”.

Finney claims that Frydenberg instantly ended the phone call after realising that she would not comply with his demands. This conversation concluded without him offering any condolences for the passing of her Navy Officer son, David Finney, who tragically took his own life.

Finney was disgusted with Frydenberg’s behaviour and his complete lack of compassion:

Quote:
‘No matter what I do, I’m still a mother who is only fighting because of her son; not for him, he’s dead, but because of him. He can save other lives and I did not deserve that [from Frydenberg].’

The claim that Frydenberg called Julie-Ann Finney in an attempt to bully her into retracting her comments adds credibility to the recent claim made by Julia Banks that he – whilst acting as a “bully boy” for Prime Minister Scott Morrison – live texted his conversation with Julia Banks to Sky News.

Julie-Ann Finney also stated that she lays no blame on the group of health professionals and veterans who attended the meetings with Frydenberg and then Hunt and that her issue resides with the Morrison Government and their disregard for the best interest of veterans.

Evidently, if the Morrison Government was truly serious about taking care of veterans, then filling the gaps in current care would be a priority and the proposals presented to Frydenberg and Hunt would have been assessed and implemented regardless of whether a royal commission was established.


https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/frydenbergs-move-to-b...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #22 - Feb 14th, 2022 at 8:28pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #23 - Feb 18th, 2022 at 7:28pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #24 - Mar 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #25 - Apr 15th, 2022 at 1:29pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #26 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 5:55pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #27 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 5:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 20th, 2022 at 5:55pm:


If you had been 'Blooded', required to blow the brains out of some innocent person, you too might have problems dealing with that.


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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #28 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 6:35pm
 
Australian Soldiers are just paid hit-men mercenaries for the USA's 'most invasive nation ever' policy.
No wonder they feel shame.

Heard a bunch of SAS guys called themselves the 300 Spartans. How's that for an ego wank.
No wonder they can't cope in the outside world beyond a military base and its comfort zone.
Life is too tough on the outside with us common folk.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #29 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 6:41pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29th, 2021 at 4:15pm:


The army is poo.  The people who are in the army are also victims
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #30 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 6:42pm
 
Jasin wrote on Jun 20th, 2022 at 6:35pm:
Australian Soldiers are just paid hit-men mercenaries for the USA's 'most invasive nation ever' policy.
No wonder they feel shame.

Heard a bunch of SAS guys called themselves the 300 Spartans. How's that for an ego wank.
No wonder they can't cope in the outside world beyond a military base and its comfort zone.
Life is too tough on the outside with us common folk.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #31 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 6:44pm
 
When the ADF made their VC appointment a poster boy, I was shocked and disgusted.

It devalued the award and those who came before him.  It was faarking gay shite.

...
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #32 - Jun 20th, 2022 at 8:10pm
 
Of course it was.
The ADF is a muppet industry.
Give a bravery award to try and hide a murder conviction.
ADF is so incompetent that they whinge and whine about taking orders from the British and blame the British for choking at Gallipoli, then go running like grovelling mercenaries to the USA "Please protect us!".

Civilians via James Cameron designed and built an 'Australian Made' submersible in Pyrmont that took him 11km deep. ADF couldn't build a submarine if they tried and these things only have to go down 500m at most.

When USA says "Jump!" - the ADF jumps and then lays prostrate at the feet of the USA commands.

300 Spartans Grin Talk about 'buggery' in the ranks of the SAS.

Suicides in the ADF? Figures eh. Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #33 - Jun 23rd, 2022 at 7:22pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #34 - Jun 24th, 2022 at 5:42pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #35 - Jun 27th, 2022 at 8:18pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #36 - Jun 27th, 2022 at 9:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27th, 2022 at 8:18pm:


A bit of selective reporting here I think.  By civilian standards the ADF culture is rough and intimidating, and within reason, for a very good reason.  Someone who can't deal with a bit of abuse by training staff and fellow members, and learn to give as good as they get will be unlikely to handle the pressure when it really hits the fan.

This is untrue.....  "For the soldier who has been charged … they are required to use an on-call reserve legal system," Warrant Officer Buskell said.

"I can use a legal officer to help me prepare a case against a soldier, but a soldier can't go to the same legal office and prepare their defence.


While the soldier obviously cannot use the same legal officer, he/she has exactly the same right to legal representation as anyone else, officers included. The fact that the legal officer may be a reservist is not an issue, in fact he/she may well be more experienced in court than a full time legal officer.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #37 - Jun 27th, 2022 at 10:12pm
 
Lets talk about how the Military has sponged women off the Medical world for a long time to get laid, because they had none of their own.
Then when women join their ranks to join their world - they get raped as if they had to follow an order.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #38 - Jun 27th, 2022 at 10:39pm
 
Jasin wrote on Jun 27th, 2022 at 10:12pm:
Lets talk about how the Military has sponged women off the Medical world for a long time to get laid, because they had none of their own.
Then when women join their ranks to join their world - they get raped as if they had to follow an order.


This topic is for adults only. Go away child.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #39 - Jun 27th, 2022 at 11:15pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Jun 27th, 2022 at 10:39pm:
Jasin wrote on Jun 27th, 2022 at 10:12pm:
Lets talk about how the Military has sponged women off the Medical world for a long time to get laid, because they had none of their own.
Then when women join their ranks to join their world - they get raped as if they had to follow an order.


This topic is for adults only. Go away child.


That is a borderline post, Belgarion.  Personal attacks are not allowed under the forum rules.   If you persist I will be forced to ban you, understand?  I don't agree with JaSin's comments any more than you do but he deserves respect.

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #40 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 12:09am
 
Isn't a military suicide just a contractual matter?

Didn't the victims offer their lives to their country when they signed the contract?
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #41 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:01pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #42 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:08pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 28th, 2022 at 12:09am:
Isn't a military suicide just a contractual matter?

Didn't the victims offer their lives to their country when they signed the contract?


You know there is actually something in this.

I was in the US military for 14 years, two wars.

At the very start, in boot camp they make it clear,  they are more honest than the false Hallmark cards of civilian or corporate life, that your life now belongs to the military.

Your personal happiness or desires are secondary to the greater goal.

They never lie about it.

Not from day one when the Drill Instructor wakes you up and four AM and calls you a retarded maggot.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #43 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:10pm
 
And oddly enough I have never been has happy or content than when I was in the military.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #44 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:12pm
 
However post leaving the service, the VA in the USA, and I reckon here do not do enough to thank that service.

Heal the scars.

You are basically on your own.

Back in the market of buy and sell human life.

And that is when you have to find your own greater purpose again, your service.

Nor not?
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #45 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:41pm
 
Veteran Affairs or as it used to be known, Repatriation Department was far better than the VA in the US.  Organised first after WWI it oversaw the rehabilitation of veterans, basically at no expense to them.  It's real heyday was after WWII and that flowed on to Korea and Vietnam veterans.  Today, it is sadly in decline with penny-pinching governments which have shut down and sold off the former specialist hospitals and centres.   It once did good work with military veterans.  Today it suffers from the idea of "mainstreaming" veterans, putting them into the civil health system and basically ignoring them.   My brother used to work on the Admin side and he had numerous stories to tell. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #46 - Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:44pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 28th, 2022 at 3:41pm:
Veteran Affairs or as it used to be known, Repatriation Department was far better than the VA in the US.  Organised first after WWI it oversaw the rehabilitation of veterans, basically at no expense to them.  It's real heyday was after WWII and that flowed on to Korea and Vietnam veterans.  Today, it is sadly in decline with penny-pinching governments which have shut down and sold off the former specialist hospitals and centres.   It once did good work with military veterans.  Today it suffers from the idea of "mainstreaming" veterans, putting them into the civil health system and basically ignoring them.   My brother used to work on the Admin side and he had numerous stories to tell. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Interesting.

The same process sort of occurred in the USA.

After World War II GIs got all sorts of benefits, the greatest the GI Bill which gave them free university.

Then it slowly got pared back and after the defeat in Vietnam became a fun house of irrationality.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #47 - Jun 29th, 2022 at 4:09pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #48 - Aug 9th, 2022 at 1:19pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #49 - Aug 9th, 2022 at 4:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9th, 2022 at 1:19pm:


Someone with something good to say about Vet Affairs. That must put him in a minority. Seems this bloke is ashamed of himself, which must make the problem worse. 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #50 - Aug 10th, 2022 at 7:13pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #51 - Aug 10th, 2022 at 7:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10th, 2022 at 7:13pm:


While the ABC article is predictably sensationalist, I will be very interested in what the report has to say.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #52 - Aug 11th, 2022 at 1:42pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #53 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 12:32pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #54 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:37pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #55 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 8:29pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:37pm:


   Playing devils advocate here, I note this statement: Mr Huggett told the commission he went on to hide his injury to avoid being moved to lighter duties.   ....
   This is a fact of life in the ADF, people hide injuries and illness to avoid being removed from the unit or through a perception of being labelled a malingerer, only to have it bite them on the arse years later.
   As for a reluctance to spend money on  proper treatment, I don't know what the Army does but I know that when I saw the MO about a mark on my back he checked it out and sent me to a Macquarie Street specialist for a second opinion. 
      I never saw a reluctance to provide  treatment by any RAN medical personnel on cost grounds. 
   I hate to say it, but among the many genuine cases I think there are also a number who are jumping on the 'veterans' bandwagon purely for personal gain.  Sad
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #56 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 9:49pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 8:29pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:37pm:


   Playing devils advocate here, I note this statement: Mr Huggett told the commission he went on to hide his injury to avoid being moved to lighter duties.   ....
   This is a fact of life in the ADF, people hide injuries and illness to avoid being removed from the unit or through a perception of being labelled a malingerer, only to have it bite them on the arse years later.
   As for a reluctance to spend money on  proper treatment, I don't know what the Army does but I know that when I saw the MO about a mark on my back he checked it out and sent me to a Macquarie Street specialist for a second opinion. 
      I never saw a reluctance to provide  treatment by any RAN medical personnel on cost grounds. 
   I hate to say it, but among the many genuine cases I think there are also a number who are jumping on the 'veterans' bandwagon purely for personal gain.  Sad


I think he is referring to post employment.  I have never had a problem either.  I once cracked several teeth and after I left the army I needed treatment.  It was all arranged by my civvie dentist.  It helped that he was ex-dental corps so understood the system and charged the Army for my treatment.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #57 - Oct 21st, 2022 at 7:55pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #58 - Oct 25th, 2022 at 7:51pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #59 - Oct 26th, 2022 at 4:51pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #60 - Oct 27th, 2022 at 7:50pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #61 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 5:40pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #62 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 5:44pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 5:40pm:


Among all the genuine cases that deserve attention there are some that do not ring true, this being one of them.  Huh
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #63 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 7:14pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 5:44pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28th, 2022 at 5:40pm:


Among all the genuine cases that deserve attention there are some that do not ring true, this being one of them.  Huh


Unfortunately, yes, I tend to agree with you.  As an observer back in the late 1980's, I watched the cadets and their discipline was different to boot camp for ORs and uni students, not harder, just different.  They could be charged for lack of attendance at lectures/tutes - complete anathema to uni students - but normal in a military environment.  This bloke struck me as a bit "precious". Roll Eyes
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #64 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 4:02pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #65 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:39am
 
The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year. 


This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate?
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #66 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 11:14am
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:39am:
The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year. 

This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate? 


Doesn't say why they are discharged - obviously unsuitable for the ADF - not everyone is and there should be no shame at having tried and failed, something they have to understand. Roll Eyes


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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #67 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 12:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 11:14am:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:39am:
The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year. 

This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate? 


Doesn't say why they are discharged - obviously unsuitable for the ADF - not everyone is and there should be no shame at having tried and failed, something they have to understand. Roll Eyes


Yes, many people are not suited to the ADF and, having grown up in a society where children are increasingly shielded from competition and failure, they may find the reality too hard to handle.   I would be interested to know what the recruit failure rate is these days.  When I joined in 1974 there were about 100 in my Division and as I recall about 70 passed out. I think that was normal for the time.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #68 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:50pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #69 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 12:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:50pm:


I can't say for certain, however I feel that this may be another case of someone with an axe to grind.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #70 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 3:50pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #71 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 4:15pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 3:50pm:


Seriously? The accommodation is to blame rater then the behaviour of some individuals?  And as for this: 

The royal commission also heard the high-pressure environment at ADFA contributed to a higher risk of mental health issues for recruits. 

It heard the average age of the cohort was between 17 and 22 and more than 70 per cent of trainees were male. 

Colonel Cave accepted that a combination of young and immature trainees, a high-pressure environment, and recruits who are selected to be conscientious created a perfect storm for unacceptable behaviour and poor mental health. 


Not buying it. The system is designed to put pressure on the cadets, some will handle it and some will not. This does not excuse the abuse that really happened, however the statement is ridiculous and shows no appreciation for the realities of ADF service.

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #72 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 4:40pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 4:15pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 3:50pm:


Seriously? The accommodation is to blame rater then the behaviour of some individuals? 



The way accommodation is designed and actually used with the Cadets can contribute to the way they act.  My question is why are they all mixed genders and unsupervised the way they are?  Personally, I preferred the pre-ADFA RAN method of officer training: they were all sent to a civvie uni until they graduated with periods of military professional training during their holiday periods followed by an intensive military training period.  It allowed the cadets to work out their hormones without the military deciding how they should act.

Quote:
And as for this: 

The royal commission also heard the high-pressure environment at ADFA contributed to a higher risk of mental health issues for recruits. 

It heard the average age of the cohort was between 17 and 22 and more than 70 per cent of trainees were male. 

Colonel Cave accepted that a combination of young and immature trainees, a high-pressure environment, and recruits who are selected to be conscientious created a perfect storm for unacceptable behaviour and poor mental health. 


Not buying it. The system is designed to put pressure on the cadets, some will handle it and some will not. This does not excuse the abuse that really happened, however the statement is ridiculous and shows no appreciation for the realities of ADF service.


The pressure they should be under is to perform well at their studies while studying and in the military while training.  Makes a well adjusted individual who is more mature when they finally graduate.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #73 - Dec 2nd, 2022 at 12:59pm
 
What sort of accommodation do they have? How does it differ from the setup in any civilian university hall of residence? I do think the emphasis on the accommodation is effectively making an excuse for the poor behaviour of some individuals.
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #74 - Mar 22nd, 2023 at 11:01am
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #75 - May 16th, 2023 at 5:19pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #76 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 2:09pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #77 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 9:07pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #78 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 9:47pm
 
While there are certainly a large number of genuine problems out there, and I know some of them personally, I also think there are a number who are trying it on in order to obtain benefits.   

I once asked my female sailors - 4 in all - if they had ever experienced any sexual harassment, either in our current posting or anywhere previously. Answers ranged from nothing I haven't been able to handle to I wouldn't mind some right now.  However these were Naval Police, chosen for their ability to deal with difficult situations and in their mid to late 20s,  slightly older than many sailors who may not have been able to deal with this issue in the same way.   
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #79 - Jul 22nd, 2023 at 3:46pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #80 - Aug 28th, 2023 at 8:45pm
 
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #81 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 11:29am
 
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #82 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 5:44pm
 
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #83 - Mar 12th, 2024 at 3:58pm
 
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #84 - Mar 13th, 2024 at 11:54am
 
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #85 - Sep 9th, 2024 at 5:13pm
 
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« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2024 at 5:44pm by Brian Ross »  

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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