Australian Politics Forum - Royal commision into ADF suicides

Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #60 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 7:50pm Open Arms counselling service acknowledges key policy documents are out of date, defence suicide royal commission hears
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #61 - Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:40pm Former army cadet alleges ADFA culture of silence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide
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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5310 Gender:	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #62 - Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:44pm Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:40pm: Former army cadet alleges ADFA culture of silence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide Among all the genuine cases that deserve attention there are some that do not ring true, this being one of them.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #63 - Nov 28^th, 2022 at 7:14pm

Belgarion wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 28^th, 2022 at 5:40pm:

Former army cadet alleges ADFA culture of silence at Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide Roll Eyes

Among all the genuine cases that deserve attention there are some that do not ring true, this being one of them. Huh

Unfortunately, yes, I tend to agree with you. As an observer back in the late 1980's, I watched the cadets and their discipline was different to boot camp for ORs and uni students, not harder, just different. They could be charged for lack of attendance at lectures/tutes - complete anathema to uni students - but normal in a military environment. This bloke struck me as a bit "precious". Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #64 - Nov 29^th, 2022 at 4:02pm Army commander responds to bullying, sexual misconduct statistics at defence suicide royal commission
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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5310 Gender:	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #65 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:39am The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year. This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate?
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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #66 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 11:14am

Belgarion wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:39am:

The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year.

This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate?

Doesn't say why they are discharged - obviously unsuitable for the ADF - not everyone is and there should be no shame at having tried and failed, something they have to understand. Roll Eyes

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Belgarion

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #67 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 12:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 11:14am:

Belgarion wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 10:39am:

The royal commission is examining involuntary medical discharge, with higher rates of suicide for men who served with the defence force for less than one year.

This is interesting. They are saying that recruits and junior personnel discharged with less than 12 months service have a higher suicide rate?

Doesn't say why they are discharged - obviously unsuitable for the ADF - not everyone is and there should be no shame at having tried and failed, something they have to understand. Roll Eyes

Yes, many people are not suited to the ADF and, having grown up in a society where children are increasingly shielded from competition and failure, they may find the reality too hard to handle. I would be interested to know what the recruit failure rate is these days. When I joined in 1974 there were about 100 in my Division and as I recall about 70 passed out. I think that was normal for the time.

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #68 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 3:50pm Veteran describes harrowing army experience to defence suicide royal commission, including alleged sexual assault
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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5310 Gender:	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #69 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 12:33pm Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 3:50pm: Veteran describes harrowing army experience to defence suicide royal commission, including alleged sexual assault I can't say for certain, however I feel that this may be another case of someone with an axe to grind.
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #70 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 3:50pm Defence suicide royal commission hears ADFA cadet accommodation is a 'breeding ground' for unnacceptable behaviour
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Belgarion

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #71 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

Defence suicide royal commission hears ADFA cadet accommodation is a 'breeding ground' for unnacceptable behaviour Roll Eyes

Seriously? The accommodation is to blame rater then the behaviour of some individuals? And as for this:

The royal commission also heard the high-pressure environment at ADFA contributed to a higher risk of mental health issues for recruits.

It heard the average age of the cohort was between 17 and 22 and more than 70 per cent of trainees were male.

Colonel Cave accepted that a combination of young and immature trainees, a high-pressure environment, and recruits who are selected to be conscientious created a perfect storm for unacceptable behaviour and poor mental health.

Not buying it. The system is designed to put pressure on the cadets, some will handle it and some will not. This does not excuse the abuse that really happened, however the statement is ridiculous and shows no appreciation for the realities of ADF service.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides
Reply #72 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:40pm

Belgarion wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

Defence suicide royal commission hears ADFA cadet accommodation is a 'breeding ground' for unnacceptable behaviour Roll Eyes

Seriously? The accommodation is to blame rater then the behaviour of some individuals?

The way accommodation is designed and actually used with the Cadets can contribute to the way they act. My question is why are they all mixed genders and unsupervised the way they are? Personally, I preferred the pre-ADFA RAN method of officer training: they were all sent to a civvie uni until they graduated with periods of military professional training during their holiday periods followed by an intensive military training period. It allowed the cadets to work out their hormones without the military deciding how they should act.

Quote:

And as for this:

The royal commission also heard the high-pressure environment at ADFA contributed to a higher risk of mental health issues for recruits.

It heard the average age of the cohort was between 17 and 22 and more than 70 per cent of trainees were male.

Colonel Cave accepted that a combination of young and immature trainees, a high-pressure environment, and recruits who are selected to be conscientious created a perfect storm for unacceptable behaviour and poor mental health.

Not buying it. The system is designed to put pressure on the cadets, some will handle it and some will not. This does not excuse the abuse that really happened, however the statement is ridiculous and shows no appreciation for the realities of ADF service.

The pressure they should be under is to perform well at their studies while studying and in the military while training. Makes a well adjusted individual who is more mature when they finally graduate.

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5310 Gender:	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #73 - Dec 2^nd, 2022 at 12:59pm What sort of accommodation do they have? How does it differ from the setup in any civilian university hall of residence? I do think the emphasis on the accommodation is effectively making an excuse for the poor behaviour of some individuals.
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: Royal commision into ADF suicides Reply #74 - Mar 22^nd, 2023 at 11:01am Defence personnel and veterans rush to beat Royal Commission deadline
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