Australian Politics Forum - Alec Baldwin

SadKangaroo

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #60 - Oct 27^th, 2021 at 4:00pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 3:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 6:50am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

Do you read about or research anything before you post these types of stupid claims?

You mean the commonsense approach about being responsible for handling firearms, checking to see if the firearm is loaded, before using the weapon to create a scene? I think I would make a "stupid claim" like that so that a co-worker does not get shot. Whatever more intelligent strategy than my "stupid claim" there is, I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, rhino.

Its not his job. Hes an actor.

Spot

I would not see why not being an armourer would mean Baldwin is exempt from a duty of care in handling a weapon.

That "duty of care" is unworkable, at least here.

As I've said, if you're an actor and you tamper with the weapon that is handed to you, doing anything to it outside of what is called for in the scene, and this includes examining the ammunition, everything stops and the weapon has to be resanitised.

That said, he was handed a gun and told it was a "cold gun", so it should have had no blanks loaded, let alone live rounds.

He was certainly part of the tree of failure, but the responsibility doesn't lie with him.

In his shoes, I would be unable to process the situation but I dare say I would never be able to trust someone else to do their job again, and that would make my professional lift a nightmare.

But at least I'd be alive to experience that nightmare, something sadly Halyna Hutchins won't be able to.

And hell, the fact that some of her last words were "I can't feel my legs" ffs... It makes me so angry this happened to the poor woman...

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greggerypeccary Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131616 Gender:	Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident Reply #61 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:27pm
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Frank

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #62 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:33pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 6:50am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

Do you read about or research anything before you post these types of stupid claims?

You mean the commonsense approach about being responsible for handling firearms, checking to see if the firearm is loaded, before using the weapon to create a scene? I think I would make a "stupid claim" like that so that a co-worker does not get shot. Whatever more intelligent strategy than my "stupid claim" there is, I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, rhino.

Its not his job. Hes an actor.

Spot

Remember that when actors and celebrities offer you political or moral advice.

It's not their jobs. They are paid clowns and court jesters.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72313 Gender:	Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident Reply #63 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:38pm Frank wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:33pm: Remember that when actors and celebrities offer you political or moral advice. god you're an idiot
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #64 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:42pm

Frank wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:33pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 6:50am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

Do you read about or research anything before you post these types of stupid claims?

You mean the commonsense approach about being responsible for handling firearms, checking to see if the firearm is loaded, before using the weapon to create a scene? I think I would make a "stupid claim" like that so that a co-worker does not get shot. Whatever more intelligent strategy than my "stupid claim" there is, I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, rhino.

Its not his job. Hes an actor.

Spot

Remember that when actors and celebrities offer you political or moral advice.

It's not their jobs. They are paid clowns and court jesters.

Oh.

Like this guy (on the right), you mean:

Before entering politics he was an actor and a celebrity.

So, according to you, nobody should be listening to this clown.

Thoughts?

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #65 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:11pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 4:00pm:

That "duty of care" is unworkable, at least here.

Occupational health and safety, in relation to firearms, would mean that someone holding the firearm has a "duty of care" to make sure the weapon is used in a safe manner.

Hypothetical scenario 1: Imagine if you had a pistol in your hand and you walked around town with the firearm. Oh, the pistol is not loaded. But you like to carry the pistol around because you like guns. The police get called to attend a person waving around a pistol in public. The police show up and point their guns at you, demanding that you put the gun down. You wave the gun around, claiming that it is not loaded and that your duty of care is unworkable, at least here. The police shoot you, thinking that the taser option is not feasible. They handcuff you and you get your medical care as soon as possible. The police determine that the pistol you were holding was actually not loaded. It does not change the fact that you are breaking the law/acting reckless.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/police-speak-alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-h...

We have a situation here where the actor, Alec Baldwin, was given a gun that he claims to be "cold" (safe). Irrelevant that the actor was told that the gun was safe to use, in terms of Mr Baldwin was still in possession of a weapon that could fire live rounds. Mr Baldwin should have checked to see if there were rounds in the gun. And then he should have used the weapon in a safe manner.

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rhino

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #66 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:29pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 8:24pm:

UnSubRocky:
Quote:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

rhino:
Quote:

i have highlighted your post, diverting here isnt helping you.

I stand by my comments that a real gun is not a theatrical property (ie, "prop") if the item fires live ammunition. I consider it a weapon. And I do not care that just about anything can be considered a prop if it is used in a theatrical performance. A weapon is still a weapon. And if used improperly or negligently, the "prop" is not considered a prop.

A woman died because someone authorised to handle weapons failed in their duty of care to take safety precautions. Then the user who handled the weapon failed in his duty of care to make sure that he checked to see if the weapon was safe to use. This is a workplace health and safety issue. And an actor made the mistake twice in one moment, shooting two people, during a scene where the firearm was discharged.

I am not going to get bogged down in semantics about whether a gun can be called a "prop" if it is used in some form of theatrical performance. The firearm is still a weapon if it is capable of being used to fire ammunition.

Heres a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.

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rhino

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #67 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:31pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:11pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 4:00pm:

That "duty of care" is unworkable, at least here.

Occupational health and safety, in relation to firearms, would mean that someone holding the firearm has a "duty of care" to make sure the weapon is used in a safe manner.

Really? can you quote the relevant section of OHS regulations in relation to firearms on move sets, thanks. (You wont because you just told a lie)

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Frank

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #68 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:33pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 6:50am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

Do you read about or research anything before you post these types of stupid claims?

You mean the commonsense approach about being responsible for handling firearms, checking to see if the firearm is loaded, before using the weapon to create a scene? I think I would make a "stupid claim" like that so that a co-worker does not get shot. Whatever more intelligent strategy than my "stupid claim" there is, I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, rhino.

Its not his job. Hes an actor.

Spot

Remember that when actors and celebrities offer you political or moral advice.

It's not their jobs. They are paid clowns and court jesters.

Oh.

Like this guy (on the right), you mean:

https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/12272019_trump-cut_11...

Before entering politics he was an actor and a celebrity.

So, according to you, nobody should be listening to this clown.

Thoughts?

He got elected, turd.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #69 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:02pm

rhino wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:31pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:11pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 4:00pm:

That "duty of care" is unworkable, at least here.

Occupational health and safety, in relation to firearms, would mean that someone holding the firearm has a "duty of care" to make sure the weapon is used in a safe manner.

Really? can you quote the relevant section of OHS regulations in relation to firearms on move sets, thanks. (You wont because you just told a lie)

Handling a firearm in any situation requires the user to exercise a duty of care. Safe storage, maintenance, and proper handling of a firearm is simply common sense. But, you want me to go on a hunt for relevant regulations in relation to firearm safety? I will go you one better and ask that you also go and find relevant section of OHS regulations that allows an actor to fire a loaded firearm on movie sets. What are the limits that the actor can have in relation to discharging a loaded firearm?

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #70 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:10pm

rhino wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:29pm:

Heres a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.

Anything portable and used to convey a story is called a prop in the theatre industry. But firearms that fire ammunition are also weapons.

In relation to your concerns from another post:

GOLDEN RULES
• Firearms can only be supplied by an experienced, credentialled and licensed armourer.
• Performers only handle firearms with the instruction and approval of the licensed armourer.
• Engage a Safety Supervisor to oversight all stunt-related activity.
• Assume guns – real and imitation – require licenses and permits to be used on set.
• Prepare a risk management safety plan clearly highlighting instances where firearms are to be used.
• Never point a firearm at anyone, including yourself.
• No live projectile ammunition – ever - unless for humane destruction of animals.
• Blanks can kill – they are explosive-type devices. Test blanks before using on-set.
• Provide PPE for risks such as hearing damage and burns.
• Inform police and local residents if you’re using real or fake firearms.

Source: https://www.film.vic.gov.au/images/uploads/National-Guidelines-for-Screen-Safety...

NATIONAL
GUIDELINES FOR
SCREEN SAFETY -- June 2021 (version 2)

That is from the Screen Safe Australia.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #71 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:19pm

Frank wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 5:33pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 6:50am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 26^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

It is not a prop gun if it fires live ammunition. Baldwin should have been experienced enough to know this.

Do you read about or research anything before you post these types of stupid claims?

You mean the commonsense approach about being responsible for handling firearms, checking to see if the firearm is loaded, before using the weapon to create a scene? I think I would make a "stupid claim" like that so that a co-worker does not get shot. Whatever more intelligent strategy than my "stupid claim" there is, I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, rhino.

Its not his job. Hes an actor.

Spot

Remember that when actors and celebrities offer you political or moral advice.

It's not their jobs. They are paid clowns and court jesters.

Oh.

Like this guy (on the right), you mean:

https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/12272019_trump-cut_11...

Before entering politics he was an actor and a celebrity.

So, according to you, nobody should be listening to this clown.

Thoughts?

He got elected, turd.

He's a clown, though.

That's how you described him.

A paid clown and court jester.

Do you make exemptions for him because he's an alleged child rapist?

I'm curious.

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rhino

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #72 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:27pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:10pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:29pm:

Heres a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.

Anything portable and used to convey a story is called a prop in the theatre industry. But firearms that fire ammunition are also weapons.

In relation to your concerns from another post:

GOLDEN RULES
• Firearms can only be supplied by an experienced, credentialled and licensed armourer.
• Performers only handle firearms with the instruction and approval of the licensed armourer.
• Engage a Safety Supervisor to oversight all stunt-related activity.
• Assume guns – real and imitation – require licenses and permits to be used on set.
• Prepare a risk management safety plan clearly highlighting instances where firearms are to be used.
• Never point a firearm at anyone, including yourself.
• No live projectile ammunition – ever - unless for humane destruction of animals.
• Blanks can kill – they are explosive-type devices. Test blanks before using on-set.
• Provide PPE for risks such as hearing damage and burns.
• Inform police and local residents if you’re using real or fake firearms.

Source: https://www.film.vic.gov.au/images/uploads/National-Guidelines-for-Screen-Safety...

NATIONAL
GUIDELINES FOR
SCREEN SAFETY -- June 2021 (version 2)

That is from the Screen Safe Australia.

You idiot. the shooting happened in America Victorian government legislation doesnt mean much over there. Now quote the relevant American legislation since you claimed to know all about it. See how you look stupid when you try to claim things you know nothing about? You do it to yourself every time. Heres a hint for you, better be thought a fool and keep your mouth shut than open it and be known as one.

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rhino

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #73 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:29pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:10pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 8:29pm:

Heres a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.

Anything portable and used to convey a story is called a prop in the theatre industry. But firearms that fire ammunition are also weapons.

No one said they arent weapons you idiot, they are called prop guns in the threatre. You are especially slow tonite.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #74 - Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:46pm

rhino wrote on Oct 28^th, 2021 at 10:27pm:

You idiot. the shooting happened in America Victorian government legislation doesnt mean much over there. Now quote the relevant American legislation since you claimed to know all about it. See how you look stupid when you try to claim things you know nothing about? You do it to yourself every time. Heres a hint for you, better be thought a fool and keep your mouth shut than open it and be known as one.

Earlier tonight, rhino said Quote:

Really? can you quote the relevant section of OHS regulations in relation to firearms on move sets, thanks. (You wont because you just told a lie)

I managed to quote OHS regulations in relation to firearms on movie sets. The fact that you did not specify quoting regulations from the United States (or New Mexico) was the problem from you. Not me.

Go cite regulation where the actors are allowed to fire live ammunition on a movie set. Specifically, cite how actors are allowed to fire at other members of the crew without consequence.

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