Australian Politics Forum - Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land

Laugh till you cry

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #45 - Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:23pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:08pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:33pm:

The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both.

It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge.

There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most.

And from the mid 20th century to date my money on those who need it most are the Jewish survivors and their descendants.

And so it goes with history into the present...

I doubt your money travels very far from your pocket. Certainly not gifted to others.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #46 - Jun 4^th, 2021 at 12:01am

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:23pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:08pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:33pm:

The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both.

It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge.

There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most.

And from the mid 20th century to date my money on those who need it most are the Jewish survivors and their descendants.

And so it goes with history into the present...

I doubt your money travels very far from your pocket. Certainly not gifted to others.

Certainly, eh?

I'm certain you're a virtue signaller... How bought in to grievance culture are you?

What's your back story?

Meaningful suffering is easily got by identifying with the aggrieved without having suffered their suffering...

Once assimilated, suffering is easily made 'meaningful' and 'outrage' is easily deemed 'righteous' for little cost or effort.

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #47 - Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:13pm

Bertie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:25pm:

The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'.

Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights. Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan.

Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #48 - Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:19pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:55pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:44pm:

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years.....

"only 414 years"

That is an absurd claim, imo.

Shame on you wombatwoody.

.

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:08am:

Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history

Could you answer some basic questions about the country of Palestine ? :

1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What language did the Palestinians speak?
3. What writing [script] did they use?
4. What manuscripts did they leave?
5. What was their religion?
6. Where are their temples?
7. What monuments attest to their existence?
8. What were its borders?
9. What was the name of its capital?
10. What were its major cities?
11. What constituted the basis of its economy?
12. What was the name of the currency that they used?
13. What was its form of government?
14. What achievements have they accomplished?
15. What other peoples did Palestine interact with?
16. Where can one find any [historic] records, wherein the country of Palestine and its people are mentioned?
17. What archaeological sites can one name?
18. Where can one find the recorded history of these people?
19. Whom did they conquer?, or, were conquered by?
20. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation [or doubt]?
21. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
22. Can anyone name at least five Palestinian leaders before Arafat?
23. Finally, since there is no such recognised country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

Further, why did these proud 'Palestinians' between 1948 and 1967, passively, allow themselves to be occupied by the Jordanians in the 'West Bank', and by the Egyptians in Gaza?

Those Q's [above] are taken from;

Part 142 - Palestine and Palestinians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04iGfi9No6M

...........
...........

'The Palestinian State', is a national entity that has never existed, and which can never exist, except within the borders of Jordan [the nation which is the ancient homeland of all of the 'Palestinian' people].

Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392646116/0#0

.

The reality is that a 'Palestinian nation' has NEVER EXISTED.

But [in contrast], historic accounts attest, that Jewish people have certainly inhabited that land from 1,400 BC, forward.

And...... 1,400 BC to 2,021 > 414 years.

.

But moslems will insist that it was only ever moslems, that inhabited the land of 'Palestine'.
....AND NEVER A JEWISH PEOPLE.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1557114588/25#25

Quote:

Temple Mount '100% Islamic'
June 01, 2008
"....Taysir Tamimi, chief Palestinian Justice and one of the most influential Muslim leaders in Israel, argued the Jewish Temples never existed,...."

Quote:

n.b.

And just look how moslems respond,

whenever additional, independent historic sources, contradict the moslem 'narrative' of 'their' history....

".....descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged,...."

Oh, but of course they were!

.

QUESTION;
Who are we going to believe ?

Accepted, authentic, historic records [from differing sources],
or the self-serving narratives of moslems ?

.

QUESTION;
Please tell me, what is the origin of the name Judea ?

A name, which has been associated with an area of land inhabited by JEWISH PEOPLE for millennia ?

Judea ?

....Oh, i wonder if that name for the land, came from the Koran ? /sarc off

QUESTION;
For how many centuries has the name Judea been used [to identify that area of land] ?

Right, Palestine never existed. But you could fly there, from New York, on a major international airline.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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Frank

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #49 - Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:46pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:13pm:

Bertie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:25pm:

The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'.

Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights. Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan.

Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

Muslim Arabs. That's the point. Not 'Palestinians'.

Because IF whoever lives in what the Romans renamed as Palestine IS Palestinian then all the Israeli Jews living there now are ALSO Palestinians.

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Belgarion

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #50 - Jun 5^th, 2021 at 7:39pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:14pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:39pm:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

And therefor?

Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

More to the point - do you??

Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Yes! this is the conundrum isn't it? Seems that those who are keen on spruiking the idea that Aboriginals are the rightful owners of Australia have a totally different view when it comes to the Jews and Israel. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #51 - Jun 5^th, 2021 at 10:26pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:14pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:39pm:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

And therefor?

Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

More to the point - do you??

Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to ALL non-Abos they want gone and you have a deal.

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issuevoter

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #52 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 11:35am

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel.
Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then.
This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality.
And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it?

Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #53 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 12:42pm

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 11:35am:

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel.
Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then.
This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality.
And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it?

Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been.

Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there.

Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality.

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issuevoter

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #54 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 1:10pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 12:42pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 11:35am:

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel.
Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then.
This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality.
And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it?

Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been.

Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there.

Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality.

Nah, but a nice try. Its religion; that was the cause of the Hebron massacre. Muzlums killing Jews, not the British, who they were happy to go along with - when it suited them.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #55 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 1:15pm

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 12:42pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 11:35am:

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel.
Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then.
This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality.
And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it?

Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been.

Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there.

Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality.

Nah, but a nice try. Its religion; that was the cause of the Hebron massacre. Muzlums killing Jews, not the British, who they were happy to go along with - when it suited them.

No... it was one side killing the other... fighting over territorial claims...

It doesn't mean religion won't be used as a rallying cry the way ethnicity is... But it is not essential... Only useful.

Many crusader leaders, even Popes, didn't even believe in god... But it didn't stop them from the dream of capturing the 'holy land'.

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Aussie

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #56 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 4:23pm

Frank wrote on Jun 5^th, 2021 at 10:26pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:14pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:39pm:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

And therefor?

Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

More to the point - do you??

Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to ALL non-Abos they want gone and you have a deal.

Why, given the citizens of the State of Israel had their infrastructure built on the back of ongoing massive Western aid.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #57 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 4:51pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 4:23pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 5^th, 2021 at 10:26pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:14pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:39pm:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

And therefor?

Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

More to the point - do you??

Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to ALL non-Abos they want gone and you have a deal.

Why, given the citizens of the State of Israel had their infrastructure built on the back of ongoing massive Western aid.

And the billions in reparations paid to Israel from the 50's by West Germany (later Germany)...

In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further €450 million to €1 billion in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors.

In 2010, according to the German finance ministry, Nazi Germany robbed 120 billion reichsmarks from Jews (approximately US$20 billion).

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 52929 Gender:	Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land Reply #58 - Jun 6^th, 2021 at 5:03pm Almost all US aid to Israel is military aid. It's not for civilian purposes. All the aid given to the Palestinians is for civilian purposes - and what have they done with it?? They built another Arab kleptocracy. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/306179-palestinian-klepto...
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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land
Reply #59 - Jun 7^th, 2021 at 1:46am

Frank wrote on Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:46pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:13pm:

Bertie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:25pm:

The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'.

Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights. Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan.

Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

Muslim Arabs. That's the point. Not 'Palestinians'.

They were there living on the land historically known as Palestine. It's natural they would call themselves that. Besides, why should they not have the right to self-determination?

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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