Australian Politics Forum - Waiting For Angus

Vic

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Waiting For Angus
May 8^th, 2021 at 9:41am

"He received an extremely light sentence despite pleading not guilty. His light sentence was also given because senior officers suffered “great disgrace and embarrassment” by being court-martialled and that he MIGHT medically discharge due to mental health because the predator is the victim right? Sounds like another case of “brass” privilege"

If this had been a mere mortal, they would have been absolutely charged to the hilt, publicly vilified, made an example of, and anything else that could be thrown at them. Where are you Angus?

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5743 Gender:	Re: Waiting For Angus Reply #1 - May 8^th, 2021 at 9:52am A senior Army officer based in Canberra? Probably one of Campbells pets, and thus a protected species.
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cods

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #2 - May 8^th, 2021 at 10:05am

good grief we can smell the sanctimony Roll Eyes

..yes he shouldnt have touched her for sure but seriously you want him hung and drawn for "touching"?????????

my god what would you have demanded had he kissed her?..

next time someone bumps into me in the shops I am going to sue the hell out them...drunk or not.

we are getting as rabid as the yanks.. and or Bobby demanding death at all costs.

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Vic

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #3 - May 8^th, 2021 at 10:16am

cods wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:05am:

good grief we can smell the sanctimony Roll Eyes

..yes he shouldnt have touched her for sure but seriously you want him hung and drawn for "touching"?????????

my god what would you have demanded had he kissed her?..

next time someone bumps into me in the shops I am going to sue the hell out them...drunk or not.

we are getting as rabid as the yanks.. and or Bobby demanding death at all costs.

If you are replying to me, then no, I want him treated the same as anyone and everyone else that commits this sort of crime. Not to be given a lighter sentence because "he may discharge later this year because of mental issues". As to the rest of your reply, do you understand the difference between a military courts martial for what is sexual harassment committed by a person in the Defence Forces , and the civilian actions of suing someone because they bumped into you in a supermarket? It doesn't read that way. The way your sentence is written in that respect does not make clear if it was you or the other person who was drunk at the time - but let's let that go through to the keeper.

If you had also read the OP correctly, the term used was "drunkenly molested" not "touched her". If you also use that fantastic lookup software called "Google" and look up this creep, you will also find that he has a Daughter in the Army, and they used that fact to expose their "family values" in joining the Defence Force. But, by all means, support this bloke all you wish - it is after all your decision to offer support to men who force themselves on women because they have had a few drinks. I bet he votes Liberal as well.

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« Last Edit: May 8^th, 2021 at 10:22am by Vic »

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cods

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #4 - May 8^th, 2021 at 10:54am

Vic wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:16am:

cods wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:05am:

good grief we can smell the sanctimony Roll Eyes

..yes he shouldnt have touched her for sure but seriously you want him hung and drawn for "touching"?????????

my god what would you have demanded had he kissed her?..

next time someone bumps into me in the shops I am going to sue the hell out them...drunk or not.

we are getting as rabid as the yanks.. and or Bobby demanding death at all costs.

If you are replying to me, then no, I want him treated the same as anyone and everyone else that commits this sort of crime. Not to be given a lighter sentence because "he may discharge later this year because of mental issues". As to the rest of your reply, do you understand the difference between a military courts martial for what is sexual harassment committed by a person in the Defence Forces , and the civilian actions of suing someone because they bumped into you in a supermarket? It doesn't read that way. The way your sentence is written in that respect does not make clear if it was you or the other person who was drunk at the time - but let's let that go through to the keeper.

If you had also read the OP correctly, the term used was "drunkenly molested" not "touched her". If you also use that fantastic lookup software called "Google" and look up this creep, you will also find that he has a Daughter in the Army, and they used that fact to expose their "family values" in joining the Defence Force. But, by all means, support this bloke all you wish - it is after all your decision to offer support to men who force themselves on women because they have had a few drinks. I bet he votes Liberal as well.

i have just had an argument with unsub about the word witness.... now its touch against molest....so now if someone accidently touches.. you on the leg it can be classed as molested......wow.....how the goal posts are being shifted......how do you knowwhat would happen to him if he was a nobody like most of us?????...was he tried in a court of law???...... at the end of the day I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill thats all....no one is saying he was right and being drunk is not an excuse.....but I am sure the ladies life will go on..I am sure this guy picture in the news as well....is highly disturbed by his actions....but I dont think his life should be torn apart over it....

I am really concerned about Craig McLachlan whos life is in ruins over women being allowed to sue when some of these things could have been resolved by maybe an apology for bad behavior...... why does it all go to court where we all know SOMEONE HAS TO LOSE.....and it isnt always fair...imo....it is only an opinion vic I dont have a thing to do with appeals or otherwise... Undecided

btw vic never had anything to do with a Military court but when young men are sending videos of their sexual exploits to all and sundry without permission and have the privilege of being a member of Duntroon..... I think this just doesnt compare..

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 44502	Re: Waiting For Angus Reply #5 - May 8^th, 2021 at 12:39pm Calm your tempers please! Otherwise I will be forced to lock this thread. If you cannot explain your position dispassionately, you don't belong here. Understand?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #6 - May 8^th, 2021 at 12:47pm

ADFA is a seperate instition to Duntroon, Cods. All you are showing is you lack of knowledge and understanding of Australian military matters. Vic, please understand that Cods is talking from a position of ignorance and needs guidance, not admonishment. This fellow leaves a rather lot of distaste but he isn't alone in what he has done. I find it interesting that he was caught by the catch-all charge of "prejudicial to good order and discipline," rather than anything more strenuous. Cods, such a charge is habitually brought to make sure the charged person will be found guilty, no matter what the outcome of the other charges are. It is usually tacked on the end of the charge sheet. It would appear he is more unpopular than a pork chop at a bar mitzvah barbecue if that was thrown in to make sure he was found guilty. Roll Eyes

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Vic

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #7 - May 8^th, 2021 at 12:55pm

cods wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:54am:

Vic wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:16am:

cods wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 10:05am:

good grief we can smell the sanctimony Roll Eyes

..yes he shouldnt have touched her for sure but seriously you want him hung and drawn for "touching"?????????

my god what would you have demanded had he kissed her?..

next time someone bumps into me in the shops I am going to sue the hell out them...drunk or not.

we are getting as rabid as the yanks.. and or Bobby demanding death at all costs.

If you are replying to me, then no, I want him treated the same as anyone and everyone else that commits this sort of crime. Not to be given a lighter sentence because "he may discharge later this year because of mental issues". As to the rest of your reply, do you understand the difference between a military courts martial for what is sexual harassment committed by a person in the Defence Forces , and the civilian actions of suing someone because they bumped into you in a supermarket? It doesn't read that way. The way your sentence is written in that respect does not make clear if it was you or the other person who was drunk at the time - but let's let that go through to the keeper.

If you had also read the OP correctly, the term used was "drunkenly molested" not "touched her". If you also use that fantastic lookup software called "Google" and look up this creep, you will also find that he has a Daughter in the Army, and they used that fact to expose their "family values" in joining the Defence Force. But, by all means, support this bloke all you wish - it is after all your decision to offer support to men who force themselves on women because they have had a few drinks. I bet he votes Liberal as well.

i have just had an argument with unsub about the word witness.... now its touch against molest....so now if someone accidently touches.. you on the leg it can be classed as molested......wow.....how the goal posts are being shifted......how do you knowwhat would happen to him if he was a nobody like most of us?????...was he tried in a court of law???...... at the end of the day I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill thats all....no one is saying he was right and being drunk is not an excuse.....but I am sure the ladies life will go on..I am sure this guy picture in the news as well....is highly disturbed by his actions....but I dont think his life should be torn apart over it....

I am really concerned about Craig McLachlan whos life is in ruins over women being allowed to sue when some of these things could have been resolved by maybe an apology for bad behavior...... why does it all go to court where we all know SOMEONE HAS TO LOSE.....and it isnt always fair...imo....it is only an opinion vic I dont have a thing to do with appeals or otherwise... Undecided

btw vic never had anything to do with a Military court but when young men are sending videos of their sexual exploits to all and sundry without permission and have the privilege of being a member of Duntroon..... I think this just doesnt compare..

No, I am not making a mountain out of a molehill. I am merely quoting an article and expressing a view that what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. This "Senior Officer" groped a young woman and is basically being let off with a slip on the wrist. Just about every other incident of this that has come to light in a military environment has been dealt with by demotion, large fines, discharge or other means. Yet this man gets nothing of sunstance! Why is that?

To answer your response - Craig McGlaughlin has nothing to do with any of this. The OP doesn't mention "touching" - it mentions "drunkenly molesting". Yes, he was tried in a Military Court! He was tried in a similar instance to a court of Law! You are right in that someone has to lose - in this case it is the many servicemen and women who may have "accidentally touched" or committed worse and have been found guilty and charged and processed accordingly - many very harshly. This man has actually won - he keeps his pension when he retires at the current rank, he will be allowed to retire gracefully, the fact that any further promotion will be put back a few years is neither here nor there, and he got a token small fine. He was let off because he MAY retire on mental grounds later on (What has that to do with it - May Or AY NOT) You mention the incident of ADFA and the broadcasting of sexual intercourse - look at what they got! This bloke gets off scot free. Why are you defending him?

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Belgarion

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #8 - May 8^th, 2021 at 12:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 12:47pm:

ADFA is a seperate instition to Duntroon, Cods. All you are showing is you lack of knowledge and understanding of Australian military matters. Vic, please understand that Cods is talking from a position of ignorance and needs guidance, not admonishment. This fellow leaves a rather lot of distaste but he isn't alone in what he has done. I find it interesting that he was caught by the catch-all charge of "prejudicial to good order and discipline," rather than anything more strenuous. Cods, such a charge is habitually brought to make sure the charged person will be found guilty, no matter what the outcome of the other charges are. It is usually tacked on the end of the charge sheet. It would appear he is more unpopular than a pork chop at a bar mitzvah barbecue if that was thrown in to make sure he was found guilty. Roll Eyes

That is interesting. Begs the question was the prosecution so uncertain of their case that they felt that other charges would not stick so they had to resort to 'The Captains Cloak'?

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Vic

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #9 - May 8^th, 2021 at 1:15pm

Belgarion wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 12:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 12:47pm:

ADFA is a seperate instition to Duntroon, Cods. All you are showing is you lack of knowledge and understanding of Australian military matters. Vic, please understand that Cods is talking from a position of ignorance and needs guidance, not admonishment. This fellow leaves a rather lot of distaste but he isn't alone in what he has done. I find it interesting that he was caught by the catch-all charge of "prejudicial to good order and discipline," rather than anything more strenuous. Cods, such a charge is habitually brought to make sure the charged person will be found guilty, no matter what the outcome of the other charges are. It is usually tacked on the end of the charge sheet. It would appear he is more unpopular than a pork chop at a bar mitzvah barbecue if that was thrown in to make sure he was found guilty. Roll Eyes

That is interesting. Begs the question was the prosecution so uncertain of their case that they felt that other charges would not stick so they had to resort to 'The Captains Cloak'?

Indeed, that charge has been around for centuries it seems and has appeared on many charge sheets for Sailors I have had the "pleasure" of defending at the table. In this case however, the punishment does not appear to fit the crime if you can believe what has been written in the papers. A lot of horse trading appears to have been done to water down what is described as "Drunken Groping" in a public place, most probably witnessed by others to "Conduct Unbecoming". I am sure many who defend at the table will be looking at this outcome to see what legal precedence it sets for the future. As a constant defender of Sailors at the table for many years - if I were still in the system, this one would be high on my reference list from now on when similar matters occurred.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #10 - May 8^th, 2021 at 2:15pm

It makes for interesting reading of the case. Normally such charges don't appear as far as I am aware on most senior officers' cases. They are considered "above" such behavior that they are necessary. As I said, it points to his unpopularity. The prosecution were trying to make something stick in order to get rid of him. More than likely there were other factors which we will never known about.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112139 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Waiting For Angus Reply #11 - May 8^th, 2021 at 2:34pm What he did wasn't that bad. They should let him off with a caution.
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 44502	Re: Waiting For Angus Reply #12 - May 8^th, 2021 at 4:38pm Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 2:34pm: What he did wasn't that bad. They should let him off with a caution. No, what he did was as bad as if an OR had done the same thing. ORs are dealt more harshly than he was. Was you leniency because of his rank or his circumstance, Bobby?
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Bobby.

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #13 - May 8^th, 2021 at 5:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 4:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

What he did wasn't that bad.

They should let him off with a caution.

No, what he did was as bad as if an OR had done the same thing. ORs are dealt more harshly than he was. Was you leniency because of his rank or his circumstance, Bobby? Roll Eyes

It was just a few people having beers together and
he touched her shoulder and her thigh -
it's not as though he raped her.

I think it's all going too far.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Waiting For Angus
Reply #14 - May 8^th, 2021 at 5:22pm

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 5:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 4:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

What he did wasn't that bad.

They should let him off with a caution.

No, what he did was as bad as if an OR had done the same thing. ORs are dealt more harshly than he was. Were you lenient because of his rank or his circumstance, Bobby? Roll Eyes

It was just a few people having beers together and
he touched her shoulder and her thigh -
it's not as though he raped her.

I think it's all going too far.

And that is why you will never serve in the military, Bobby. Roll Eyes

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