Australian Politics Forum - About ‘some’ planes...

Sophia

Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9760

About ‘some’ planes...
Apr 7^th, 2021 at 11:38am

I watched this on report a few days ago, about a cover up with a known fatal flaw with the Boeing 737 Max.
And....it’s coming to Australia as Virgin have bought a few!

Type in search....Documentary of it ... Under investigation with Liz Hayes. (For some reason the link won’t come up if I copy and paste on here)
As a cautionary, i won’t go on this plane after revelations.
Don’t trust it.

(Putting up link and hope it works)

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/april-5-under-investigation-boeing-737-max-a...

Back to top

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.

Milton Friedman

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 120691
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #1 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 11:43am

The 737 MAX disaster is without a doubt the greatest corporate catastrophe and cover-up in aviation history.

When two Boeing 737 MAX planes crashed and killed 346 people, the world's biggest aircraft manufacturer was brought to its knees.

No individuals will stand trial.

For a company worth $150 billion, the penalty Boeing has negotiated seems paltry.

Back to top

IP Logged

Carl D

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 11128
Rivervale, Perth
Gender: male

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #2 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 11:51am

Don't worry, Lols.

Boeing has spent the past 2 years fixing the flaws in the 737 MAX. I've read that it will probably be the safest plane in the sky when it goes back into service.

I'm not planning on flying anywhere in the foreseeable future but, if I were, I'd be inclined to give this aircraft a miss for at least a year or two just to make sure it really is safe.

Back to top

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **

IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #3 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:15pm

I'd go on the plane. I watched the doco and it wasn't so much that the plane was unsafe.

Yes they had to redesign for the bigger engines and move the wings forward, which then increased tendency to fly nose up and stall. Which then necessitated the introduction of the computer system to counteract it (which was the flaw)

The issue was that Boeing knew it could do this, and yet for cost reasons didn't tell the airlines and didn't allow for training of pilots in the circumstance

Back to top

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #4 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:18pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Grounding_and_recertificationThe MCAS system was deemed necessary by Boeing to meet its internal objective of minimizing training requirements for pilots already qualified on the 737NG. MCAS was to automatically mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry due to the engines being located further forward and higher than on previous 737 models.[107] During a reassessment of the aircraft in February 2020, both FAA and EASA determined that the stability and stall characteristics of the plane would have been acceptable with or without MCAS.[108]

In other words, what they are saying is the actual planes flying characteristics aren't unsafe. It was the MCAS system that was the problem

Back to top

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

IP Logged

Sophia

Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9760

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #5 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:01pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:18pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Grounding_and_recertificationThe MCAS system was deemed necessary by Boeing to meet its internal objective of minimizing training requirements for pilots already qualified on the 737NG. MCAS was to automatically mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry due to the engines being located further forward and higher than on previous 737 models.[107] During a reassessment of the aircraft in February 2020, both FAA and EASA determined that the stability and stall characteristics of the plane would have been acceptable with or without MCAS.[108]

In other words, what they are saying is the actual planes flying characteristics aren't unsafe. It was the MCAS system that was the problem

Doesn’t matter what technicality it was at fault.... point is... they knew and now all those deaths and grieving families .... it breaks my heart.
I’m grossly disappointed that they knew and allowed it to go on until it became an obvious fatality.

My trust is not very high .... I don’t blame the victims families feeling that way.

Perhaps it may now be a very scrutinised plane and perhaps very safe.... but the proof will always be in the pudding.... in a certain space of time.... to prove itself worthy of gaining confidence and trust.

Back to top

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.

Milton Friedman

IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #6 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:12pm

Sophia wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:01pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:18pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Grounding_and_recertificationThe MCAS system was deemed necessary by Boeing to meet its internal objective of minimizing training requirements for pilots already qualified on the 737NG. MCAS was to automatically mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry due to the engines being located further forward and higher than on previous 737 models.[107] During a reassessment of the aircraft in February 2020, both FAA and EASA determined that the stability and stall characteristics of the plane would have been acceptable with or without MCAS.[108]

In other words, what they are saying is the actual planes flying characteristics aren't unsafe. It was the MCAS system that was the problem

Doesn’t matter what technicality it was at fault.... point is... they knew and now all those deaths and grieving families .... it breaks my heart.
I’m grossly disappointed that they knew and allowed it to go on until it became an obvious fatality.

My trust is not very high .... I don’t blame the victims families feeling that way.

Perhaps it may now be a very scrutinised plane and perhaps very safe.... but the proof will always be in the pudding.... in a certain space of time.... to prove itself worthy of gaining confidence and trust.

Again though you've just proved my point. TYhe issue wasn't the plane, it was the company.

Back to top

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

IP Logged

Sophia

Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9760

Re: About ‘some’ planes...
Reply #7 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:36pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:12pm:

Sophia wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:01pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:18pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Grounding_and_recertificationThe MCAS system was deemed necessary by Boeing to meet its internal objective of minimizing training requirements for pilots already qualified on the 737NG. MCAS was to automatically mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry due to the engines being located further forward and higher than on previous 737 models.[107] During a reassessment of the aircraft in February 2020, both FAA and EASA determined that the stability and stall characteristics of the plane would have been acceptable with or without MCAS.[108]

In other words, what they are saying is the actual planes flying characteristics aren't unsafe. It was the MCAS system that was the problem

Doesn’t matter what technicality it was at fault.... point is... they knew and now all those deaths and grieving families .... it breaks my heart.
I’m grossly disappointed that they knew and allowed it to go on until it became an obvious fatality.

My trust is not very high .... I don’t blame the victims families feeling that way.

Perhaps it may now be a very scrutinised plane and perhaps very safe.... but the proof will always be in the pudding.... in a certain space of time.... to prove itself worthy of gaining confidence and trust.

Again though you've just proved my point. TYhe issue wasn't the plane, it was the company.

I proved your point?
There is no “one” point...there is more than one point/factor involved.
It takes a succession of issues to create catastrophe.

Of course faults known and human decision factor in this.

What killed all those people?
A faulty plane or a cover up... or... both?
Chicken/egg situation?

Goes back to you have proved my point... about trust/confidence issues .... since the company covered up... does a leopard change its spots?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:49pm by Sophia »

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.

Milton Friedman

IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: About ‘some’ planes... Reply #8 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 3:06pm Cover up. Wasn't a faulty plane. Fundamentally there was nothing wrong with it.
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: About ‘some’ planes... Reply #9 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 3:06pm But also given your behaviour in regards to science in other areas, not sure why I trust you herew
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged