Australian Politics Forum - No by elections

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72349 Gender:	Re: No by elections Reply #30 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 6:07pm Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 6:03pm: An equation of margin vs time to election. bullshit. With just about every election you have 'safe seats' that are lost by the govt. of the day. What would you formula do for those seats? Only the people can decide who will replace a retiring MP, not the govt of the day.
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Neferti

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Re: No by elections
Reply #31 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 6:58pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:46pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:41pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:35pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

A safe seat is the point!

Example. There's safe Greens seat and the member karks it a year before the election, just plonk the next lesbian, homo, tranny, abo Grin

But Bobby doesn't vote Green, why should he get the seat?

How would you know how Bobby votes?

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John Smith

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Re: No by elections
Reply #32 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:13pm

Neferti wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 6:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:46pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:41pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:35pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

A safe seat is the point!

Example. There's safe Greens seat and the member karks it a year before the election, just plonk the next lesbian, homo, tranny, abo Grin

But Bobby doesn't vote Green, why should he get the seat?

How would you know how Bobby votes?

Thats none of your business.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Jest

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Re: No by elections
Reply #33 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:14pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 2:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 1:38pm:

Apparently the libs want to do away with by elections. Instead, if an MP resigns or is sacked, they want the party to nominate his replacement. So when an MP gets sacked for corruption, his electorate don't get to decide who will represent them .. scomo will.

What is it with the libs trying to do away with democracy? If scomo doesn't go soon he'll try to turn this country into a fascist state.

It's what we've come to expect from the corrupt Libs/LNP.

"The report suggests looking at the viability of replacing by-elections with alternative methods of selecting the new MP, and declaring a seat “vacant when the sitting MP resigns from or leaves the party under which they were elected”.

"In his forward to the report, Queensland Liberal National Party senator James McGrath says replacing compulsory preferential voting with optional preferential would maximise voter choice."

Parliamentary electoral committee floats bigger parliament, longer terms and no byelections

Im all for optional preferential voting and am very surprised to see that its being proposed by someone from one of the major parties. Last time it was seriously debated Bob Hawke killed it because he immediately saw it for the danger it is to the party duopoly. Currently if we want to cast a valid vote in the H of R we MUST ultimately vote for either Labour or the LNP (in 99% of cases). Appearance counts for a lot, so although most people understand how the preference system works, when they're told after each election that the Govt won 51% of the 2 party preferred vote, they still process that in their minds as the Govt has majority support when in truth its support is often as low as 30%. With optional preferential voting we will be able to cast a valid vote without being forced to vote for one of the 2 major parties. Consequently not only will their grip on power be threatened we will also begin to see what a lie it is to characterise this system as democracy.

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« Last Edit: Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:45pm by Jest »

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Jest

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Re: No by elections
Reply #34 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:38pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

Our system already waters down the value of our vote at every opportunity and you want to water it down even more. The 2 political parties dont own this political system. Its supposed to belong to us. We dont make decisions about anything in this so called democracy and now you even want to reduce our power to choose who "represents" us. What about the people who didnt vote for the party but for the candidate. Why do they have to have a party person forced on them as their representative.

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« Last Edit: Dec 13^th, 2020 at 8:36pm by Jest »

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Belgarion

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Re: No by elections
Reply #35 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:38pm

Jest wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 2:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 1:38pm:

Apparently the libs want to do away with by elections. Instead, if an MP resigns or is sacked, they want the party to nominate his replacement. So when an MP gets sacked for corruption, his electorate don't get to decide who will represent them .. scomo will.

What is it with the libs trying to do away with democracy? If scomo doesn't go soon he'll try to turn this country into a fascist state.

It's what we've come to expect from the corrupt Libs/LNP.

"The report suggests looking at the viability of replacing by-elections with alternative methods of selecting the new MP, and declaring a seat “vacant when the sitting MP resigns from or leaves the party under which they were elected”.

"In his forward to the report, Queensland Liberal National Party senator James McGrath says replacing compulsory preferential voting with optional preferential would maximise voter choice."

Parliamentary electoral committee floats bigger parliament, longer terms and no byelections

Im all for optional preferential voting and am very surprised to see that its being proposed by someone from one of the major parties. Last time it was seriously debated Bob Hawke killed it because he immediately saw it for the danger it is to the party duopoly. Currently if we want to cast a valid vote in the H of R we MUST ultimately vote for either Labour or the LNP (in 99% of cases). Appearance counts for a lot, so although most people understand how the preference system works, when they're told after each election that the Govt won 51% of the 2 party preferred vote, they still process that in their minds as the Govt has majority support when in truth its support is often as low as 30%. With optional preferential voting we will be able to cast a valid vote without being forced to vote for one of the 2 major parties. Consequently not only will their grip on power be broken we will also begin to see what a lie it is to characterise this system as democracy.

I'm not a fan of getting rid of preferential voting altogether, but reform is a good idea. A start would be to ban 'how to vote' cards and hopefully each voter will allocate preferences as they wish, not how the party wishes.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72349 Gender:	Re: No by elections Reply #36 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:55pm Belgarion wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:38pm: A start would be to ban 'how to vote' cards and hopefully each voter will allocate preferences as they wis i agree with that
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131671 Gender:	Re: No by elections Reply #37 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 8:00pm John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:55pm: Belgarion wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:38pm: A start would be to ban 'how to vote' cards and hopefully each voter will allocate preferences as they wis i agree with that 100% agree. How-to-vote cards should be banned.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80400 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: No by elections Reply #38 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 8:19pm Never trust any move by any government....... their interest is only in themselves and cementing their own position.... starts from being paid far too much for their paltry real work.
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Jest

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Re: No by elections
Reply #39 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 9:02pm

Belgarion wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:38pm:

Jest wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 7:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 2:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 1:38pm:

Apparently the libs want to do away with by elections. Instead, if an MP resigns or is sacked, they want the party to nominate his replacement. So when an MP gets sacked for corruption, his electorate don't get to decide who will represent them .. scomo will.

What is it with the libs trying to do away with democracy? If scomo doesn't go soon he'll try to turn this country into a fascist state.

It's what we've come to expect from the corrupt Libs/LNP.

"The report suggests looking at the viability of replacing by-elections with alternative methods of selecting the new MP, and declaring a seat “vacant when the sitting MP resigns from or leaves the party under which they were elected”.

"In his forward to the report, Queensland Liberal National Party senator James McGrath says replacing compulsory preferential voting with optional preferential would maximise voter choice."

Parliamentary electoral committee floats bigger parliament, longer terms and no byelections

Im all for optional preferential voting and am very surprised to see that its being proposed by someone from one of the major parties. Last time it was seriously debated Bob Hawke killed it because he immediately saw it for the danger it is to the party duopoly. Currently if we want to cast a valid vote in the H of R we MUST ultimately vote for either Labour or the LNP (in 99% of cases). Appearance counts for a lot, so although most people understand how the preference system works, when they're told after each election that the Govt won 51% of the 2 party preferred vote, they still process that in their minds as the Govt has majority support when in truth its support is often as low as 30%. With optional preferential voting we will be able to cast a valid vote without being forced to vote for one of the 2 major parties. Consequently not only will their grip on power be broken we will also begin to see what a lie it is to characterise this system as democracy.

I'm not a fan of getting rid of preferential voting altogether, but reform is a good idea. A start would be to ban 'how to vote' cards and hopefully each voter will allocate preferences as they wish, not how the party wishes.

But no one is proposing to get rid of preferential voting. Instead they're saying lets give people the option to choose whether to cast a preference vote or not. And when you think of it this is more consistent with your reason for banning How To Vote Cards because it leans in favour of giving maximum effect to what the voter wishes rather than what the party or the system wants.

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Bam

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Re: No by elections
Reply #40 - Dec 13^th, 2020 at 10:16pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

Another foolish person who forgot that independent MPs exist.

Just hold a by-election. Why fix it if it isn't broken?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Mix_Master

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Re: No by elections
Reply #41 - Dec 14^th, 2020 at 1:52pm

It might pay for people to actually read ALL of the proposals, to get an idea of what they represent in totality.

It isn't "just" about By Elections.

They (the LNP) want voting to be voluntary, because they think that - just as in the U.S - voluntary voting will favour them.

We normally vote in advance, to avoid large crowds on the Saturday.

The LNP now want to "force" people to provide a valid "excuse" as to why they should exercise their mandatory Democratic right to vote early. Since when is it any of their business?

Ah, so they can "force" more people to wait in long lines on a Saturday. Couple that with voluntary voting and "voila"...smaller turnouts.

And so on it goes.

I wonder if (hopefully "when") the LNP is next removed from Office, will we see a raft of spurious legal actions, designed to retain power? Maybe an "election defence" fund?

"Just 'cos it works in the U.S..."

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Electoral_Matters...

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Redmond Neck

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ACT
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Re: No by elections
Reply #42 - Dec 14^th, 2020 at 1:57pm

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 10:16pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

Another foolish person who forgot that independent MPs exist.

Just hold a by-election. Why fix it if it isn't broken?

And what is a safe seat?

Most HOR election seats are won by one party, but the other main party usually runs second.

So who would be appointed in that case?

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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!

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cods

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Re: No by elections
Reply #43 - Dec 14^th, 2020 at 2:17pm

Mix_Master wrote on Dec 14^th, 2020 at 1:52pm:

It might pay for people to actually read ALL of the proposals, to get an idea of what they represent in totality.

It isn't "just" about By Elections.

They (the LNP) want voting to be voluntary, because they think that - just as in the U.S - voluntary voting will favour them.

We normally vote in advance, to avoid large crowds on the Saturday.

The LNP now want to "force" people to provide a valid "excuse" as to why they should exercise their mandatory Democratic right to vote early. Since when is it any of their business?

Ah, so they can "force" more people to wait in long lines on a Saturday. Couple that with voluntary voting and "voila"...smaller turnouts.

And so on it goes.

I wonder if (hopefully "when") the LNP is next removed from Office, will we see a raft of spurious legal actions, designed to retain power? Maybe an "election defence" fund?

"Just 'cos it works in the U.S..."

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Electoral_Matters...

I personally think it means MODERNISING bring it into to 21st century....why are socialists always looking for sinister reasons always favouring the other side of course... Roll Eyes

its so annoying it takes away the real reason for debate on a topic like this....

I dont know who makes up the committees....but they have been chosen to make a list of things that should make life a little less cumbersome ..just a list mate nothing else....it isnt set in concrete

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cods

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Re: No by elections
Reply #44 - Dec 14^th, 2020 at 2:19pm

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 14^th, 2020 at 1:57pm:

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 10:16pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 13^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

So they're exploring ways to avoid by-elections.

If they could come up with a formula like when it's a safe seat and how much time before the next election, maybe be a good idea.

Another foolish person who forgot that independent MPs exist.

Just hold a by-election. Why fix it if it isn't broken?

And what is a safe seat?

Most HOR election seats are won by one party, but the other main party usually runs second.

So who would be appointed in that case?

in the past I am sure I have seen where the second runner up is given the task......I think it happened in WA or SA

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