Australian Politics Forum - "Fantasy and Failure"

Mix_Master

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"Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Nov 30^th, 2020 at 7:56am

"With his denial of the outcome, Trump has endangered America’s democracy and duped supporters into believing, perhaps permanently, that Biden was elected illegitimately."

More troubling to Raffensperger were the many threats he and his wife, Tricia, have received over the past few weeks - and a break-in at another family member's home. All of it has prompted him to accept a state security detail.

"If Republicans don't start condemning this stuff, then I think they're really complicit in it," he said. "It's time to stand up and be counted. Are you going to stand for righteousness? Are you going to stand for integrity? Or are you going to stand for the wild mob? You wanted to condemn the wild mob when it's on the left side. What are you going to do when it's on our side?"

Don't worry, mate, they still condemn "the left", and conveniently forget their own myriad failings... Roll Eyes

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/fantasy-and-failure-inside-trump-s...

In a word...Sad!

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« Last Edit: Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:11am by Mix_Master »

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 55130 Gender:	Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script. Reply #1 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:11am That's what they've been saying of Trump since he got in. Why's it good for one, but not the other?? Truly sad indeed. Hillary: "It was Rigged!" Pelosi: "It was Rigged!" Harris: "We Rigged it!"
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

aquascoot

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #2 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:20am

Dear Mr mixmaster

It is sad

The west is doing this to themselves
Both the left and the right are totally polarising

That's because the left and the right had become addicted to outrage
Which is about the most addictive emotional state a human can feel

And Twitter Facebook Google CNN MSNBC the Washington post and the New York times
All increase their revenue by feeding the polarization

On Twitter and Facebook
Fights fake news and deepfakes are shared maximally
Because the artificial intelligence has worked out this is what keeps people on the platform

It's quite interesting if you look at Taiwan
The Taiwanese have trained their artificial intelligence and machine learning
To look at comments on social media
And share and promote items which create constructive
And pleasant commentary

This is the exact opposite of the West

I think that until the authorities gain control of these platforms
And start to incentivize pleasant and constructive civil discourse
Fantasy and failure will be the common experience

I wouldn't necessarily blame trump
The problem is way way way deeper than that

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89642 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script. Reply #3 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:24am "I think that until the authorities gain control of these platforms" ... They're all in bed with them..... why would they want to alter a mutually beneficial relationship?
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14569 Colorado Gender:	Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script. Reply #4 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:32am It's only a matter of time before the courts start sanctioning Trump's pettifog lawyers if this continues much longer.
Back to top	I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend IP Logged

Mix_Master Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 999 Gender:	Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script. Reply #5 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:32am Quote: I think that until the authorities gain control of these platforms A.k.a "Control the discourse, and the narrative..." And you believe that is a good thing? Why, pray tell? Perhaps you naively believe that Governments act in the interests of their people at all times?
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Jasin

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #6 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:33am

True. Two wrongs not making a right here.
Democrats now behaving like Republicans acting like Democrats acting like Republicans.
Both in the Wrong, thinking they are the 'only' ones who are in the Right.
For years we had to put up with the Peckerhead crying "Rigged, unfair, etc" against Trump winning and now we have to put up with "Fair's fair" against Trump now.

So where the Democrats get off calling Trump a whinger - even if he is only taking a legal avenue of exploration, while they have been such non-stop since Trump got in Power??? Since Hillary lost and went nuts with her interviews and biographhical books attacking Trump/Republicans. Pelosi and her crew crying foul because they lost an attempted attack from the inside against Trump and failed.

So I'm not surprised about the current circumstance.
Under the previous circumstances by the Democrats/Media/Left and their 'attacks' against Trump when he was in power.
I am open to Trump at least having a go himself, now that they are in power.

Fairs, fair - no?

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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aquascoot

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #7 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:41am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:24am:

"I think that until the authorities gain control of these platforms" ...

They're all in bed with them..... why would they want to alter a mutually beneficial relationship?

Grappler

There is some truth in what you say
But it is simply undeniable that the current social media platforms and mainstream media outlets
Earn extra revenue the more they amplify the polarization

Now that's a problem
I'm not sure how you regulate for that to be honest
And you are correct in two things goodsir

The social media platforms certainly have no intention of dialling down the outrage
And our political parties don't benefit from allowing a sensible centre position to emerge

I think you need to recognise their that other societies that do have this under control
And I would cite Japan South Korea and Taiwan as three suck societies
Are developing a more cohesive society
As we develop a more fragmented society

3 billion fake accounts on Facebook
2 billion fake accounts on Twitter

Ask yourself this

If you were China and Russia and wanted to take down Western democracies
How simple is it to just employ people to post hateful stuff 24/7

With in a year the technology will be so good
That you will literally be able to construct a video
Of
Say Joe biden
Chatting to people saying grab them by the p****
And no one will know whether it is fake or not
there will actually be no way of knowing fake news from genuine news
if we are not there already we are very very close

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Mix_Master

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #8 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:59am

Jasin wrote on Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:33am:

True. Two wrongs not making a right here.
Democrats now behaving like Republicans acting like Democrats acting like Republicans.
Both in the Wrong, thinking they are the 'only' ones who are in the Right.
For years we had to put up with the Peckerhead crying "Rigged, unfair, etc" against Trump winning and now we have to put up with "Fair's fair" against Trump now.

So where the Democrats get off calling Trump a whinger - even if he is only taking a legal avenue of exploration, while they have been such non-stop since Trump got in Power??? Since Hillary lost and went nuts with her interviews and biographhical books attacking Trump/Republicans. Pelosi and her crew crying foul because they lost an attempted attack from the inside against Trump and failed.

So I'm not surprised about the current circumstance.
Under the previous circumstances by the Democrats/Media/Left and their 'attacks' against Trump when he was in power.
I am open to Trump at least having a go himself, now that they are in power.

Fairs, fair - no?

From the article:

Then Trump invited the leaders of Michigan's Republican-controlled state Senate and House to meet him at the White House, apparently hoping to coax them to block certification of the results or perhaps even to ignore Biden's popular-vote win and seat Trump electors if the state's canvassing board deadlocked. Such a move was on shaky legal ground, but that didn't stop Trump from trying.

Republican and Democratic leaders, including current and former governors and members of Congress, immediately launched a full-court press to urge the legislative leaders to resist Trump's entreaties. The non-partisan Voter Protection Program was so worried that it commissioned a poll to find out how Michiganders felt about his intervention. The survey found that a bipartisan majority did not like Trump intervening and believed that Biden won the state.

House Speaker Lee Chatfield and Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey said they accepted the invitation as a courtesy and issued a joint statement immediately after the meeting: "We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan."

A person familiar with their thinking said they felt they could not decline the President's invitation – plus they saw an opportunity to deliver to Trump "a flavour of the truth and what he wasn't hearing in his own echo chamber," as well as to make a pitch for coronavirus relief for their state.

There was never a moment when the lawmakers contemplated stepping in on Trump's behalf, because Michigan law does not allow it, this person said. Before the trip, lawyers for the lawmakers told their colleagues in the legislature that there was nothing feasible in what Trump was trying to do, and that it was "absolute crazy talk" for the Michigan officials to contemplate defying the will of the voters, this person added.

Please refresh my memory. Did the Democrats attempt to "coerce" State Governors to "defy the will of the people" in 2016?

Also, and once again, I only see you decrying the "faults" of the Left, and when it comes to Trump's antics note that "Fair's fair".

Do you agree with his (Trump's)actions in attempting to coerce State Governors to defy the will of their people. If so, why? If not, why not?

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Karnal

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #9 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:02am

Quote:

With in a year the technology will be so good
That you will literally be able to construct a video
Of
Say Joe biden
Chatting to people saying grab them by the p****
And no one will know whether it is fake or not
there will actually be no way of knowing fake news from genuine news
if we are not there already

I know, right? Sleepy Joe wouldn't even have to talk it down by calling it locker room talk or apologise for any offence given.

Putin can just release the tape and it's all over red rover, no?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #10 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:09am

The Failed Businessman: "Wisconsin: I demand a recount!".

Wisconsin: "Okay, but you'll have to pay $3,000,000 up front".

The Failed Businessman: "It's worth it".

Wisconsin: "After the manual recount, we've found another 300 votes for President-elect Joe Biden. We have declared Mr Biden the winner".

The Failed Businessman: "D'oh!".

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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aquascoot

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #11 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:14am

Karnal wrote on Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:02am:

Quote:

With in a year the technology will be so good
That you will literally be able to construct a video
Of
Say Joe biden
Chatting to people saying grab them by the p****
And no one will know whether it is fake or not
there will actually be no way of knowing fake news from genuine news
if we are not there already

I know, right? Sleepy Joe wouldn't even have to talk it down by calling it locker room talk or apologise for any offence given.

Putin can just release the tape and it's all over red rover, no?

But can you not see this is going to become a massive problem karnal.

When the original grab them by the p**** tape came out
Trump had to own up to it

If that tape was to come out in 12 months time
Trump could say that this was a computer generated and manipulated tape
Using artificial intelligence to generate his face and his words
And that he never said such a thing

And there would really be no way of knowing
That's where we're headed

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Mix_Master

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #12 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:25am

Jasin wrote on Nov 30^th, 2020 at 8:33am:

True. Two wrongs not making a right here.
Democrats now behaving like Republicans acting like Democrats acting like Republicans.
Both in the Wrong, thinking they are the 'only' ones who are in the Right.
For years we had to put up with the Peckerhead crying "Rigged, unfair, etc" against Trump winning and now we have to put up with "Fair's fair" against Trump now.

So where the Democrats get off calling Trump a whinger - even if he is only taking a legal avenue of exploration, while they have been such non-stop since Trump got in Power??? Since Hillary lost and went nuts with her interviews and biographhical books attacking Trump/Republicans. Pelosi and her crew crying foul because they lost an attempted attack from the inside against Trump and failed.

So I'm not surprised about the current circumstance.
Under the previous circumstances by the Democrats/Media/Left and their 'attacks' against Trump when he was in power.
I am open to Trump at least having a go himself, now that they are in power.

Fairs, fair - no?

May I also ask you to directly compare the behaviour of Trump after this election, and Clinton's after the 2016 election, in terms of concessions etc.?

Quote:

As the results came in on election night, November 8, 2016, Clinton lost in multiple states that she had been predicted to win. In the early morning hours of November 9, media sources declared Trump the winner of the presidency.[263] Clinton lost the electoral vote while winning the popular vote, in what the New York Times called a "surprise outcome" after polls leading up to election day had predicted a Clinton victory.[264][265] She congratulated Trump on the win in the early morning hours of November 9, 2016, and delivered her public concession speech at 11:50 AM ET, November 9, 2016

Now, maths isn't my strong suit, but that looks very much like Clinton conceded the election on the first day after it was held.

Does it look that way to you, too? Or am I missing something there?

I'm typing this on the 30th of November (granted, still the 29th in the U.S).

Has Trump conceded the election as yet?

Fairs fair, right?

But only when it suits Republicans, apparently. Roll Eyes

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Mix_Master

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #13 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 9:52am

In for a penny, in for a pound (as the saying goes).

I mean, "fairs fair", right?

Quote:

The week-old lawsuit, led by a Republican representative for Pennsylvania, Mike Kelly, had challenged the state's mail-in voting law as unconstitutional.

[highlight]As a remedy, Kelly and the other Republican plaintiffs had sought to either throw out the 2.5 million mail-in ballots submitted under the law — most of them by Democrats — or to wipe out the election results and direct the state's Republican-controlled legislature to pick Pennsylvania's presidential electors

Once again, the Republicans didn't like the result, so they want to actively undermine the democratic will of the people, in order to change it.

And we have republican apologists in here not only defending this behaviour, but actively cheering for it.

"No shame", indeed... Roll Eyes

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/pennsylvania-high-court-throws-out...

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Mix_Master

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Re: "Fantasy and Failure" - an election post-script.
Reply #14 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 11:37am

Here's another one for the apologists and naysayers...

Quote:

In his first television interview since the November 3 election, President Donald Trump suggested on Sunday that he will never accept his loss to Democrat Joe Biden and continued to fling baseless accusations of election fraud.

There's a saying about "being magnanimous in victory, and gracious in defeat."

Tell me...which one of these is Donald Trump?

Quote:

"My mind will not change in six months." "There was tremendous cheating here."

Quote:

Trump said he is "going to use 125 per cent of my energy" to continue to contest the results through the courts...

(Hmmm...maths not a strong suit there either, apparently. Roll Eyes

)

And there's more...

Quote:

Trump also renewed his criticism of Republican officials in the state, including Governor Brian Kemp and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, for not supporting his baseless fraud claims.

Again, they obeyed the law, and refused to help the Trump campaign reject the will of the people. And he's denigrating them for having done the right thing! Angry

Where does this bloke get off carrying on like this?

Anyone with a reasoned response?

Hell, I'd even settle for one of the resident whack jobs' responses at this point...Rich? The Mechanic? Are you guys out there?

We need you!

For the laughs, you understand

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