Australian Politics Forum - Unions create unemployment

Pedro Curevo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 500 Nth Coast NSW Gender:	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #270 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:11am How about someone explains why all this wage stagnation, increasing poverty with homelessness and the young unable to afford to purchase a house is the from unions creating unemployment and why it isn't neo liberal trickle down economics.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53050
At my desk.

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #271 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am

John Smith wrote on Nov 6^th, 2021 at 5:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 6^th, 2021 at 3:24pm:

Is it getting hard to keep track of all the BS you spin John?

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:44am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 5:39pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:31am:

What if the unions somehow increased the cost of hiring people? Could that affect the number of people they hire?

depends on whether you think businesses hire people to do work that needs doing

or whether you think business will hire more people then they need just because they're on a discounted rate

Would you like to try answering the question John? Or do you actually think the answer depends on what I think?

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 11:53am:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:44am:

Would you like to try answering the question John?

I did answer the question fd .... and yes, I do think the answer you want depends on what you think

Now, I answered your question, how about you let me know which of the two scenarios I put up do you agree with the most?

why are the two answers mutually exclusive FD?

there is no bs ...the answer you want depends on what you think. If I give you an answer that doesn't gel with that, you cry about the answer not being answered or make some dumb comment and then repeat the question waiting for someone to give an answer that gels with what you think. Having said that, what you think is irrelevant., Want you want means jack sh1t to my answer.

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 33345
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #272 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:59am

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 6^th, 2021 at 5:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 6^th, 2021 at 3:24pm:

Is it getting hard to keep track of all the BS you spin John?

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:44am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 5:39pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:31am:

What if the unions somehow increased the cost of hiring people? Could that affect the number of people they hire?

depends on whether you think businesses hire people to do work that needs doing

or whether you think business will hire more people then they need just because they're on a discounted rate

Would you like to try answering the question John? Or do you actually think the answer depends on what I think?

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 11:53am:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:44am:

Would you like to try answering the question John?

I did answer the question fd .... and yes, I do think the answer you want depends on what you think

Now, I answered your question, how about you let me know which of the two scenarios I put up do you agree with the most?

why are the two answers mutually exclusive FD?

there is no bs ...the answer you want depends on what you think. If I give you an answer that doesn't gel with that, you cry about the answer not being answered or make some dumb comment and then repeat the question waiting for someone to give an answer that gels with what you think. Having said that, what you think is irrelevant., Want you want means jack sh1t to my answer.

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

And your level of understanding of economics is obviously flawed.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53050 At my desk.	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #273 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:00am OK Gnads, give us an economics lesson. What happens to the number of jobs that businesses offer when you make it more expensive for them to hire people?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 33345
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #274 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:14am

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:00am:

OK Gnads, give us an economics lesson. What happens to the number of jobs that businesses offer when you make it more expensive for them to hire people?

The offer of jobs should be based on their business model. Increases in wages should be a real consideration due to the increases to the cost of living.

No doubt they expect to be able increase their prices due to rising costs of resources.

Blaming wages and Unions for unemployment is a cop out.

It has been shown to you the reductions in wages has not created any more employment.

You seem to be fixated with a Master/Serf mentality.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53050
At my desk.

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #275 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:29am

Quote:

It has been shown to you the reductions in wages has not created any more employment.

No it hasn't. I have seen the claim made, based on the sort of analysis you might expect from a primary school student.

What is your own opinion Gnads? If unions make it more expensive for businesses to employ people, will those businesses offer more or fewer jobs than if the unions had not intervened? This isn't a trick question.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61671
Here
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #276 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:41am

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:29am:

Quote:

It has been shown to you the reductions in wages has not created any more employment.

No it hasn't. I have seen the claim made, based on the sort of analysis you might expect from a primary school student.

What is your own opinion Gnads? If unions make it more expensive for businesses to employ people, will those businesses offer more or fewer jobs than if the unions had not intervened? This isn't a trick question.

No trick - Just irrelevant. Business employ the number of people that they need to maximise their profits, employment is seldom a charity product excluding the rampant nepotism and corruption involved.

As stagnant wages show there is no case for saying that unions are driving wages up as it isn't happening. It is just a strawman argument.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61671
Here
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #277 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:45am

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:29am:

Quote:

It has been shown to you the reductions in wages has not created any more employment.

No it hasn't. I have seen the claim made, based on the sort of analysis you might expect from a primary school student.

What is your own opinion Gnads? If unions make it more expensive for businesses to employ people, will those businesses offer more or fewer jobs than if the unions had not intervened? This isn't a trick question.

I think you will find that it has indeed been been factually shown that the exercise of forcing down take home pay in the event of penalty rates being reduced in the relevant industries resulted in people walking away from the industries in question and employment rates going down not up as a result.

Employers argued in front of Fair Work Commissioners that reducing penalty rates would increase employment but after the event admitted that this was a lie, there was never a genuine case to say that this was correct. It was all based on the type of theoretical dribble that you are using.

You know the annual employer statements made that have not come true at any time in the last 5 decades maybe double that.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53050
At my desk.

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #278 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 10:52am

Quote:

It was all based on the type of theoretical dribble that you are using.

Is that what unions thinks about microeconomics?

You still seem reluctant to have an opinion of your own Gnads. If unions make it more expensive for businesses to employ people, will those businesses offer more or fewer jobs than if the unions had not intervened? This isn't a trick question.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #279 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 3:16pm

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am:

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

ohh i know FD ... no one can match your genius as far as understanding economics goes. What else can explain your years of being unable to support your claim Grin

Newsflash for you FD .... you need to do a little more than tell us how great your understanding is and how flawed everyone else's is if you wish to be taken seriously.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53050
At my desk.

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #280 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:17pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am:

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

ohh i know FD ... no one can match your genius as far as understanding economics goes. What else can explain your years of being unable to support your claim Grin

Newsflash for you FD .... you need to do a little more than tell us how great your understanding is and how flawed everyone else's is if you wish to be taken seriously.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics? Would they also deny that the price of employing people influences the number of jobs on offer? Or would they tapdance?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #281 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:25pm

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am:

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

ohh i know FD ... no one can match your genius as far as understanding economics goes. What else can explain your years of being unable to support your claim Grin

Newsflash for you FD .... you need to do a little more than tell us how great your understanding is and how flawed everyone else's is if you wish to be taken seriously.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics? Would they also deny that the price of employing people influences the number of jobs on offer? Or would they tapdance?

does what I think about unions determine whether or not you prove your claim? Or do you plan on pretending that you saying it's so makes it so indefinitely?

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53050
At my desk.

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #282 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:32pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 9:56am:

I am waiting for an answer that makes sense. So far all you have given me is meaningless gibberish.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics?

ohh i know FD ... no one can match your genius as far as understanding economics goes. What else can explain your years of being unable to support your claim Grin

Newsflash for you FD .... you need to do a little more than tell us how great your understanding is and how flawed everyone else's is if you wish to be taken seriously.

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics? Would they also deny that the price of employing people influences the number of jobs on offer? Or would they tapdance?

does what I think about unions determine whether or not you prove your claim? Or do you plan on pretending that you saying it's so makes it so indefinitely?

It is possible that if you could manage to make sense, then there would be someone who disagrees with me on this who makes sense. It would be a good start, don't you think?

Do you think the unions share your level of understanding of economics? Would they also deny that the price of employing people influences the number of jobs on offer? Or would they tapdance like you?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #283 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:33pm freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:32pm: It is possible that if you could manage to make sense, lets put it this way, you have far more possibility that I make sense then we ever have of you ever offering up evidence to prove to your claims.
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #284 - Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:36pm

freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2021 at 7:32pm:

It would be a good start, don't you think?

good start? this started with you telling us that unions cost jobs. A good start would have been you providing evidence of such a claim but so far you have failed at every turn so it's a bit late for a good start.

The best you can hope for now is a good ending by finally proving your claim. Until then, I'm happy to call you out on our stupidity for as long as you like.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged