Australian Politics Forum - Unions create unemployment

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53052 At my desk.	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #195 - Oct 30^th, 2021 at 6:05pm The farmers must be happy with Aldi subsidising their product.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #196 - Oct 30^th, 2021 at 6:21pm freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 6:05pm: The farmers must be happy with Aldi subsidising their product. Banana benders in Western Australia... Not so much.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #197 - Oct 30^th, 2021 at 7:21pm freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 3:12pm: The answer was no. you don't understand English do you? It wasn't a yes or no type of question
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Frank

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #198 - Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:32pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 5:39pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:31am:

What if the unions somehow increased the cost of hiring people? Could that affect the number of people they hire?

depends on whether you think businesses hire people to do work that needs doing

or whether you think business will hire more people then they need just because they're on a discounted rate

For skilled labour the unions are irrelevant, except in higher education and the public service which are captured sectors. Companies will pay for skills because they have to compete for them.

With unskilled or semi-skilled labour in abundant supply - immigration of thousands of drongos - the union becomes important to the drongos IN JOBs against the drongos being imported because the unskilled drongos have to compete for the limited and (diminishing) number of jobs. yet we are importing third world petrol station attendants on 'skilled visas' (has anyone seen a non-Indian in a petrol station, 7-11, supermarket trolley collection, train station, government office etc job, in the last 15 years???)

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #199 - Oct 30^th, 2021 at 9:46pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 7:21pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

The answer was no.

you don't understand English do you? It wasn't a yes or no type of question Roll Eyes

Perhaps you are right.

Can you explain how what I think changes the effect that wages have on the number of people businesses hire? Is this some kind of weird union economics where you replace reality with your imagination?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Gnads

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #200 - Oct 31^st, 2021 at 5:27pm

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:31am:

Quote:

No business that was totally honest and above board would be in the least concerned over a Union checking on them to see they comply with the rules, and no business would have its employment level altered by the existence of a union.

What if the unions somehow increased the cost of hiring people? Could that affect the number of people they hire?

How would they do that somehow?

No matter how you change the clothes you’re still dressing this pig up as the same piece of malicious BS.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #201 - Oct 31^st, 2021 at 5:42pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 31^st, 2021 at 5:27pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:31am:

Quote:

No business that was totally honest and above board would be in the least concerned over a Union checking on them to see they comply with the rules, and no business would have its employment level altered by the existence of a union.

What if the unions somehow increased the cost of hiring people? Could that affect the number of people they hire?

How would they do that somehow?

No matter how you change the clothes you’re still dressing this pig up as the same piece of malicious BS.

Are you asking me how a union could increase the cost of hiring people?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Gnads

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #202 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:18am

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 2:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 2:04pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 12:08pm:

Quote:

and yes, I do think the answer you want depends on what you think

Can you explain how what I think changes the effect that wages have on the number of people businesses hire? Is this some kind of weird union economics where you replace reality with your imagination?

care to answer my question?

Not if it makes no sense.

Can you explain how what I think changes the effect that wages have on the number of people businesses hire? Is this some kind of weird union economics where you replace reality with your imagination?

So you think it reasonable to deny a worker a living wage so employers can pay less and that will encourage them to put more staff on?

It’s already been proven to be not the case When weekend penalty rates were slashed it did not create any more employment.

The same staff are simply expected to work for less.

You should cease the charade that you have a point to make.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61681 Here Gender:	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #203 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 8:26am Unions create unemployment While Business create un paid or more underpaid employment with poor and unsafe conditions. Between them you get a balance of employment wages with conditions and safety.
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Bam

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #204 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:32am

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 8:44am:

Bam wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 8:10pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:15am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 29^th, 2021 at 10:14am:

As I said before, the onus is on you to prove your claim.

Thus far, you have not managed to do that.

I don't need to prove anything if you are too scared to disagree with what I say. That was, after all, the point I was making.

Yes, you do. You made the point. You prove it.

It is not the responsibility of others to disprove it. That is the burden of proof fallacy.

Let's see if anyone disagrees with me first. John is still working up the courage.

Everyone disagrees with your assertion, and you're using this as an excuse to keep running away. You've made no effort to prove your claim - despite being asked to do so several times - because your claim is a load of rubbish.

Unions do not create unemployment, otherwise the decline in union membership would correlate with a decline in the unemployment rate. This has not happened.

What REALLY creates unemployment: economic downturns, federal government policies, and the Reserve Bank acting on those policies.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #205 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:31pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:18am:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 2:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 2:04pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2021 at 12:08pm:

Quote:

and yes, I do think the answer you want depends on what you think

Can you explain how what I think changes the effect that wages have on the number of people businesses hire? Is this some kind of weird union economics where you replace reality with your imagination?

care to answer my question?

Not if it makes no sense.

Can you explain how what I think changes the effect that wages have on the number of people businesses hire? Is this some kind of weird union economics where you replace reality with your imagination?

So you think it reasonable to deny a worker a living wage so employers can pay less and that will encourage them to put more staff on?

It’s already been proven to be not the case When weekend penalty rates were slashed it did not create any more employment.

The same staff are simply expected to work for less.

You should cease the charade that you have a point to make.

The unions are the only ones arguing it is reasonable to deny people a job.

Quote:

Everyone disagrees with your assertion

Wow. The unions speak for everyone and no-one at the same time. Do you have your own opinion, or do you go along with what "everyone" thinks?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #206 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:34pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:31pm:

The unions are the only ones arguing it is reasonable to deny people a job.

telling fibs again fd? Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:31pm:

Wow. The unions speak for everyone and no-one at the same time. Do you have your own opinion, or do you go along with what "everyone" thinks?

you've made some dumb comments in this thread, but this one takes the cake in my opinion. Have you had a few beers perchance?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53052 At my desk.	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #207 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:39pm If Bob is willing to work for $20, and Jo is willing to employ him for up to $20, but the union insists Jo cannot employ him for anything less than $22 and puts a stop to it, who is denying who a job?
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Dnarever

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #208 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:43pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:39pm:

If Bob is willing to work for $20, and Jo is willing to employ him for up to $20, but the union insists Jo cannot employ him for anything less than $22 and puts a stop to it, who is denying who a job?

The union will insist of the minimum award pay rate.

Union or no union it is illegal to pay under the minimum rate.

Minimum award rates are embarrassingly low, the employee would be the one saying no thanks.

Quote:

If Bob is willing to work for $20

No Bob is not willing to work for $20.

Quote:

Jo is willing to employ him for up to $20

No Jo is not going to be offering $20 she knows that the fine may bankrupt her.

This is how theoretical straw men fail in the real world.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #209 - Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:46pm

Dnarever wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:43pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 6:39pm:

If Bob is willing to work for $20, and Jo is willing to employ him for up to $20, but the union insists Jo cannot employ him for anything less than $22 and puts a stop to it, who is denying who a job?

The union will insist of the minimum award pay rate.

Union or no union it is illegal to pay under the minimum rate.

Minimum award rates are embarrassingly low, the employee would be the one saying no thanks.

So you agree that the unions think it is reasonable to deny people a job?

Do the unions ever destroy jobs that would otherwise pay above the award rate?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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