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Gnads

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Re: scab
Reply #75 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:20pm

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 1:26pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 12:58pm:

Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery? Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.

His pay cut is more than what many people earn in a year. Forgive me for not getting out the violin.

Relevance?

He worked, bettered himself & paid for the qualifications to earn that salary.

How much do you earn?

You sound just like Hockey, Scomo & Dutton.

A hypocritcal bunch of elitist TNUCs.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: scab
Reply #76 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:24pm

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 4:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 3:07pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 1:26pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 12:58pm:

Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery? Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.

His pay cut is more than what many people earn in a year. Forgive me for not getting out the violin.

His good fortune - in another circumstance you would leap to defend him from criticism that he is somehow getting more than a fair deal. If he's working away from home, he is entitled to payments for remote etc - and also tax deductions for meals etc.

Where would any company find $45k that someone was not entitled to somehow under 'enterprise agreements'? Maybe we should all go back to Awards pure and simple.... see how that pans out for the vultures companies.

Hope he's got a good accountant who knows his stuff.

My son is a Qld tradie and works damned hard for his excellent dollars. Going flat out at the moment he says.

Are you asking me to explain where the $45k came from, or where it went to?

And what exactly is your point here? If it's to make people feel sorry for your son, you've got an uphill battle. I expect most here would envy him if you told them what his salary is.

And that too is irrelevant.

You are fine about people being able to negotiate a fair salary on their own ....

but when it comes to an example as to one who has done that & got shafted

you come out all about other people earning less & envy.

You are the ultimate hypocrite.

In fact you're a right TNUC.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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John Smith

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Re: scab
Reply #77 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:47pm

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 9:59pm:

The SMH article states explicitly that Dna's conclusion should not be drawn from the data.

So you're going to ignore the whole article and it's claim that penalty rate cuts DID NOT increase employment, and instead run with one bit of semantics? Seems even you have little faith in your own claim FD Grin

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 9:59pm:

How about you John. Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?

Did penalty rate cuts create jobs FD?? A simple yes or no will suffice.

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 9:59pm:

This is simplistic to the point of stupidity. If a business becomes more profitable, due to lower wages for example, it will grow.

really?

You haven't met many business owners have you?

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Belgarion

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Re: scab
Reply #78 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:50pm

I see on tonights news that restaurant owners in Sydney are complaining that they cannot get staff as they begin to reopen. The overseas bodies they rely on are not available and they are no calling for Australians to step into the breach.

Fine to ask for Australian workers, but an industry that has relied on casualisation of its work force and on foreign visa holders is now reaping what is has sown.

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33359 Gender:	Re: scab Reply #79 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:12pm This quote is a reality with todays employers.
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freediver

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Re: scab
Reply #80 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:13pm

Quote:

So you're going to ignore the whole article and it's claim that penalty rate cuts DID NOT increase employment, and instead run with one bit of semantics?

I'll run with what the article actually says.

Can you explain the mechanism by which you think artificially increasing salaries would lead to companies offering more jobs?

Quote:

Did penalty rate cuts create jobs FD?? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes. But seeing as you are into semantics, it might help if you think of it as reducing the extent of job losses in this particular case.

Quote:

really? Grin Grin You haven't met many business owners have you?

I've met enough to know that they are not idiots.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin

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Re: scab
Reply #81 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:14pm

Belgarion wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:50pm:

I see on tonights news that restaurant owners in Sydney are complaining that they cannot get staff as they begin to reopen. The overseas bodies they rely on are not available and they are no calling for Australians to step into the breach.

Fine to ask for Australian workers, but an industry that has relied on casualisation of its work force and on foreign visa holders is now reaping what is has sown.

Agree

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: scab
Reply #82 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 7:37pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:12pm:

This quote is a reality with todays employers.

More likely JobReaper....

There I was shelling and butterflying prawns for dinner tonight, and I said to the ex - "I might not be as fast as the Chinese students the restaurants employ casually at slave rates - but I still get 'em done! They have to be fast or they don't get to work."

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Gnads

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Re: scab
Reply #83 - Oct 18^th, 2020 at 8:40pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 7:37pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:12pm:

This quote is a reality with todays employers.

More likely JobReaper....

There I was shelling and butterflying prawns for dinner tonight, and I said to the ex - "I might not be as fast as the Chinese students the restaurants employ casually at slave rates - but I still get 'em done! They have to be fast or they don't get to work."

JobRorters

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Jasin

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Re: scab
Reply #84 - Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:50am

Belgarion wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 5:50pm:

I see on tonights news that restaurant owners in Sydney are complaining that they cannot get staff as they begin to reopen. The overseas bodies they rely on are not available and they are no calling for Australians to step into the breach.

Fine to ask for Australian workers, but an industry that has relied on casualisation of its work force and on foreign visa holders is now reaping what is has sown.

Don't worry. In a way this is 'old news' as many businesses have found it hard to employ people who get more $$ sitting on Welfare atm with all these stimulus packages.
Why work when the Welfare pays more?
Obviously, its more better to get a job and your foot in the door before the exodus of the Welfare cuts and everyone having to go back and look for work.
Imagine the exodus of 'homeless' when the Corona Law of being turfed out for not having the rent when March next year ends.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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John Smith

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Re: scab
Reply #85 - Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:18pm

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2020 at 6:13pm:

I'll run with what the article actually says.
.

Bullshit you do ... you just make up crap to suit.
This is what the article said

Quote:

Sweeping cuts to penalty rates have failed to deliver the jobs boost promised three years ago when workers were told to accept lower pay for the good of the economy

Quote:

Yes. But seeing as you are into semantics, it might help if you think of it as reducing the extent of job losses in this particular case.

Whose arse did you pull that one out of? Up until covid, unemployment was on the decline

Quote:

I've met enough to know that they are not idiots.

I doubt it. From the crap you write I'd be surprised if you've ever spoken to one apart from when you ask him for a bag of bait.

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Our esteemed leader:
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Dnarever

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Re: scab
Reply #86 - Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:33pm

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 9:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 7:05pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 7:01pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 6:47pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 6:39pm:

Quote:

That's funny, I recall hearing the same argument FOR cutting penalty rates. But when rates were cut, it was found that they didn't create a single job ... instead there were more unemployed.

Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?

Yes definitely the loss of jobs was industry specific. People walked and it hurt the industry.

The data shows that employees voted with their feet.

That doesn't sound like unemployment. Did they vote to go on the dole?

https://theconversation.com/cutting-penalty-rates-was-supposed-to-create-jobs-it
-hasnt-and-heres-why-not-117178

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/penalty-rate-cuts-did-not-create-jobs-labor-20200522-p54vn7.html

The SMH article states explicitly that Dna's conclusion should not be drawn from the data.

How about you John. Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17^th, 2020 at 8:35pm:

The reason is that business will employ the number of people that they need. They do not employ people they don't need when wages are low and they do not sack people that they do need when wages increase.

This is simplistic to the point of stupidity. If a business becomes more profitable, due to lower wages for example, it will grow. If it grows, it "needs" more employees. No business has a fixed "need" of employees.

The SMH article states explicitly that Dna's conclusion should not be drawn from the data.

No a business representative said this and followed it with data that failed to support her statement.

Quote:

This is simplistic to the point of stupidity. If a business becomes more profitable, due to lower wages for example, it will grow.

Why will it grow ? low wages does not contribute to growth ? Disenchanted employees on reduced wages does not encourage productivity. Employees leaving is not a positive, Hard to find replacement employees are not overly interested in low paying work. Nor are new employees efficient or effective in the workplace.

So the business may well be left with employee churn inexperienced employees and short numbers. This in turn has a negative impact on service quality.

In short typically lowering wages will make the business more difficult to grow.

Working with Mac bank their mantra was employ the best pay the best keep the best. At that time the most profitable bank in the southern hemisphere.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53061 At my desk.	Re: scab Reply #87 - Oct 19^th, 2020 at 9:14pm John Smith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:18pm: Whose arse did you pull that one out of? Up until covid, unemployment was on the decline So the rates cuts did boost employment after all? Thanks John, your idiocy cuts both ways. Quote: Why will it grow ? Do I really have to explain why businesses grow? Are you really that simple?
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Jest

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Re: scab
Reply #88 - Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:17am

freediver wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 9:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

Whose arse did you pull that one out of? Up until covid, unemployment was on the decline

Do I really have to explain why businesses grow? Are you really that simple?

It was Friedman's biggest lie; that tax cuts and business profitability leads to more jobs and higher wages. Business profitability can lead to more jobs but the effect is very minimal. That's because (i) putting on new staff is the last resort for any business and (ii) Business like to use the money to draw down debt (in other words give the many back to the banks), buy back shares, watch their bank balance grow and when they spend its usually for a big ticket luxury item o'seas.

So of course cutting penalty rates didn't generate new jobs and truth is they knew it wouldn't. Its was just another money grab by the Business Unions.

Many of you have seen this guy B4 but his message is just as true today. More money to Business does not create jobs. More money in the pockets of the working/middle class does that.

Only IPA stooges claim otherwise

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Gnads

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Re: scab
Reply #89 - Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:39am

Jest wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:17am:

freediver wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 9:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

Whose arse did you pull that one out of? Up until covid, unemployment was on the decline

Do I really have to explain why businesses grow? Are you really that simple?

It was Friedman's biggest lie; that tax cuts and business profitability leads to more jobs and higher wages. Business profitability can lead to more jobs but the effect is very minimal. That's because (i) putting on new staff is the last resort for any business and (ii) Business like to use the money to draw down debt (in other words give the many back to the banks), buy back shares, watch their bank balance grow and when they spend its usually for a big ticket luxury item o'seas.

So of course cutting penalty rates didn't generate new jobs and truth is they knew it wouldn't. Its was just another money grab by the Business Unions.

Many of you have seen this guy B4 but his message is just as true today. More money to Business does not create jobs. More money in the pockets of the working/middle class does that.

Only IPA stooges claim otherwise

Good video.....

the old saying money is made round to go round .. not flat to stack .....is true

As this bloke states .... take away income from the working classes with wage cuts & under-employment

only takes money out of the economy and business suffers.

The less people have the less they spend in their businesses.

They seem so hooked on this ideology that they don't see that they are starving themselves.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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