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scab (Read 12268 times)
freediver
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Re: scab
Reply #60 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:01pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:47pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:39pm:
Quote:
That's funny, I recall hearing the same argument FOR cutting penalty rates. But when rates were cut, it was found that they didn't create a single job ... instead there were more unemployed.


Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?


Yes definitely the loss of jobs was industry specific. People walked and it hurt the industry.

The data shows that employees voted with their feet.


That doesn't sound like unemployment. Did they vote to go on the dole?
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Re: scab
Reply #61 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:47pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:39pm:
Quote:
That's funny, I recall hearing the same argument FOR cutting penalty rates. But when rates were cut, it was found that they didn't create a single job ... instead there were more unemployed.


Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?


Yes definitely the loss of jobs was industry specific. People walked and it hurt the industry.

The data shows that employees voted with their feet.


That doesn't sound like unemployment. Did they vote to go on the dole?



https://theconversation.com/cutting-penalty-rates-was-supposed-to-create-jobs-it
-hasnt-and-heres-why-not-117178


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/penalty-rate-cuts-did-not-create-jobs-labor-20200522-p54vn7.html
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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: scab
Reply #62 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:47pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:39pm:
Quote:
That's funny, I recall hearing the same argument FOR cutting penalty rates. But when rates were cut, it was found that they didn't create a single job ... instead there were more unemployed.


Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?


Yes definitely the loss of jobs was industry specific. People walked and it hurt the industry.

The data shows that employees voted with their feet.


That doesn't sound like unemployment. Did they vote to go on the dole?


They just as likely found honest work and were paid the correct wage.
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Re: scab
Reply #63 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 5:31pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 4:34pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 11:09am:
Quote:
According to the Book of Freediver, Union members stop people from getting jobs by having jobs


No.

To the extent they manage to increase wages and increase the cost of providing jobs through collusion, they cause unemployment. There are fewer jobs in total in the industry. It's not a zero sum game, they create a negative sum game. They benefit at everyone else's expense.

 
Bullshyte or should I say liar.

And rationalization ... who makes those decisions and takes away jobs??

Hypocrite.


It's an inevitable consequence Gnads. All you have to do is think about it. I dare you.


There is a mountain of evidence that shows wage increases do not impact employment numbers, the employer side make the claim with every wage increase and when it happens the outcome fails to support this claim.

The reason is that business will employ the number of people that they need. They do not employ people they don't need when wages are low and they do not sack people that they do need when wages increase.
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Re: scab
Reply #64 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:55pm
 
Non Unionist = Scab
Unionist = GRUB
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: scab
Reply #65 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 9:59pm
 
John Smith wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:05pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 7:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:47pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 6:39pm:
Quote:
That's funny, I recall hearing the same argument FOR cutting penalty rates. But when rates were cut, it was found that they didn't create a single job ... instead there were more unemployed.


Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?


Yes definitely the loss of jobs was industry specific. People walked and it hurt the industry.

The data shows that employees voted with their feet.


That doesn't sound like unemployment. Did they vote to go on the dole?



https://theconversation.com/cutting-penalty-rates-was-supposed-to-create-jobs-it
-hasnt-and-heres-why-not-117178


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/penalty-rate-cuts-did-not-create-jobs-labor-20200522-p54vn7.html


The SMH article states explicitly that Dna's conclusion should not be drawn from the data.

How about you John. Do you think there were more unemployed than there would have been without the rate cuts?

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:35pm:
The reason is that business will employ the number of people that they need. They do not employ people they don't need when wages are low and they do not sack people that they do need when wages increase.


This is simplistic to the point of stupidity. If a business becomes more profitable, due to lower wages for example, it will grow. If it grows, it "needs" more employees. No business has a fixed "need" of employees.
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Re: scab
Reply #66 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:53pm
 
Jasin wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:55pm:
Non Unionist = Scab
Unionist = GRUB


Anti-Unionist  = DUMB

Never met a Union hater who didn't run to the Union first thing when he/she was under threat from management... some people are just purely totally stupid or totally insane.

Had a bloke who hated Unions - he copped a bullet for flirting with the girls at a client's place - ran to the Union for help, but they couldn't save him.  He was begging, since he only wanted to keep his job until his son finished his education.

On the other hand, I saved a bloke who got irate and was alleged to have pointed a finger at a supervisor and abused him - witnesses said otherwise, and he was having at a fellow worker - and I won that one.  Put me squarely in the sights of the retard who was the general manager - who now, fortunately for the world, is dead.

A more deserving bloke you'd never meet....

When you permit management to ride rough-shod over your Union, and attack workers at will over anything, then you create your own problems - not least for those who stand up and represent you for free who are targeted by that same management, and while YOU are in your 'hate the unions' phase - you laugh about it and say they deserved it.  You never think the same when it comes to you, though, or when the same management destroys the company.

Funny thing - the Unions still go in to bat for those who are union haters... and the costs come in many ways for those doing the batting, let me tell you.

Die your own way - but don't blame me when you are the one in the barrel.
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« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:01pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: scab
Reply #67 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:58pm
 
Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot  he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery?  Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.
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Re: scab
Reply #68 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:07pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:58pm:
Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot  he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery?  Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.



Where is the illustrious Labor government in all this?  Nowhere to be seen other than on cloud nine feathering their own nests and pursuing their 'career' in politics.  Not that the other side would be better - if anything worse!

BTW - that's what companies call 'negotiation' these days - sign it or out you go.... WorkChoices - what are my choices?  Either your signature is on what we demand or your job is feeding the fishes..

We need a series of good old management massacres.... they do that a bit in the US....

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1048005?seq=1

"Abstract

Homicides committed against supervisors and coworkers by disgruntled employees have grown at a disturbing rate in the American workplace. Increasingly, embittered employees and ex-employees are seeking revenge through violence and murder for alleged mistreatment on the job. This article examines patterns and trends in available data and presents a theoretical profile of those who kill at the work site. It suggests that the typical homicide of employers and coworkers is committed by a disgruntled, white, middle-aged male who faces termination or who has recently been fired. Recommendations are advanced for how employers might better respond to problem employees and to homicidal threats at the workplace. These include prevention strategies, such as giving higher priority to the role of human resources, affording employees due process protection against unfair terminations, and changing the importance attached to the meaning of work in people's lives."


I see they don't address the real problems of problem management/supervision.

"disgruntled, white, middle-aged male who faces termination or who has recently been fired" ....

...dare one suggest that a loyal, long-serving employee just might be disgruntled over being unfairly booted out to suit some boy or girl manager's ideas, when that manager is most likely to have next to no real experience etc and be about as useful as an ejector seat on a submarine?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: scab
Reply #69 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:20pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:53pm:
Jasin wrote on Oct 17th, 2020 at 8:55pm:
Non Unionist = Scab
Unionist = GRUB


Anti-Unionist  = DUMB

Never met a Union hater who didn't run to the Union first thing when he/she was under threat from management... some people are just purely totally stupid or totally insane.

Had a bloke who hated Unions - he copped a bullet for flirting with the girls at a client's place - ran to the Union for help, but they couldn't save him.  He was begging, since he only wanted to keep his job until his son finished his education.

On the other hand, I saved a bloke who got irate and was alleged to have pointed a finger at a supervisor and abused him - witnesses said otherwise, and he was having at a fellow worker - and I won that one.  Put me squarely in the sights of the retard who was the general manager - who now, fortunately for the world, is dead.

A more deserving bloke you'd never meet....

When you permit management to ride rough-shod over your Union, and attack workers at will over anything, then you create your own problems - not least for those who stand up and represent you for free who are targeted by that same management, and while YOU are in your 'hate the unions' phase - you laugh about it and say they deserved it.  You never think the same when it comes to you, though, or when the same management destroys the company.

Funny thing - the Unions still go in to bat for those who are union haters... and the costs come in many ways for those doing the batting, let me tell you.

Die your own way - but don't blame me when you are the one in the barrel.


Oh. You mean the 'Union' (represented by a bloke that looked like Peter Coyote from the USA) that worked with an American Company to squeeze out the Australian Contractors that had been in the game for over 35 years as an 'Association'. So that the Union can get some 'clientele' from the American Company that brought in cheap Asian labour from South Korea. Who took 2 years to become 100% proficient compared to my 6 months with one month without a trainer (brought in from UK and ripped off by the American Company by $80,000 and thus he left). The 'cheap Asian labour' also worked without PPE... like shoes of all things while working. This Unionised Cheap Asian Labour also come into the job via 'Back Packer Visas' on a 6 month rotation although none stay in Back Packer Hostels or travel Australia.  They even had a big African American Security with Bollards galore because they thought the OZ Contractors would come and Protest etc, because they got shafted from the work. I worked for the Company and they screwed me over too because they only employ the 'token Aussie Local' for a training period of that particular duty, although mostly they try to push the menial other duties as much as they can get away with. Then they turf the local for another while the imported Cheap Asian just rotate for Visa reasons. Nah I saw that Security guy turn a blind eye to me as we drove past each other at break-neck speed. He was going to 'my' disturbance in the Office (Where big Aussie JaSin Labourer was taking on big South African Boer Manager). I was going to run over all his Security Bollards and such. If he tried to stop me, I would have dropped the wannabe. In the end, the Company called the Police who called me about my 'destruction' and 'threat of violence' to the Boer. Told em, I still haven't got used to the dirt roads out here - very slippery over 60km. He was a mate of my mate's in Sydney and laughed. He knew what the American Company and its yankee Union here were up to. Asked me how I went with that big African American security. Told him he had fled the scene before I got there because he knew I was heading in his direction. Went and consoled the Boer Manager. Who I put my fist to his face I reckon a ml more I would have brushed his whiskers. I could tell in his eyes that if this was South Africa - he would have easily tried pop me in the back of the head with a bullet from a safe hidden place. Instead, I put the word out that I will break both his knees if I caught him 'off property'. I think he couldn't cope with the 'home isolationism' and moved to Victoria in transfer.
Don't fly the Eureka Stockade Yankee Cross Flag.
We fly the Confederate Rebel Flag down here. Our methods are better than the yanks one.  Wink
Nah - f*uck the Yankee Unions.
Australian Confederate raised Yellows are far better Workers than those silly little Asian types the Unions prefer.

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« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:35pm by Jasin »  

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: scab
Reply #70 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:23pm
 
You are off the planet today, JaSin - we don't do American unions here and we don't have Unions that permit body hire and other abuse without objection...

You sure you don't mean 'management' in place of Union? You sound very confused today.....
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Re: scab
Reply #71 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:26pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:58pm:
Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot  he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery?  Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.


His pay cut is more than what many people earn in a year. Forgive me for not getting out the violin.
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Re: scab
Reply #72 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:43pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:23pm:
You are off the planet today, JaSin - we don't do American unions here and we don't have Unions that permit body hire and other abuse without objection...

You sure you don't mean 'management' in place of Union? You sound very confused today.....


You might be right Grapps. The word 'Union' just ticked me off. Got two issues I've gotta get the boot up the arse to the local Council on behalf of the poor and unfortunate (dis). Got a take over by a new Company that is doing the Chinese trick of letting everything go to crap to make the Renters get sick of it and leave (but they can't untill after the end of March next year). I refuse to pay Rent now because their lack of keeping up Standard (health & safety issues now galore). Few more other things. Not easy being Celibate.
"There's no sex in my violence
no sex in my violence."
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Everything Zen?"
"...I don't think so."


Maybe I should bash a Gay and butt-rape a Redneck just to piss both of them off for giving them what they fear and hate the most? Might be some good anger management? Whaddaya think Grapps? Us benevolent Medical/Support/Celibate/Buddhist-like types really should let some steam out like a Soldier on a Genocide Mission sometimes. Might do me some good? Huh
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: scab
Reply #73 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 3:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:26pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:58pm:
Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot  he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery?  Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.


His pay cut is more than what many people earn in a year. Forgive me for not getting out the violin.



His good fortune - in another circumstance you would leap to defend him from criticism that he is somehow getting more than a fair deal.  If he's working away from home, he is entitled to payments for remote etc - and also tax deductions for meals etc.

Where would any company find $45k that someone was not entitled to somehow under 'enterprise agreements'?  Maybe we should all go back to Awards pure and simple.... see how that pans out for the vultures companies.

Hope he's got a good accountant who knows his stuff.

My son is a Qld tradie and works damned hard for his excellent dollars.  Going flat out at the moment he says.
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Re: scab
Reply #74 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 4:10pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 3:07pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 1:26pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 12:58pm:
Heres' a fine example of the shyte going on in non union workplaces.

My son works in waste water management in the Gas fields near Wondoan. He's employed as a plumber/fitter ..... he paid for his CERT IV courses in waste water treatment out of his own - over $6,000.

The company he works for has just sold out to a larger firm .... his old boss has been kept on a manager...

The new firm has been in charge albeit 5 mins when they inform my son that he is required to sign a new contract ... which involves him taking on more responsibility, paperwork & training an apprentice(govt subsidised) .....

then to boot  he got a cut in salary of - $45,000 per year.

How is that sort of action fair & reasonable and not Employer thuggery?  Roll Eyes

These are the same people who wanted to increase a qualification in the job description and make the employees pay for the training course & ticket themselves.


His pay cut is more than what many people earn in a year. Forgive me for not getting out the violin.



His good fortune - in another circumstance you would leap to defend him from criticism that he is somehow getting more than a fair deal.  If he's working away from home, he is entitled to payments for remote etc - and also tax deductions for meals etc.

Where would any company find $45k that someone was not entitled to somehow under 'enterprise agreements'?  Maybe we should all go back to Awards pure and simple.... see how that pans out for the vultures companies.

Hope he's got a good accountant who knows his stuff.

My son is a Qld tradie and works damned hard for his excellent dollars.  Going flat out at the moment he says.


Are you asking me to explain where the $45k came from, or where it went to?

And what exactly is your point here? If it's to make people feel sorry for your son, you've got an uphill battle. I expect most here would envy him if you told them what his salary is.
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