Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 6:18pm:


It is not a black body; it does not have an emissivity of 1.

Arctic Ice



Wow. I see some yellow in there. Over 3 metres this late in the season.

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 6:30pm:


But they overlap petal.


"The infrared absorption spectrum of atmospheric greenhouse gases is very complex. In some regions absorption frequencies of various greenhouse gases overlap, so the contributions of each component do not add linearly. Radiation at a particular frequency can be absorbed by either water vapour or CO2. The concentration of water vapour is dependent on temperature and varies greatly by both latitude and altitude. Also, water changes from a liquid to a gas with heat energy for the latent heat of evaporation required for the transformation."

https://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/CO2_Versus_Water.h...

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 6:30pm:



Poor petal. He just gets so confused.

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 6:38pm:


I didn't petal. You said "now 2m is the thickest ice there is" and you do know there is a 100mm cm difference?

But enlighten us on when it was 10 metres thick?

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 6:56pm:



No petal. You?

But -

"I received the following reply from Julienne Stroeve (reproduced with permission):

“ … using passive microwave data it is very easy to tell the difference between ice and water as the dielectric constant differs quite a bit and this is reflected in large differences in the microwave emission. The main advantage of using passive microwave is that it can see the ice even if it’s cloudy or dark. There is a problem however in summer when melt ponds form on the ice since the sea ice algorithms then underestimate how much ice there really is (they think it’s open water). That’s one reason why we focus on extent rather than true ice area for the NSIDC sea ice news and analysis web site."

"The Early Twentieth-Century Warming in the Arctic—A Possible Mechanism by LENNART BENGTSSON, VLADIMIR A. SEMENOV, OLA M. JOHANNESSEN [link].  Excerpt:

The Arctic 1920–40 warming is one of the most puzzling climate anomalies of the twentieth century. Over some 15 yr the Arctic warmed by 1.78C and remained warm for more than a decade. This is a warming in the region comparable in magnitude to what is to be expected as a consequence of anthropogenic climate change in the next several decades. A gradual cooling commenced in the late 1940s bringing the temperature back to much lower values, although not as cold as before the warming started. …this warming was associated with and presumably initiated by a major increase in the westerly to southwesterly wind north of Norway leading to enhanced atmospheric and ocean heat transport from the comparatively warm North Atlantic Current through the passage between northern Norway and Spitsbergen into the Barents Sea….the increased winds were not related to the NAO, which in fact weakened during the 1920s and remained weak for the whole period of the warm Arctic anomaly. …the process behind the warming was most likely reduced sea ice cover, mainly in the Barents Sea. This is not an unexpected finding because of the climatic effect of sea ice in comparison with that of an open sea but is intriguing since previously available sea ice data (Chapman and Walsh 1993) did not indicate a reduced sea ice cover in the 1930s and 1940s. However, as we have shown here recent sea ice datasets [Johannessen et al. (2004) give a detailed presentation] actually showed a retreat in this period

The following extracts come from Johanssen et al 2004 [link]:

“The global gridded SAT data set (Jones et al., 1999) used most extensively for studies of climate variability has major gaps in the northern high latitudes, in particular over the ice-covered Arctic Ocean and some surrounding land areas.” "

"http://geology.com/articles/northwest-passage.shtml

"In 1957, three United States Coast Guard Cutters, Storis, Bramble and SPAR became the first ships to cross the Northwest Passage along a deep draft route. They covered the 4,500 miles of semi-charted water in 64 days.


The first ship capable of carrying significant cargo to traverse the Passage was the SS Manhattan, a specially reinforced supertanker, in 1969. It was accompanied by the John A Macdonald, a Canadian icebreaker. This trip was taken to test the Northwest Passage as an alternative to building the Alaska Pipeline. At that time it was determined that the Northwest Passage was not economical and the Alaska Pipeline was built."

"This reference by Ahlmann and others concerning the rapidly warming arctic can be picked up on the occasion of a lecture he gave in 1952 as the principal address at the meeting of the Seventeenth International Geographical Congress in Washington, D. C. [link]"

"“The thickness of the ice forming annually in the North Polar Sea has diminished from an average of 365 centimeters at the time of Nansen’s Fram expedition of 1893-96 to 218 centimeters during the drift of the Russian icebreaker Sedov in 1937-40. The extent of drift ice in Arctic waters has also diminished considerably in the last decades.”"

[url]extracts: https://judithcurry.com/2013/04/10/historic-variations-in-arctic-sea-ice-part-ii...[/url]

147 cm that's impressive Global warming 1893 - 1940.

lee wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 7:19pm:


Well it has been over 15 hours since that post and according to JM's timeline of 17 minutes it would appear he didn't know the answer to his own question. Poor petal.

lee wrote on Aug 13^th, 2020 at 7:19pm:


GOLD................

Just a though today we have filled our atmosphere with man made radiowaves, microwaves, lasers and whatever else.

Has anyone every asked the question ...?

How much heat do manmade waves produce in our atmosphere.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2020 at 10:27am:


No matter, all frequencies excite atomic particles which in the end produce some form of energy - including heat.