SadKangaroo wrote on May 13^th, 2020 at 7:19am:


Nope, I've observed this debate for many years.

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Why should such companies be trusted?

In 2010 two former Merck (a major vaccine manufacturer) virologists filed a Federal False Claims Act complaint when the Act first became law. The complaint reports that Merck allegedly "knowingly falsified its mumps vaccine effectiveness test data, spiked blood samples with animal antibodies, and sold a vaccine that actually promoted mumps and measles outbreaks." Merck’s attorneys were unsuccessful in their attempts to block the case from going to trial. A Federal District Judge recently ruled the whistle blowers and direct purchasers produced enough evidence to establish that false statements could have helped give Merck a monopoly.

A recent study published in The New England Journal of Medicine supports the strong possibility that the Merck whistle blowers were being truthful. It revealed that an astounding 97 percent of children affected by a mumps outbreak that swept the Northeast back in 2009 had already been fully vaccinated for the condition in accordance with recommended government guidelines. Many of us are not comfortable injecting Merck creations into very young children.

The DPT triple vaccine (diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus) is supposed to convey immunity to pertussis (whooping cough). In 2010, the largest outbreak of whooping cough in over 50 years reportedly occurred in California. What appears to have been a scare campaign was then launched in the state by Big Pharma funded medical trade associations and public health officials, falsely accusing people who had opted-out of the pertussis vaccine as being the cause of that whooping cough outbreak. But research released in 2012 painted a very different picture than what had been spread by the media in 2010...


In 1986 Congress removed legal liability from drug companies for damage done by vaccines...

THE TRUTH ABOUT VACCINES: QUESTIONING IS VERY APPROPRIATE


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Probably a good thing you weren't vaccinated, according to Dr Robert Mendelsohn:

Whooping Cough
by Dr Mendelsohn MD

Dr. Gordon T. Stewart, head of the department of community medicine at the University of Glasgow, Scotland, is one of the most vigorous critics of the pertussis vaccine. He says he supported the inoculation before 1974 but then began to observe outbreaks of pertussis in children who had been vaccinated. "Now, in Glasgow," he says, "30 per-cent of our whooping cough cases are occurring in vaccinated patients. This leads me to believe that the vaccine is not all that protective."

As is the case with other infectious diseases, mortality had begun to decline before the vaccine became available. The vaccine was not introduced until about 1936, but mortality from the disease had already been declining steadily since 1900 or earlier. According to Stewart, "the decline in pertussis mortality was 80 percent before the vaccine was ever used." He shares my view that the key factor in controlling whooping cough is probably not the vaccine but improvement in the living conditions of potential victims.


... more later...

SadKangaroo wrote on May 16^th, 2020 at 8:58am:


That's the whole point. The companies, and the government bodies that 'oversee'  them, don't follow the science:

'The government and drug companies have been caught and/or convicted time and again of suppressing or altering data in many areas, including public health.'

(from above link)

And if you think when your doctor says a vaccine is needed he is abiding by science then you are naive:

'Keep in mind, family doctors don't do their own primary research. Virtually any “science” they offer in this area has been financed/influenced by a pharmaceutical company that stands to profit.'

(from above link)

This is science:

'in 1994, the Journal of the American Medical Association published data showing that children diagnosed with asthma were five times more likely than not to have received the pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine'

(from above link)

So when someone decides against that vaccine they're following the science.

So you're bindly accepting propaganda, Sad Kangaroo. Unless proper vaccine safety studies have been conducted it cannot be called science:

"Vaccine proponents have stated that there are over 20,000 studies that "prove" the safety of vaccines. But a closer inspection of those studies would likely reveal otherwise. Dr. Palevsky explained:

        "…in order for us to really delve into those studies, we have to look at who supported the studies. What was the study design? What were the control groups? How big was the actual number of kids or adults that was used in those studies? I think we will see that in most of those studies, the actual safety has never really been proven.

        "One of the reasons that I think we can fairly say that is that the vaccine manufacturers and the conventional medical organizations have not done studies that compare vaccinated to unvaccinated children. In order for us to really know if children who were vaccinated are having an adverse effect from a vaccine, we have to use a placebo group that's given an injection of maybe normal saline to evaluate whether or not they developed the same symptoms that children who were vaccinated may develop after they're injected with the vaccine. Those studies are not done..."

Dr. Joseph Mercola Interviews Dr. Lawrence Palevsky About Vaccination and Health

Again, government and drug companies often do not abide by science:

'A review of the medical literature on aluminum reveals a surprising lack of scientific evidence that injected aluminum is safe. There is limited understanding of what happens to children when aluminum is injected into their bodies, including whether or not it accumulates in tissues and organs or is properly eliminated from the body...

'What is even more concerning is the lack of accepted scientific data explaining whether injected aluminum interacts with other vaccine ingredients to cause harm to our children. Boyd Haley, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Chemistry at the University of Kentucky completed lab experiments showing the damaging effects on nerve cells when he exposed them to aluminum, especially in the presence of other vaccine ingredients like mercury, formaldehyde, and the antibiotic neomycin.[6] [7] His data, however, have been ignored by the scientific, medical and governmental institutions making vaccine policies.[8] The scientific community needs to be doing these experiments in the lab before shooting kids with these ingredients and declaring unequivocal vaccine safety for all children...'

'How many more children need to be potentially harmed before we invoke the precautionary principle and the Hippocratic Oath – First, Do No Harm? If there’s no adequate science, and we have positive evidence of toxicity from aluminum, injected alone or in conjunction with other ingredients, and we have a potential model to understand why certain chronic conditions may be developing in a susceptible population of children, then injecting aluminum containing vaccines into anyone should stop right now until we have the proper scientific proof we need to say otherwise. We need the same scientific proof of safety for all vaccine ingredients and their interactions, and we need parents, scientists and practitioners to stand up and demand nothing less before we make matters worse.'

Lawrence B. Palevsky,
MD, FAAP Pediatrician

Aluminum and Vaccine Ingredients: What Do We Know? What Don’t We Know?

When government and drug companies ignore such data and research how can you possibly call it science, Sad Kangaroo?

When vaccine manufacturers and the conventional medical organizations have not done studies that compare vaccinated to unvaccinated children how can you possibly call it science, Sad Kangaroo?

Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccination and autism

Wombatwood are you prepared to accept a bet on the effectiveness of vaccination?

I'm prepared to bet $10,000 are you?

I'll get all the vaccinations require to visit West Africa, including one for Ebola.  You don't.  We will both travel to West Africa.  Whats the betting you come down with a tropic disease, such as Ebola?   Will be prepared to pay up when you lose the bet?   

Brian Ross wrote on May 17^th, 2020 at 1:11pm:


Who funded that?

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Ridiculous!

waggawoody wrote on May 18^th, 2020 at 1:21am:


Who cares?  Its results were comprehensive.   
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I'll accept that as a white flag then shall I?  Not prepared to stand by your claims, hey?   Troll.   

waggawoody wrote on May 17^th, 2020 at 12:26am:


Palevsky is largely responsible for the measles outbreak in New York City because he's been pushing the thoroughly debunked idea based on invalid research that the MMR vaccine causes autism.  Even during the outbreak he's pushing parents not to vaccinate their children.

And I'm fully aware of who he is and what is claims are.  They are, as highlighted above, his opinions which sadly for those who believe them aren't based actual research but "likely" what the results would be if you tried.

He is exactly what the type of source I was referring to with,

SadKangaroo wrote on May 16^th, 2020 at 8:58am:


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

He is using "Won't someone think of the children" to elicit an emotional response from parents whose children already have autism and want someone, something to blame which turns them into vocal advocates for him so other parents will heed his advice.  He profits from parents seeking him out to get exemptions for their children from mandatory vaccination programs where their children wouldn't quality due to not having an allergy or preexisting condition that would make them unable to take the vaccine, plus he's paid to give lectures on the subject and there are talks of book deals.

People also fall for his legitimate credentials, something he's putting at risk pushing this nonsense, which is exactly why the anti-vaccination community love him.

But he hasn't actually brought anything that one could consider evidence to the table, not in the strictest terms.

The best you can take from his claims that, if they're true, it would leave some questions unanswered that would require further reserach, but instead he takes it one step further and makes a conclusion from it, "therefore vaccines are not safe" in classic "god of the gaps" fashion.

It also doesn't help that much of his claims also have one foot in the conspiratorial door.

If he's the best you've got to claim the science is wrong, you're in trouble.

SadKangaroo wrote on May 19^th, 2020 at 6:44am:


How? Or is that just your opinion?

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It's only been thoroughly debunked if you believe all the propaganda.

Lies, Damned Lies and CDC Autism Statistics

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How is this not research?

"…When it was said that the reason the measles vaccine was implemented in 1963 was to  prevent against the massive cases of encephalitis that occurred as a result of slow viral re-ignition of a measles infection months or years later, I went into CDC. I looked it up to see what was the incidence of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis or SSPE. It showed that it was .0061 percent. There was .0061 percent incidence rate of encephalitis after measles infection. Well, that's not a massive number of cases of measles encephalitis.

"But now, we have one in 88 children with autism, and it is pretty well documented in the literature that one of the hallmark pathologies in autism is brain encephalitis or brain inflammation. One in 88 is 1.14 percent brain inflammation or 1.14 percent encephalitis. We've now gone from a .0061 percent encephalitis after measles infection to a 1.14 percent encephalitis rate in children... we have more cases of brain encephalitis after vaccination than we had before we started the measles vaccine. So, how successful are we in reducing some of the bad side effects of the diseases?"

Dr. Joseph Mercola Interviews Dr. Lawrence Palevsky About Vaccination and Health

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US National Library of Medicine:

Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) are serious multisystem developmental disorders and an urgent global public health concern. Dysfunctional immunity and impaired brain function are core deficits in ASD. Aluminum (Al), the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant, is a demonstrated neurotoxin . .. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248).

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Like I said at the onset, follow the money:

Marcia Angell, MD, former editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the world’s most well respected medical journals, said the pharmaceutical industry “has moved very far from it’s original high purpose of discovering and producing useful new drugs. Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, this industry uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, Food and Drug Administration, academic medical centers, and the medical profession itself.”