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Pell walks (Read 15122 times)
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #360 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:57pm
 
Quote:
he still tenses up when it comes on TV......he has been compensated  but it doesnt take away the years of living with it does it?....


By whom, cods? 
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Gnads
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #361 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:59pm
 
cods wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:48pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:43pm:
If the rulings of your employer are in fact criminal i.e. covering up criminal acts.....

then of course it's a crime.

You say you didn't know that? Good grief.

If you worked for a company that told you to commit fraud on your customers .... would you just go along with that? Or blow the whistle?

If you did go along & got caught would you think you should get off the hook because you were following instructions?

They are priests, sick criminal child abusing priests ... not soldiers/military following orders.

And for what they have done they are not men of God.

The sanctity of the confessional should be scrapped .... & yes I do blame the Pope.

He is the head honcho & where the last buck stops



it was in reference to the church...

if a person dies on a building site   then the company he worked for is charged with negligence....not the forman or the person who gave him instructions on the site...

the boss man is always charged with the crime...

accept in this case. Sad


are you sure about that?

Anyone who gives the instruction that causes a death has his/her nuts/tits in a sling as well as the boss.

It goes through all of management & sorts out how much blame is apportioned to whom.
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #362 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:08pm
 
cods wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 4:39pm:
Yadda wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 12:22pm:

It has been advertised on Sky News today, on WIN, that Pell will appear on The Bolt Report,
this coming Tuesday night.
An interview with Andrew Bolt.



I'm going to watch.



I don't have much respect for the Catholic Church.

But i'm interested in this particular issue.   ......the Pell conviction, on the [solitary] 'evidence', of the accusation of one accuser.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1586218255/25#25
Quote:

There wasn't enough evidence for the jury [the '12 people good and true'], to come to any reasonable and safe decision to convict.

The judge was a complete goose imo, to allow the jury to proceed to any legal 'determination'.






I'm certainly not going to watch Pell making excuses to his sycophant Bolt.

His conviction was squashed it does not mean he's innocent of all misdoings.

Aiding & abetting paedophiles in continuing their criminal sexual abuse of children is also a criminal act IMHO.




an interesting comment gnads...

no offense but you directed me to watch Revelations more than once......why do you suppose you did that???>>


was that to see this case from another point of view.... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


yet here you are refusing to do the same thing  because it wont follow your dogma

I do hope you can see the hypocrisy....

you claim I am supporting him..  Roll Eyesbecause I dont fall into line with your concept....

now it looks like you are doing the same thing only accusing him..

Bolt is a Pell supporter.. maybe he is the only one who will give Pell his moment to speak freely... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

where else can he go?..


To give you some idea & look into the background of what has been going on for decades unchecked & swept under the carpet by senior Catholics here & around the globe.

Pells own case of his alleged sexual abuse is a small piece of his time in the Church & there's the other goings on ...... he was in Ballarat when one of the most notorious offenders Gerald Risdale who was convicted between 1993 and 2017 of a large number of child sexual abuse and indecent assault charges against 65 children aged as young as four years.

Honestly I can't believe your not outraged & baying for the blood of these supposed protectors of children who were initially shielded by their superiors.
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #363 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:14pm
 
Victorian government targeted George Pell
13.04.20.

The George Pell fiasco is not running out of steam.

Some journalists are at last doing their job, a job if done properly in the first place might have averted this travesty of justice which gets deeper with every passing day as the wicked players are exposed for what they really are—and their degree of worthiness to a just judiciary.

The entire business stinks to high heaven.

Cardinal George Pell was a target because he supported and represented everything the Victorian state government and its Premier abhors — religion, traditional marriage, conservative culture and the monarchy, Piers Akerman writes.


https://morningmail.org/victorian-government-targeted-george-pell/#more-115045



Victorian government failed in its witch-hunt against Cardinal George Pell’
Piers Akerman, The Sunday Telegraph

The Victorian state government and Premier Daniel Andrews must be held to account for the grotesque manner in which they have acted to undermine legal principles in their quest to overturn the long-established bedrocks of society.

Cardinal George Pell was their ­target because he supported and represented everything the Andrews government abhors — religion, traditional marriage, conservative culture, the monarchy and former prime minister John Howard.


However, the Victorian justice system and those who are unfortunately subjected to it are the victims.

The High Court’s total repudiation of the Victorian Appellate Court’s ­decision to keep Cardinal George Pell in prison has now stripped the socialist government of its cover.

In 2015, the Andrews government passed the Jury Directions Act which in Section 39, paragraphs 1-3, is not only contradictory but falls over backwards to give the testimony of accusers greater weight than that of their ­accused. The High Court Justices ­referred to this flaw in their 44-page unanimous 7-0 judgment.

Under the Act the judge is instruc­ted not to suggest to the jury that the “victim’s evidence … be scrutinised with great care”.
This bizarre legislation was echoed by Premier Andrews in a dismissive statement following the High Court decision.

The Premier contemptuously said: “I make no comment about today’s High Court decision. But I have a message for every single victim and survivor of child sex abuse: I see you. I hear you. I believe you.”


Premier Andrews is playing politics and bowing before his Left-wing supporters in the hard-core, inner-urban electorates and had it not been for this vast overreach by the Victorian Police and the Victorian Court system he would have got away with perpetrating a manifestly gross injustice, let alone false imprisonment of a good man.

The High Court lashed the majority of the Victorian Appellate court (Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and President of the Appeals Court Chris Maxwell) over their failure to uphold Cardinal Pell’s appeal against his conviction on five charges of sexual assault involving two boys in 1996 and 1997.

The Court found that the opinion of Justice Mark Weinberg, the sole dissenter on the Victorian Appellate bench, was correct. The Victorian justice system failed.

There has been a torrent of ill-­informed comment on the internet, as one would expect, and largely it is the baying of the same ignorant mob that cheered the Victorian police witch-hunt against the Cardinal and lauded the manner in which he was hauled in handcuffs daily to his farcical trial.

The ABC ran execrable, biased and bigoted commentary on the Pell matter up to and after the decision routinely violating its charter.

Other Left-wing media followed, not least the New York Times.

The mob that delights in Premier Andrews’ antics revels in its own ignorance. Social media is littered with boasts from users who claim not to need to read the court documents to determine guilt or innocence.

The mob doesn’t understand that the High Court was ruling not on whether Cardinal Pell committed any offences but on the conduct of the Victorian Appellate Court and it found that the two judges in the majority erred in ignoring the obvious grounds for reasonable doubt.

The behaviour of the Victorian Police is beyond despicable. The police showed the same lack of integrity they displayed when they put Lawyer X on their payroll breaching the entire basis of lawyer-client confidentiality.

Victoria’s Director of Public Prosecutions, Kerri Judd, must also be asked why she chose to prosecute such a glaringly weak case.

As I wrote last March 3, a year ago, when the Cardinal was wrongfully convicted: “It is now apparent that all Australians are required as a matter of course to give deference to self-­proclaimed victims of sexual abuse, proven or not.”

Victoria’s Opposition leader Mich­ael O’Brien has now stepped up, saying: “The unanimous High Court verdict in the Pell case is an embarrassment to Victoria’s legal system. How could police, prosecutors and judges have got it so wrong for so long?

“This comes on the heels of the unanimous High Court decision in the Lawyer X case which called out “reprehensible conduct” in Victorian prosecutions.

Daniel Andrews wants to ignore the High Court’s clear message — Victoria’s legal system needs to be cleaned up.”

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« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2020 at 8:12pm by juliar »  
 
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #364 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:14pm
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 7:08pm:


@ Reply #311,

Full marks, to cods.




Roll Eyes Roll Eyes You're easily pleased.

I don't want to hear you bag Muslims anymore

because it seems you're as big a fanatical Catholic.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #365 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:20pm
 
Quote:
Juliar -

Some journalists are at last doing their job, a job if done properly in the first place might have averted this travesty of justice which gets deeper with every passing day as the wicked players are exposed for what they really are—and their degree of worthiness to a just judiciary.

The entire business stinks to high heaven.

Cardinal George Pell was a target because he supported and represented everything the Victorian state government and its Premier abhors — religion, traditional marriage, conservative culture and the monarchy, Piers Akerman writes.


https://morningmail.org/victorian-government-targeted-george-pell/#more-115045



Victorian government failed in its witch-hunt against Cardinal George Pell’
Piers Akerman, The Sunday Telegraph

The Victorian state government and Premier Daniel Andrews must be held to account for the grotesque manner in which they have acted to undermine legal principles in their quest to overturn the long-established bedrocks of society.

Cardinal George Pell was their ­target because he supported and represented everything the Andrews government abhors — religion, traditional marriage, conservative culture, the monarchy and former prime minister John Howard.

However, the Victorian justice system and those who are unfortunately subjected to it are the victims.

The High Court’s total repudiation of the Victorian Appellate Court’s ­decision to keep Cardinal George Pell in prison has now stripped the socialist government of its cover.

In 2015, the Andrews government passed the Jury Directions Act which in Section 39, paragraphs 1-3, is not only contradictory but falls over backwards to give the testimony of accusers greater weight than that of their ­accused. The High Court Justices ­referred to this flaw in their 44-page unanimous 7-0 judgment.

Under the Act the judge is instruc­ted not to suggest to the jury that the “victim’s evidence … be scrutinised with great care”.
This bizarre legislation was echoed by Premier Andrews in a dismissive statement following the High Court decision.

The Premier contemptuously said: “I make no comment about today’s High Court decision. But I have a message for every single victim and survivor of child sex abuse: I see you. I hear you. I believe you.”

Premier Andrews is playing politics and bowing before his Left-wing supporters in the hard-core, inner-urban electorates and had it not been for this vast overreach by the Victorian Police and the Victorian Court system he would have got away with perpetrating a manifestly gross injustice, let alone false imprisonment of a good man.

The High Court lashed the majority of the Victorian Appellate court (Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and President of the Appeals Court Chris Maxwell) over their failure to uphold Cardinal Pell’s appeal against his conviction on five charges of sexual assault involving two boys in 1996 and 1997.

The Court found that the opinion of Justice Mark Weinberg, the sole dissenter on the Victorian Appellate bench, was correct. The Victorian justice system failed.

There has been a torrent of ill-­informed comment on the internet, as one would expect, and largely it is the baying of the same ignorant mob that cheered the Victorian police witch-hunt against the Cardinal and lauded the manner in which he was hauled in handcuffs daily to his farcical trial.

The ABC ran execrable, biased and bigoted commentary on the Pell matter up to and after the decision routinely violating its charter.

Other Left-wing media followed, not least the New York Times.

The mob that delights in Premier Andrews’ antics revels in its own ignorance. Social media is littered with boasts from users who claim not to need to read the court documents to determine guilt or innocence.

The mob doesn’t understand that the High Court was ruling not on whether Cardinal Pell committed any offences but on the conduct of the Victorian Appellate Court and it found that the two judges in the majority erred in ignoring the obvious grounds for reasonable doubt.

The behaviour of the Victorian Police is beyond despicable. The police showed the same lack of integrity they displayed when they put Lawyer X on their payroll breaching the entire basis of lawyer-client confidentiality.

Victoria’s Director of Public Prosecutions, Kerri Judd, must also be asked why she chose to prosecute such a glaringly weak case.

As I wrote last March 3, a year ago, when the Cardinal was wrongfully convicted: “It is now apparent that all Australians are required as a matter of course to give deference to self-­proclaimed victims of sexual abuse, proven or not.”

Victoria’s Opposition leader Mich­ael O’Brien has now stepped up, saying: “The unanimous High Court verdict in the Pell case is an embarrassment to Victoria’s legal system. How could police, prosecutors and judges have got it so wrong for so long?

“This comes on the heels of the unanimous High Court decision in the Lawyer X case which called out “reprehensible conduct” in Victorian prosecutions.

Daniel Andrews wants to ignore the High Court’s clear message — Victoria’s legal system needs to be cleaned up.”



This has nothing to do with traditional values that you think Pell upholds & Daniel Andrews does not.

Since when has paedophilia & child sexual abuse been traditional?
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #366 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:26pm
 
Squires, lieges, altar boys...apprentices. The British Empire was founded on man/boy relations. What did you think boys were doing when they carried a soldier's 'sword'?
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #367 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 8:04pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 4:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 3:45pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 3:38pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 3:19pm:
Quote:
If I was on the jury the question you pose would have been irrelevant and not even put to me to consider....My point is I am entitled to weigh every accusation and known fact in forming my opinion, I am not constrained to only consider evidence put forward in the trial....I also question your claim that Pell did not know that others were abusing kids under his leadership when witness have testified Pell was told of abuse and brushed aside such allegations....You also failed to answer if you believe I am not entitled to form such an opinion based on all known facts???

Huh Huh


Believe what you like Phil.  Come to whatever opinion you prefer. Personally, I have zero faith that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden or that there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, but that's just me, I guess.

So, having answered your question, how about the same courtesy?  If you were on that Jury, would you have convicted Pell of the charges made against him?


You answered SFA mate and instead made an off the cuff remark insinuating I have based my opinion on emotion not facts which is bullshit....If I was a juror on Pell's trial I have no idea what verdict I would have reached based only on the facts presented, however the witness (you believe is a liar and fraud) was apparently very believable and had no ulterior motive to pursue Pell over false allegations....I have every right to believe in Pell's guilt and accept the accusations made against him!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


What are those 'facts' Phil?


The fact Pell has been accused by multiple people whom all tell a similar story about his abuse....The fact he was in charge of priests whom were moved because of abusing children which Pell claims to know nothing about....The fact the Church have a history of telling lies and covering up abuse (whilst Pell was in charge)....The fact that I am entitled to reach what ever opinion I want based on what ever evidence I chose to accept....Your problem is you believe opinion needs to be proven in a court of law and that accusations carry no weight in accessing someone's guilt or innocence....Why do you believe those making allegations against Pell are liars and frauds mate???

Huh Huh Huh


Can you tell me why those alleged "facts" never became part of either of the two Pell Trials?  Are you asserting that the Crown failed to call relevant witnesses?  What level of legal incompetence are you alleging?


Watch "Revelations" and see the allegations which will become civil action against Pell....If you are a lawyer you would know civil actions cannot be used in a criminal trial unless introduced by the defence and other proceedings like the Royal Commission into child sexual abuse had testimony that was not introduced into the proceedings and would be ruled irrelevant by the judge if the prosecution went there (which is why so much of Pell's testimony was redacted)....I am alleging IMO Pell is guilty, you are full of crap!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #368 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 8:13pm
 
Pelly is rightly acquitted from false accusations.
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #369 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 10:24pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:26pm:
Squires, lieges, altar boys...apprentices. The British Empire was founded on man/boy relations. What did you think boys were doing when they carried a soldier's 'sword'?

Yes... What was Captain Cook doing with a 12 year old cabin boy, Nicholas Young.
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #370 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 11:24pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:08pm:
cods wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 4:39pm:
Yadda wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 12:22pm:

It has been advertised on Sky News today, on WIN, that Pell will appear on The Bolt Report,
this coming Tuesday night.
An interview with Andrew Bolt.



I'm going to watch.



I don't have much respect for the Catholic Church.

But i'm interested in this particular issue.   ......the Pell conviction, on the [solitary] 'evidence', of the accusation of one accuser.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1586218255/25#25
[quote]

There wasn't enough evidence for the jury [the '12 people good and true'], to come to any reasonable and safe decision to convict.

The judge was a complete goose imo, to allow the jury to proceed to any legal 'determination'.






I'm certainly not going to watch Pell making excuses to his sycophant Bolt.

His conviction was squashed it does not mean he's innocent of all misdoings.

Aiding & abetting paedophiles in continuing their criminal sexual abuse of children is also a criminal act IMHO.




an interesting comment gnads...

no offense but you directed me to watch Revelations more than once......why do you suppose you did that???>>


was that to see this case from another point of view.... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


yet here you are refusing to do the same thing  because it wont follow your dogma

I do hope you can see the hypocrisy....

you claim I am supporting him..  Roll Eyesbecause I dont fall into line with your concept....

now it looks like you are doing the same thing only accusing him..

Bolt is a Pell supporter.. maybe he is the only one who will give Pell his moment to speak freely... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

where else can he go?..


To give you some idea & look into the background of what has been going on for decades unchecked & swept under the carpet by senior Catholics here & around the globe.

Pells own case of his alleged sexual abuse is a small piece of his time in the Church & there's the other goings on ...... he was in Ballarat when one of the most notorious offenders Gerald Risdale who was convicted between 1993 and 2017 of a large number of child sexual abuse and indecent assault charges [highlight]against 65 children aged as young as four years. [/highlight]

Honestly I can't believe your not outraged & baying for the blood of these supposed protectors of children who were initially shielded by their superiors. [/quote]



he hasnt been tried for those cases though....that is the point...I am only looking at this case the one bought by a faceless nameless persons.......and I thought the trial was flawed.....and it appears 7 appeal judges thought likewise...

I am not protecting him or the Church...its not my place to do that.....but if I believe something is wrong I say so..

and his trial was flawed.....

mate he admits what happened back then 30 years ago was evil....it  dont we all see things more clearly in hindsight???.....he did the wrong thing back then he doesnt deny it....protecting the priests and the church what it was all about back then  he admits that was wrong.wrong wrong...but nothing can undo it...most of those who lived were dealt with and jailed...others are dead and past punishment.......but why should pell pay the price for all their badness  ....

a lot of things were covered up back then....  take a look at the NSW and Vic police force.....god knows what they got away with....but it was the times  as much as anything....would you ask one copper to pay the price for all the bad deeds other coppers did?????>..


to claim I am not outraged is stooopid....I cant stand paedophiles and the Royal Commission  brought an awful lot out and it wasnt just the Catholic Church either...

why are you not condemning all the other religions that also seems ed to turn a blind eye?....


maybe they are not such tall poppies..





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Re: Pell walks
Reply #371 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 11:25pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:57pm:
Quote:
he still tenses up when it comes on TV......he has been compensated  but it doesnt take away the years of living with it does it?....


By whom, cods? 



what the heck does that mean?
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #372 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 11:27pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 13th, 2020 at 7:08pm:
cods wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 4:39pm:
Yadda wrote on Apr 12th, 2020 at 12:22pm:

It has been advertised on Sky News today, on WIN, that Pell will appear on The Bolt Report,
this coming Tuesday night.
An interview with Andrew Bolt.



I'm going to watch.



I don't have much respect for the Catholic Church.

But i'm interested in this particular issue.   ......the Pell conviction, on the [solitary] 'evidence', of the accusation of one accuser.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1586218255/25#25
Quote:

There wasn't enough evidence for the jury [the '12 people good and true'], to come to any reasonable and safe decision to convict.

The judge was a complete goose imo, to allow the jury to proceed to any legal 'determination'.






I'm certainly not going to watch Pell making excuses to his sycophant Bolt.

His conviction was squashed it does not mean he's innocent of all misdoings.

Aiding & abetting paedophiles in continuing their criminal sexual abuse of children is also a criminal act IMHO.




an interesting comment gnads...

no offense but you directed me to watch Revelations more than once......why do you suppose you did that???>>


was that to see this case from another point of view.... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


yet here you are refusing to do the same thing  because it wont follow your dogma

I do hope you can see the hypocrisy....

you claim I am supporting him..  Roll Eyesbecause I dont fall into line with your concept....

now it looks like you are doing the same thing only accusing him..

Bolt is a Pell supporter.. maybe he is the only one who will give Pell his moment to speak freely... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

where else can he go?..


To give you some idea & look into the background of what has been going on for decades unchecked & swept under the carpet by senior Catholics here & around the globe.

Pells own case of his alleged sexual abuse is a small piece of his time in the Church & there's the other goings on ...... he was in Ballarat when one of the most notorious offenders Gerald Risdale who was convicted between 1993 and 2017 of a large number of child sexual abuse and indecent assault charges against 65 children aged as young as four years.

Honestly I can't believe your not outraged & baying for the blood of these supposed protectors of children who were initially shielded by their superiors.




gawd alright  the person who should have stopped the person doing something outside of the safety regulations....


as far as i know  not many owners of construction site

actually attend them... maybe thats wrong as well.. Roll Eyes

but they are always made accountable.

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Re: Pell walks
Reply #373 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 8:08am
 
Quote:
Watch "Revelations" and see the allegations which will become civil action against Pell....If you are a lawyer you would know civil actions cannot be used in a criminal trial unless introduced by the defence and other proceedings like the Royal Commission into child sexual abuse had testimony that was not introduced into the proceedings and would be ruled irrelevant by the judge if the prosecution went there (which is why so much of Pell's testimony was redacted)....I am alleging IMO Pell is guilty, you are full of crap!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Concerning the RC stuff.  The evidence given at a RC cannot be used as evidence in any subsequent proceedings including civil.  However, the Crown would have possession of the names of all witnesses who gave evidence at the RC and they could have called any of them to give evidence at Pell's Trials.
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Re: Pell walks
Reply #374 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 8:16am
 
Acquitted Cardinal George Pell is being investigated over fresh child abuse allegations by a new accuser.

Victoria Police has been conducting a secret probe into Cardinal Pell while he appealed against his convictions to the High Court of Australia.

It is believed the new allegation has been made by a man who works in a professional role.

The alleged incident is believed to date back to the 1970s.

The Herald Sun is not suggesting the allegation is true, only that a police investigation has been opened.

The 78-year-old has always vehemently denied any sexual abuse, and news of the fresh investigation is frustrating for those close to him.

“In any police matter there should be due process through the proper channels,” spokeswoman for the Cardinal, Katrina Lee, said.

In an interview to air tonight on Sky News, Cardinal Pell described his treatment by police in the original investigation as “extraordinary”.

Police have not yet approached him or his lawyers.

Details of the new claim come as Cardinal Pell awaits the public release of findings by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/freed-george-pell-faces-new-abuse-claims-...
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