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Is the Bible more cunning than the Quran? (Read 4707 times)
Abu
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Is the Bible more cunning than the Quran?
Jun 15th, 2019 at 2:05pm
 
A simple yes or no will suffice.

Quote:
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?


Barbara Bradley Hagerty

As the hijackers boarded the airplanes on Sept. 11, 2001, they had a lot on their minds. And if they were following instructions, one of those things was the Quran.

In preparation for the suicide attack, their handlers had told them to meditate on two chapters of the Quran in which God tells Muslims to "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."

"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."

When Osama bin Laden declared war on the West in 1996, he cited the Quran's command to "strike off" the heads of unbelievers. More recently, U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan lectured his colleagues about jihad, or "holy war," and the Quran's exhortation to fight unbelievers and bring them low. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, last year.

Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.

Defense Vs. Total Annihilation

"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."

Jenkins notes that the history of Christianity is strewn with herem. During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites. In the great religious wars in the 16th, 17th and 19th centuries, Protestants and Catholics each believed the other side were the Amalekites and should be utterly destroyed.

'Holy Amnesia'

But Jenkins says, even though the Bible is violent, Christianity and Judaism today are not for the most part.

"What happens in all religions as they grow and mature and expand, they go through a process of forgetting of the original violence, and I call this a process of holy amnesia," Jenkins says.

They make the violence symbolic: Wiping out the enemy becomes wiping out one's own sins. Jenkins says that until recently, Islam had the same sort of holy amnesia, and many Muslims interpreted jihad, for example, as an internal struggle, not physical warfare.

Andrew Bostom calls this analysis "preposterous." Bostom, editor of The Legacy of Jihad, says there's a major difference between the Bible, which describes the destruction of an enemy at a point in time, and the Quran, which urges an ongoing struggle to defeat unbelievers.

"It's an aggressive doctrine," he says. "The idea is to impose Islamic law on the globe."

Take suicide attacks, he says a tactic that Muslim radicals have used to great effect in the U.S., Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East. It's true that suicide from depression is forbidden in Islam but Bostom says the Quran and the Hadith, or the sayings of Muhammad, do allow self-destruction for religious reasons.

"The notion of jihad martyrdom is extolled in the Quran, Quran verse 9:1-11. And then in the Hadith, it's even more explicit. This is the highest form of jihad to kill and to be killed in acts of jihad."

'Out Of Context'

That may be the popular notion of jihad, says Waleed El-Ansary, but it's the wrong one. El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement and irjaf, or terrorism.

"All of those types of incidences [Sept. 11], Maj. Nidal Hasan and so forth those are all examples of irjaf, not jihad," he says. According to the Quran, he says, those who practice irjaf "are going to hell."

So what's going on here? After all, we all have images of Muslim radicals flying planes into buildings, shooting up soldiers at Fort Hood, trying to detonate a bomb on an airplane on Christmas Day. How to reconcile a peaceful Quran with these violent acts?
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« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:30pm by Abu »  
 
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 2:10pm
 
Quote:
El-Ansary says that in the past 30 years, there's been a perfect storm that has created a violent strain of Islam. The first is political: frustration at Western intervention in the Muslim world. The second is intellectual: the rise of Wahhabi Islam, a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam subscribed to by Osama bin Laden. El-Ansary says fundamentalists have distorted Islam for political purposes.

"Basically what they do is they take verses out of context and then use that to justify these egregious actions," he says.

El-Ansary says we are seeing more religious violence from Muslims now because the Islamic world is far more religious than is the West. Still, Jenkins says Judeo-Christian cultures shouldn't be smug. The Bible has plenty of violence.

"The scriptures are still there, dormant, but not dead," he says, "and they can be resurrected at any time. Witness the white supremacists who cite the murderous Phineas when calling for racial purity, or an anti-abortion activist when shooting a doctor who performs abortions.

In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
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moses
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 2:59pm
 
Oh dear not those bloody Amalekites again, I thought the Hebrews were told this about 4000 years ago to eradicate Amalek off the face of the earth.

I do believe that today 2019 A.D., not 1500 B.C., there are no more Amalekites in the land of Amalek, what's this all got to do with the present 15-6-2019?

Can some one show us where the Hebrews were told to kill forever and a day, every one on earth who did  not follow Judaism?

I do know that the call to rape torture and kill in the qur'an is written in the present tense, it is a call to arms forever until all religion is for allah.
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:02pm
 
moses wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Oh dear not those bloody Amalekites again, I thought the Hebrews were told this about 4000 years ago to eradicate Amalek off the face of the earth.


Oh, Moses, that's appalling. Are you saying Jews support genocide?
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moses
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:18pm
 
Not today they don't it's 2019 remember not 1500 B.C.

Why's that you say?

Apparently the Amalekites were waging a relentless and brutal campaign against the Hebrews about 4000 years ago, then Samuel (I think) said that God told him to wipe them totally off the face of the earth.

So yes genocide against the Amalekites is written in the O.T..

There were no instructions to kill anyone else. The violence stopped with the Amalekites about 4000 years ago.

Now the qur'an is totally different it proclaims rape torture and slaughter to the enemies of allah forever, until all religion is for allah.

conclusion:

The entire globe has nothing to worry about re Hebrews killing Amalekites it's stone dead in the water right now.

The entire globe has to be on terrorist alert against islamic terrorists, muzzies are the only global terrorist threat today right now 2019 the 21st century.
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« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:26pm by moses »  
 
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #5 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:40pm
 
So why does the Muselman support genocide? That was in 700 AD not 2019 AD, dear.
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moses
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #6 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:52pm
 
written in the present and future tense with the over riding theme of: rape torture and kill all the non believers until all religion is for allah. (it is not people and time specific)
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #7 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 5:05pm
 
moses wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 3:52pm:
written in the present and future tense with the over riding theme of: rape torture and kill all the non believers until all religion is for allah. (it is not people and time specific)


Haven't read the article, have you, dear?

There there.
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xeej
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #8 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:21pm
 
It seems to be only the Muslims who act on the violent bits in these old books these days, for crying out loud, people thought the Earth was flat back then, superstition was rife, we have telescopes microscopes Darwin Einstein and science now, put these books in the museum or burn them.

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Bobby.
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #9 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm
 
Why have a 2nd thread with the same name?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1560067893/15#15


I already answered on the other thread:

All Abrahamic religions are violent:
Judaism,
Christianity,
Islam.


The Jews were the first and the others just copied them.
The Koran is plagiarized straight out of the Old Testament.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #10 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:24pm
 
xeej wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:21pm:
It seems to be only the Muslims who act on the violent bits in these old books these days, for crying out loud, people thought the Earth was flat back then, superstition was rife, we have telescopes microscopes Darwin Einstein and science now, put these books in the museum or burn them.



Good point, Matty. Superior culture, aren't we?

Let's have a jolly old book-burning and show them who's boss.
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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #11 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:31pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
Why have a 2nd thread with the same name?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1560067893/15#15


I already answered on the other thread:

All Abrahamic religions are violent:
Judaism,
Christianity,
Islam.


The Jews were the first and the others just copied them.
The Koran is plagiarized straight out of the Old Testament.


Ah yes, but this ones about how kunning they are.

You?
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Bobby.
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #12 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:36pm
 
Abu wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:31pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
Why have a 2nd thread with the same name?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1560067893/15#15


I already answered on the other thread:

All Abrahamic religions are violent:
Judaism,
Christianity,
Islam.


The Jews were the first and the others just copied them.
The Koran is plagiarized straight out of the Old Testament.


Ah yes, but this ones about how kunning they are.

You?


I dunno what you mean.

I can tell that it's all because of the Jewssssssssssssssss.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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xeej
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #13 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:41pm
 
Abu wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:24pm:
xeej wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:21pm:
It seems to be only the Muslims who act on the violent bits in these old books these days, for crying out loud, people thought the Earth was flat back then, superstition was rife, we have telescopes microscopes Darwin Einstein and science now, put these books in the museum or burn them.



Good point, Matty. Superior culture, aren't we?

Let's have a jolly old book-burning and show them who's boss.

We would be all the better off if we did, Holy wars ffs.

I would like to think we have a superior culture as compared to the culture back then, or at least an evolving culture that can leave Gods behind in the distant past where they belong.

You Muslims are lagging a tad, Abubu.

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Abu
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Re: Is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Reply #14 - Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:47pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:36pm:
Abu wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:31pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
Why have a 2nd thread with the same name?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1560067893/15#15


I already answered on the other thread:

All Abrahamic religions are violent:
Judaism,
Christianity,
Islam.


The Jews were the first and the others just copied them.
The Koran is plagiarized straight out of the Old Testament.


Ah yes, but this ones about how kunning they are.

You?


I dunno what you mean.

I can tell that it's all because of the Jewssssssssssssssss.


Exactly. Your Jew controls Wall Street and the media. It's all fake news. Whitey can't even speak up for himself.

You're not allowed to say that.
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