Tweedledumb's missing mind is still missing and is incapable of understanding anything even remotely technical.

The Hydrogen Energy revolution is gathering pace all over the world now and here in France forklifts using hydrogen are much better than the time wasting inconvenient all electric models.

The small efficiency advantage of all electric is lost when the time wasting loss of productivity in the workplace is taken into account not to mention the steady loss of power as the battery is depleted plus the overheating problem.

Generating hydrogen with electrolysis fed by unreliable solar and wind is quite attractive and is sustainable and is already being done in various places around the world.



Air Liquide opens a new hydrogen station at Carrefour to supply Europe’s largest forklift trucks fleet
Thursday, November 22, 2018


Air Liquide inaugure chez Carrefour une nouvelle station hydrogène pour alimenter la plus grande flotte de chariots élévateurs en Europe

For several months now, Air Liquide has supplied and operated a hydrogen charging station for forklift trucks at the Carrefour Supply Chain logistics base in Vendin-le-Vieil (France).

This logistics platform, which is a central element of the group's supply chain, receives, stores, and distributes goods to stores throughout the region. 137 hydrogen-powered forklifts are in service on this site. The warehouse is now home to the largest number of hydrogen forklifts in all of Europe.

Air Liquide has installed a station containing three charging points located at different strategic areas within the platform. This allows each of the 137 forklifts provided by STILL to be charged in only three minutes, with a charge lasting an average of eight hours. This installation was co-financed by the FCH-JU (Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking) public-private partnership as part of the HyLift Europe* project.



With its expertise and skills in the field of gases, Air Liquide is developing a range of innovative solutions for clean mobility (hydrogen, biomethane, and cryogenic nitrogen for cold production in refrigerated trucks) to support clients like Carrefour – whose biomethane-powered trucks in five warehouses are already supplied by Air Liquide – seeking to significantly lighten the environmental impact of their vehicles and respond effectively to society's major challenges in terms of climate change and improving air quality. With this goal in mind, the upgrading of biogas and the use of hydrogen energy are fields that Air Liquide is actively developing.

https://energies.airliquide.com/air-liquide-opens-new-hydrogen-station-carrefour...

Frank,

no photoshop as I don't have it.

Just research to find relevant material and then display as message.

Simple really, and effective.

The simple fact is that the Hydrogen energy revolution is taking off all around the world and a picture is worth a 1000 words to facilitate understanding. Especially when dealing with non technical people.

The BIG incentive in cities around the world is to replace dirty pollution spewing big diesel trucks particularly those moving containers from the wharves AND passenger buses.

China has a massive pollution problem in their cities due mainly to car and truck exhausts and also due to coal power stations.

As most all electric cars are charged on coal power charge stations they contribute just as much pollution as petrol and diesel vehicles.

Relatively few people have the ability to use solar + battery charging at home or even mains power charging at home. Think people who park in the street or live in units with no metered power in the car space.

Hydrogen is the ultimate fuel to replace petrol and diesel as it is quick to refuel, gives the same or more range, and gives similar power.

If you think hydrogen production is complex then then just look at the production of gasoline and diesel.

All electric has a small efficiency advantage over hydrogen but the many time wasting inconveniences with all electric means a loss of productivity in the workplace which more than balances out the difference in efficiency.

Frank,  you are probably right. But for large diesel powered vehicles that produce lots of pollution hydrogen does appear to be the best solution.

Another area where hydrogen is looking very promising is energy storage as batteries are just far too small.


Understanding Hydrogen Energy Storage
Interview conducted by Mychealla RiceNov 1 2018

In this interview, Steve Szymanski, Director of Business Development at Nel Hyrdogen, talks to AZoM about Hydrogen Energy Storage (HES) and the applications it can be used for.

What is hydrogen energy storage (HES)?
In its simplest terms, it is storing energy in the form of hydrogen. Most commonly, when people talk about HES, they are referring to the conversion of electrical energy to hydrogen via the process of electrolysis.  Also known as “power-to-gas” or P2G, the process involves using electrical energy to split water, and then capturing and storing the product hydrogen.

Once the hydrogen is stored, there are different “use cases” for the hydrogen, but often people think of energy storage like a battery. That is, they want to convert the hydrogen back to electricity, so that you are creating a “power-to-gas-to-power” (P2G2P) device.

While it is feasible to simply make hydrogen and then convert it back to electricity (like a battery), that is not always the most valuable use for the hydrogen. For example, in markets where fuel cell vehicles are available, selling the hydrogen as a transportation fuel may be the highest value end-use.

How is hydrogen stored? Are there different ways to store hydrogen? Is storing hydrogen safe?
Hydrogen is most commonly stored as a compressed gas.  However, it can also be stored as a cryogenic liquid at very low temperatures. Additional methods of storing hydrogen include metal hydride materials, as well as various chemical hydrides.  In these cases, the hydrogen is bonded to a solid material and can be liberated upon demand.

There are also chemicals such as liquid organic hydrogen carriers and ammonia, that can act as molecular hydrogen carriers for long distance transportation. In general, you don’t want to ship hydrogen a long distance (> 100 miles) as a gas, as it is much more cost effective to ship it as either a cryogenic liquid or other liquid carrier.

Hydrogen storage systems can be very safe, provided that good design and safety practices have been followed. As the lightest element in the universe, hydrogen dissipates very rapidly if it escapes from a storage vessel.

Other hydrocarbon fuel gases are heavier than hydrogen (and sometimes heavier than air), so they can create hazards by pooling up around the storage system and creating a flammable/explosive atmosphere.  Hydrogen can also be transported over the road like any other compressed gas or cryogenic liquid.

There are many different ways to store hydrogen. The most common method is as a compressed gas.

What are the benefits of hydrogen energy storage? How can hydrogen storage help tackle the imbalance of the grid system?
HES can address much longer storage time scales than batteries. Solid state batteries are best suited to discharge times that are 4 hours or less.  HES can address longer duration needs (say days or even weeks), simply by adding more storage tanks, thereby effectively separating power from energy.  As more renewables are put on the grid, we will need a portfolio of energy storage solutions to address different time scales.

At high penetrations of Renewable Energy, seasonal storage will become important, as solar, wind, and even hydro resources can have large disparities in output from one season to the next.  Hydrogen allows you to do seasonal energy shifting by simply “banking” hydrogen during seasons of surplus and then dispatching the energy during seasons of shortage.  A hydrogen energy storage system can also be used as a fast response distributed energy resource for other grid balancing services such as up and down regulation and capacity markets.

Is hydrogen energy storage just for renewable energy sources?
No, hydrogen energy storage can be used for any situation where you want to store low value electrons and use them for high value applications.  For example, you may want to store some off-peak grid power and then use that energy during a period of high energy consumption to reduce demand charges.

Similarly, doing some time shifting of energy on the grid may offer a deferral of costly transmission and distribution upgrades. This represents another potential business case for energy storage on the grid.

Many applications use hydrogen energy storage. Renewable energy sources is just one.

How is stored hydrogen converted into electricity?
Hydrogen can be converted into electricity through several different technologies.  Most people consider PEM fuel cells as the preferred approach, because this is the most efficient conversion process and it is a zero-emission non-combustion approach.

The story of the future Hydrogen energy storage continues here

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=17077

I always love Juliars ignorance as to how we get the hydrogen.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 2:31pm:


It's the only time he endorses renewable energy LOL

BH is trying to start one of his circular things where he tries to change the subject because he doesn't understand it.

Naturally he uses the Greeny tactic of trying to make it all personal as he can't understand any FACTS.

For the dimwit Tweedle twins ignorance is bliss. They are success stories for the FABIAN Socialists dumbing down of Australia.

But all is not lost as Western Sydney gasses up.



Hydrogen gas trial in western Sydney could unlock $1.7bn in renewable exports. Chief scientist estimates Australia could reap benefits from hydrogen technology
Naaman Zhou Wed 31 Oct 2018 12.32 AEDT Last modified on Wed 31 Oct 2018 12.34 AEDT


An electrolysis installation in Germany. A $15m electrolysis plant to create hydrogen gas for electricty will be built in western Sydney as part of a five-year trial. Photograph: Bernd Settnik/EPA

Australians will soon power their homes with hydrogen in a five-year trial that scientists say could open the door to the widespread use of a new form of renewable energy.

Within two years, gas company Jemena and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (Arena) plan to mix a small amount of hydrogen into the domestic gas grid in western Sydney.

The zero-carbon fuel, which gives off only water vapour when burned, can be used for heating and cooking, and can replace most fossil fuels. A Jemena spokesman said a 10% hydrogen gas mix would make no noticeable difference for households.

In the long term, the CSIRO believes hydrogen can boost Australia’s renewable sector, replace petrol in cars and be sold for export.

Australia’s chief scientist, Dr Alan Finkel, has identified hydrogen export as a $1.7bn opportunity for Australia by 2030. Daniel Roberts from the CSIRO said hydrogen had been viewed “for decades” as the key to creating a zero-carbon society.

Hydrogen can be produced by passing a current of electricity through water, which separates hydrogen molecules from oxygen molecules. If the electricity is sourced from renewables, the gas becomes a zero-carbon fuel.

To launch the trial, Jemena and Arena will build a $15m electrolysis plant – the largest of its kind in Australia – in western Sydney.

The first homes will start using the hydrogen mix by 2020, and at maximum capacity, Jemena will produce enough hydrogen to power 250 homes and a vehicle refuelling station.

A Jemena spokesman said embracing hydrogen would help Australia’s transition to renewables as the gas could store electricity much like a battery.

“Solar and wind are reliant on the wind blowing or the sun shining,” he said. “With hydrogen, we can store it in the gas pipelines the same way you would a battery, and draw upon it when we need it.”

Roberts said Australia was uniquely placed to become one of the world’s biggest hydrogen producers because of its reliable supplies of solar and wind.

In August the CSIRO announced a breakthrough in the way hydrogen could be stored and shipped. Researchers in Queensland have developed a membrane that can extract high purity hydrogen from liquid ammonia.

This meant it was now feasible and cost-effective to transport hydrogen, Roberts said.

“One of the challenges with hydrogen is storing it and moving it around. By storing it as ammonia, it’s really easy to move around: it’s just liquid and we do it quite commonly.”

“We can now make hydrogen from the sun, turn it into ammonia, ship that around Australia or to Japan, and use it to fuel a car.”

According to a report prepared by the chief scientist’s office, countries such as Japan and South Korea are “hungry for hydrogen”. Japan’s government has set a target of 40,000 hydrogen cars on the road by 2020.

“When a big economy like Japan puts in strong long-term policies to import low-carbon energies, people listen,” Roberts said. “They don’t have much solar or wind resources, so they need to import that. It’s a real opportunity for us.”

The West Australian government has set up a renewable hydrogen council to drive the development of the export industry, particularly in the Pilbara.

“The Pilbara, with its abundance of sunlight, land and port infrastructure, will be front and centre to a renewable hydrogen future for WA,” the regional development minister, Alannah MacTiernan, told the West Australian.

“We are already seeing serious interest in renewable hydrogen in the Pilbara, with companies like Yara, Woodside and InterContinental progressing down this path.”

One kilogram of hydrogen contains 2.4 times the energy of one kilogram of natural gas, the chief scientist’s report said, and the gas was already “routinely transported” in Europe and the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/31/hydrogen-gas-trial-in-wester...

the new reverse fuel cell that was made in Brisbane is looking promising to make ammonia... it's far from being a commercial thing though and around the world they r still trying many different ways to make ammonia , seams the biggest problem is efficiency vs Speed... im sure it will be sorted in time.....
Still the processes for making air and water into ammonia then compressing it and cooling it for transport, then undoing it again just seams so complicated and wasteful…..
Then again if it uses power that will only be thrown away otherwise it might as well be used until a better solution is found