Australian Politics Forum - The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy

polite_gandalf

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #60 - Aug 15^th, 2018 at 2:06pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 1:27pm:

We do have customs and a culture, and it's reasonable, I think, to have some minimum standards of self expression.

Of course it is. But that doesn't mean we should legislate laws to enforce those standards. And in fact there's a very good reason not to legislate laws. Its one of the few valid slippery slope arguments. Burqa ban today, headscarf tomorrow. Until we get to French-level absurdity of literally banning women from wearing skin and hair-covering swimwear at a beach.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #61 - Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 12:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 4:00pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 2:51pm:

goldkam wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 2:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 2:43pm:

goldkam wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 2:40pm:

Those who speak out in that sense are a threat to the rights and freedoms of those who wear the burqua.

Could you explain that please?

Those who who comtinually speak out and support the banning of the burqua are in support of removing the rights and freedoms of those who wear a burqua.

These are rigths contained within various legislative documents

Agreed. Sorry I misread you - I though you meant those who speak out against the ban were the threat to their freedoms.

FD cunningly avoids calls to ban the burqa. Ask him - he won't say.

What FD wants is a ban on Muslims. If you catch him out in a moment of honesty, he'll tell you that.

Well FD does support banning burqas in the courtroom - based on the logic that it is literally no different (or perhaps worse) than klansmen in full KKK hoods turning up to intimidate people.

I tried getting him to explain which other circumstances he would dictate to women what they can and can't wear - but he got distracted insisting that the Islamic veil is at least as intimidating and threatening as the KKK outfit. And then after that, he spent another week denying he ever made such a comparison.

I would also support a ban on micky mouse face masks in a court room Gandalf. Of course, this does not change the fact that Islam is the greatest modern threat to freedom and democracy.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 1:07pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 7:36pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 2:33pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 12:55pm:

Do you think people who speak out against the burqa ban are the biggest threat to freedom and democracy?

No. And I don't even know why you are asking this. It makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2018 at 1:12pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

Can you cite a greater modern threat to freedom and democracy than Islam Gandalf?

Yes, hypocrite freedom warriors (like you) who turn a blind eye to the persecution/discrimination of minorities.

Yes FD - hypocrite freedom warriors who turn a blind eye to the discrimination/persecution of minorities are a big threat to our freedom of democracy.

Not sure how you confused that with people who speak out against persecuting minorities (like the burqa ban). Its literally the exact opposite.

Confused eh? You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban. Though to be fair, you were attempting to argue that this proves I am a threat to freedom and democracy. You never did manage to make sense back then either.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #62 - Aug 15^th, 2018 at 11:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 1:27pm:

We do have customs and a culture, and it's reasonable, I think, to have some minimum standards of self expression.

Of course it is. But that doesn't mean we should legislate laws to enforce those standards. And in fact there's a very good reason not to legislate laws. Its one of the few valid slippery slope arguments. Burqa ban today, headscarf tomorrow. Until we get to French-level absurdity of literally banning women from wearing skin and hair-covering swimwear at a beach.

That's true too, but we can't constitutionally ban them.

I would, however, like to see women - prisoners - come out of the dark.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #63 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm: You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban. Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #64 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 3:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban.

Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it.

Well, let's not jump to any conclusions here, G. Let's do the right thing and let FD to speak for himself. That's curious.

FD, do you support a ban on the burqa?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51573 At my desk.	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #65 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:04pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm: freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm: You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban. Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it. Can you quote me?
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Karnal

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #66 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:07pm

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban.

Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it.

Can you quote me?

No need, FD. Just say whether you support banning the burqa. We're all friends here. I've said, G's said, we've all said what we think.

You?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51573 At my desk.	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #67 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:13pm Obviously not. I have told Gandalf this many times.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39497 Gender:	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #68 - Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:43pm freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:13pm: Obviously not. I have told Gandalf this many times. Okay....so let's clear the air, Effendi. Do you support the right of Muslim women to wear the burqa, and/or whatever else they decide they will wear?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #69 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:17am

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban.

Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it.

Can you quote me?

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 8:57pm:

I'm with the judge on this one. Face coverings should be banned in court.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #70 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:19am freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:13pm: Obviously not. I have told Gandalf this many times. Except in a courtroom FD, you should include that little disclaimer.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #71 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:25am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:17am:

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

You have repeatedly acknowledged that I spoke out against the burqa ban.

Ah thats right, that one time 5 years ago. Don't hear much of that now do we? In fact now you support banning it.

Can you quote me?

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2018 at 8:57pm:

I'm with the judge on this one. Face coverings should be banned in court.

Just about everything is banned in a courtroom Gandalf, and the point is usually to strip someone of their freedom. You have the right to sit down and shut up.

Do you really see this as the same thing?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #72 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:57am freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:25am: You have the right to sit down and shut up. I'm pretty sure you can do that wearing a veil.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 99238	Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy Reply #73 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 11:12am freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 6:13pm: Obviously not. I have told Gandalf this many times. Thanks, FD. So you support the right of the Muselman to wear what he likes?
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freediver

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #74 - Aug 17^th, 2018 at 12:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:57am:

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:25am:

You have the right to sit down and shut up.

I'm pretty sure you can do that wearing a veil.

So freedom of speech and freedom of movement can go out the window, so long as you don't deny Muslims the right to cover their face?

Are you actually saying you don't distinguish between bans on wearing it in public, and bans on wearing it in a courtroom?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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