Australian Politics Forum - Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans

SadKangaroo

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #45 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 7:33am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 17^th, 2018 at 6:06am:

see karmal, you and longie and gweggy go on and on about trump being "dishonest".

but with his body language and his persona, he comes across as very raw and , therefore, because he isnt "calibrating" and "self censoring", he comes across as very authentic and honest.

To those who want to believe. To those who listen to what he actually says, and fact checks, the truth about his "honesty" is revealed.

You're basically describing a used car salesman. Makes you think he's being frank and honest, tells you what you want to hear, sells you a lemon.

Quote:

its the skill of a great communicator.

But speaks nothing of honesty, only deception.

Quote:

now, that doesnt mean there arent problems.
but the continual attack of trump as dishonest by the left is a very very bad idea.

The solution shouldn't be telling the left to stop holding Trump to account or more importantly to the standard he demands of his opponents.

You should be telling Trump to stop lying.

It's not hard. All he has to do is actually achieve the positive things he wants to talk about, not keep having to lie about the actions he's taken or their significance.

The people I've encountered over the years, the fake and more so the weak salespeople who have to pretend to their audience that they've sold hundreds of X and never had a complaint, only every great feedback, so their mark is guaranteed to be happy with their product etc because of their past (but fraudulent) record, even though they're a newbie and sold nothing.

This is what Trump does daily. This is why he attacks the sources so very hard that will call him on this, mainly the "Corporate Media" or the "Opposition".

He's conditioned his supporters to look to him for guidance rather than looking for the truth and the facts of a given situation. And it works.

But people of true strength rely on their record and their actions to puff out their chest if they even bother to puff it out. People like Trump have to exaggerate or flat out lie so they can puff out their chest and puff it out bigger than everyone else around them to stand out and appease their own ego.

Again as has been mentioned, it's a very Beta thing to do.

Quote:

because all donald has to do is keep repeating the idea that "they are out to get him" everytime a lefty attacks and its , essentially, "game over".

he wins.

With those who are fooled by his tactics, well you're right there.

Quote:

say what you like about trump but he's a winner.

According to himself, yes.

Quote:

i checked up on another lie longy told.

i said trump didnt spend much on his campaign and was very very clever to get the leftie media to give him 5 billion dollars worth of free publicity.

longie called me a liar and said donald won because he tipped in so much of his own coin Wink

.

now thats simply not true.

I'm not sure the exact claim, but Trump did spend a lot of his own money on his campaign. Yes he was able to stand out amongst the other Republican candidates and was always saying provocative things that the media would report on so he did get a lot of free publicity if you'll call it that.

Quote:

and the continued attacks by the left give donald free media followed by free media followed by more free media.

so he's not only a winner, he is just punishing the left for their own stupidity.

He needs to be held to account for his actions. I don't blame anyone who tried to achieve this.

Quote:

the left catn deal with a guy like trump.

My fear is that to do so, the left will find a candidate within their ranks like Trump and that sort of thing will become the new norm for American politics and leadership.

That would be one of the worst legacies Trump may leave behind.

Quote:

until you admit that he is the "superior man", you are going nowhere.
you have an addiction to your own ideology.
you cling to it like a drowning man clinging to a piece of driftwood.
if you let go and alter that ideology , you know you will drown.
this shows the danger of being "ideologically possessed".

Jesus. Trump exudes weakness and is always fishing for validation. What makes him a great salesman is he's able to hide his hurt when it comes to rejection very well. At least many many years ago. Now he wears it on his sleeve more than ever.

The cult of Ideology that you speak of also applies to his supporters, and you as you choose not to see this in him.

Be wary that you're not falling for the same trappings you're attacking those who see the world differently from you as doing.

Quote:

me, i think trump is a sly cunning manipulator.

Agreed. I dare say however then you won't go a step further and be honest about how he's manipulating the people.

Quote:

and in 2018, when dealing with the rest of the world and the ideologues of the left, that IS THE PERSONA of the SUPERIOR MAN.

We must have a very different interpretation of what it means to be a true Man, let alone a Superior Man.

A true man is a sacred thing, something to be admired. Trump is a pompous loudmouth who avoids accountability like the plague.

If he were the man you think he is, he would take responsibility for his actions, for the actions of those he hand picks and most of all would not need to lie or manipulate on the industrial scale that he does.

Actions speak louder than words.

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #46 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 8:33am

sad,

politics has always been about lying and manipulation.

read machievelii's "the prince".

the important thing is that you advance the interests of your tribe (the fine people of the USA).

they would be lambs to the slaughter if they were held to the same lofty standard that you are calling for.

when no other nation is playing by the rules with the USA, you need a streetfighter to protect the interests of the people .

america has been traumatised over and over by allowing itself to be naive .
and you get traumatised to the extent that you dont recognise that life is harsh and inherently unfair.

surely 9/11 was a wake up call.

people have had enough of being naive
they want a president who has been thru the fire.
trump has very thick skin and he doesnt seem to give a f**k about anything but winning.

thats a good story to sell.
people in the USA have had enough of being naive and having other countries do them over.

and not a moment too soon

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans Reply #47 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:36am aqua, you are a frigging deluded fool.
Back to top	AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..." IP Logged

Mattyfisk

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #48 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

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« Last Edit: Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:43am by Mattyfisk »

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #49 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #50 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #51 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:25am

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

well let me say this about that.

the problems mentioned above wont be solved by being honest and transparent (the "weak sauce" diplomacy of an obama).

the problems mentioned above will be solved by being rat cunning, knocking your opponent off balance, keeping your opponent guessing, playing push pull, being manipulative, and being generally "machieavellian".

see you say the american system is founded on honesty.

i say it is founded on the supremacy of the individual.

and the individual is always in a darwinian battle to move up the hierachy.

think of yourself as a wolf , battling for survival.

do you honestly and openly walk across the meadow towards the deer and declare your intention to eat it. (the obama method)

or do you ambush and strike when it least expects it.(the trump method)

people have to choose between being "predator or prey"
humans are a species which are both. (interestingly)

i think americans are pyshcologically predators and not prey.
trump vibes with that

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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #52 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:34am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 6:50am:

yes mechanic.

it was stunning to see the lefty media the night of the election.
ideologues need to get out more.

there is something very repulsive about the weak and supplicating message of the left.

people just arent buying it.

here in australia we have weak malcolm offering tax cuts and 60 % of people saying they would rather he paid down debt. people dont want this weak suckhole type leader any more.
and shorten is at about a 30 % approval.

thats 70 % of the population who dont like a lefty even when the current PM is appallingly unpopular.

the future belongs to the strong maculine robust tough and gritty leader.

in china, in russia, in america , in the phillipines, people want a dominator in charge.

and not a moment too soon.

more sickening Leftist behaviour this week...

Quote:

Kathy Griffin to First Lady Melania Trump: “F**k You, Melanie… You Feckless Piece of Sh*t”

Following Melania Trump weighing in on the emotionally charged debate about border separations,
trashy washed up comedian Kathy Griffin lost her mind on Twitter, calling the First Lady a “feckless complicit piece of s–t.”

Stephanie Grisham, the communications director for the First Lady, told CNN on Sunday that Mrs. Trump hopes there can be a bipartisan effort for immigration reform.

“Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform,” Grisham said. “She believes we need to be a country that follows all laws, but also a country that governs with heart.”

Griffin, naturally, responded to the classy statement from the First Lady in the most ridiculous and petulant way humanly possible
.

and more Hollywood Elitists Holier than Thou garbage...

Quote:

Jane Fonda Tells Hollywood Elitists It’s Time To Take Back ‘Our Government’

When Obama was president, liberal celebrities were constantly visiting the White House for lavish parties, but now that’s all over.

This might explain why so many of these folks don’t like Trump.

They think DC belongs to them and was taken away.

Wouldn’t that also explain why Jane Fonda used the term ‘our government’ at a recent event?

report:

Jane Fonda to Hollywood Elite: Time to Take ‘Back Our Government’

Actress and political activist Jane Fonda warned a crowd of Hollywood elites of the “existential crisis” facing America under the Trump administration, urging them that the only solution is
“taking back our government.”

After winning the Female EMA Lifetime Achievement Award at the Environmental Media Association (EMA) first Honors Benefit Gala, Fonda said that Democrats taking the House in the upcoming mid-terms elections was crucial to saving the country.

“This is an existential crisis that we’re in,”
said the 80-year-old Grace and Frankie star. “We have to do everything we can to take back the house in November. If anything can save us, it’s gonna be taking back our government.”

Other actresses present at the ceremony included Elizabeth Olsen and Fonda’s Grace and Frankie co-star Lily Tomlin, who told The Hollywood Reporter:
“[Trump] is dangerous
— he’s unfortunately dangerous to the planet, if nothing else. If we could raise Trump’s consciousness, that would be helpful.”

What Jane Fonda and others in Hollywood can’t seem to grasp is that the government belongs to all of the American people, not just them.

Keep up the Good Work

"Hanoi Jane’

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Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #53 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:41am

yeah mechanic.

its bad to be ideologically possessed.

because you cling to that ideology like a piece of driftwood in the ocean and you think if you let go, you'll drown.
thats the leftist way.

now the conservative , the individual doesnt need an ideology.
he has his own personal ideology and he doesnt need "our washington or our government or our anything".

he understands that its all up to him as an individual.

hence he doesnt need to cling to that driftwood or fear drowning,

he has taken the sensible approach to life.

he has taught himself to swim.

he is "independant " of a "collective ideology" (marxism is all about the collective).

he understands that the "declaration of independance" means he must move forward as an "individual" Wink

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #54 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:50am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

well let me say this about that.

the problems mentioned above wont be solved by being honest and transparent (the "weak sauce" diplomacy of an obama).

the problems mentioned above will be solved by being rat cunning, knocking your opponent off balance, keeping your opponent guessing, playing push pull, being manipulative, and being generally "machieavellian".

Bringing US troops home requires rat cunning?

Anyway, Trump isn't even interested in most of the issues you've outlined. He's just removed sanctions on the Chinese company, ZTE for, as you put it, stealing intellectual property.

ZTE is a legitimate global security threat - the sort of threat that allows presidents to apply sanctions and tariffs in the interest of national security.

Chinese steel? No national security interest there, but that's what Trump's starting a trade war over.

If Trump was Machiavellian, he'd know his brief. Instead, he just takes truly Machiavellian players - like China, like Russia, like North Korea - at their word.

Trump ignored advice from the CIA, FBI and Dept Homeland Security that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. Instead, he said he believed Putin. He said he trusted him. Why would Putin lie?

Trump is actually happy to hand the global order over to Russia and China. He lobbied to get Russia back into the G7 while everybody else wanted to talk trade. He praised Xi Xinping's elevation to the status of emperor while the rest of the world were agape at the idea of a Chinese president with unlimited power.

This is the transition of the new world order. Where the US has previously stood with the G7 and the Western alliance since WWII, Trump stands with the Russians. Where the rest of the world has spent the last 70 years implementing democratic reforms, Trump wants to return to tyranny.

This goes against our Western values. We want power in the hands of the people. You want it in the hands of despots.

There's the difference, Aquascoot.

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #55 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:02pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

well let me say this about that.

the problems mentioned above wont be solved by being honest and transparent (the "weak sauce" diplomacy of an obama).

the problems mentioned above will be solved by being rat cunning, knocking your opponent off balance, keeping your opponent guessing, playing push pull, being manipulative, and being generally "machieavellian".

Bringing US troops home requires rat cunning?

Anyway, Trump isn't even interested in most of the issues you've outlined. He's just removed sanctions on the Chinese company, ZTE for, as you put it, stealing intellectual property.

ZTE is a legitimate global security threat - the sort of threat that allows presidents to apply sanctions and tariffs in the interest of national security.

Chinese steel? No national security interest there, but that's what Trump's starting a trade war over.

If Trump was Machiavellian, he'd know his brief. Instead, he just takes truly Machiavellian players - like China, like Russia, like North Korea - at their word.

Trump ignored advice from the CIA, FBI and Dept Homeland Security that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. Instead, he said he believed Putin. He said he trusted him. Why would Putin lie?

Trump is actually happy to hand the global order over to Russia and China. He lobbied to get Russia back into the G7 while everybody else wanted to talk trade. He praised Xi Xinping's elevation to the status of emperor while the rest of the world were agape at the idea of a Chinese president with unlimited power.

This is the transition of the new world order. Where the US has previously stood with the G7 and the Western alliance since WWII, Trump stands with the Russians. Where the rest of the world has spent the last 70 years implementing democratic reforms, Trump wants to return to tyranny.

This goes against our Western values. We want power in the hands of the people. You want it in the hands of despots.

There's the difference, Aquascoot.

people dont mind tyranny.
people would rather be a slave in a system they understood then be thrown naked into the jungle at night.
socialism is chaotic, it about tearing down structures that keep people safe.
the patriachy is what keeps people safe and Donald has climbed to the top of the patriachy.

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longweekend58

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #56 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:19pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

if you want to lead you have to pay the cost. Thats the deal of leadership across the board and no different with countries. 'Leaders' assume a responsibility to protect and guide those they lead. You have no idea what actual leadership is.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #57 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:20pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:02pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

well let me say this about that.

the problems mentioned above wont be solved by being honest and transparent (the "weak sauce" diplomacy of an obama).

the problems mentioned above will be solved by being rat cunning, knocking your opponent off balance, keeping your opponent guessing, playing push pull, being manipulative, and being generally "machieavellian".

Bringing US troops home requires rat cunning?

Anyway, Trump isn't even interested in most of the issues you've outlined. He's just removed sanctions on the Chinese company, ZTE for, as you put it, stealing intellectual property.

ZTE is a legitimate global security threat - the sort of threat that allows presidents to apply sanctions and tariffs in the interest of national security.

Chinese steel? No national security interest there, but that's what Trump's starting a trade war over.

If Trump was Machiavellian, he'd know his brief. Instead, he just takes truly Machiavellian players - like China, like Russia, like North Korea - at their word.

Trump ignored advice from the CIA, FBI and Dept Homeland Security that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. Instead, he said he believed Putin. He said he trusted him. Why would Putin lie?

Trump is actually happy to hand the global order over to Russia and China. He lobbied to get Russia back into the G7 while everybody else wanted to talk trade. He praised Xi Xinping's elevation to the status of emperor while the rest of the world were agape at the idea of a Chinese president with unlimited power.

This is the transition of the new world order. Where the US has previously stood with the G7 and the Western alliance since WWII, Trump stands with the Russians. Where the rest of the world has spent the last 70 years implementing democratic reforms, Trump wants to return to tyranny.

This goes against our Western values. We want power in the hands of the people. You want it in the hands of despots.

There's the difference, Aquascoot.

people dont mind tyranny.

people would rather be a slave in a system they understood then be thrown naked into the jungle at night.
socialism is chaotic, it about tearing down structures that keep people safe.
the patriachy is what keeps people safe and Donald has climbed to the top of the patriachy.

You are an f...ing moron. You deserve all of the crap you get with nonsense like that.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #58 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 1:34pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:02pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

These are all different issues, but why didn't you support Obama, who addressed the same set of issues?

well let me say this about that.

the problems mentioned above wont be solved by being honest and transparent (the "weak sauce" diplomacy of an obama).

the problems mentioned above will be solved by being rat cunning, knocking your opponent off balance, keeping your opponent guessing, playing push pull, being manipulative, and being generally "machieavellian".

Bringing US troops home requires rat cunning?

Anyway, Trump isn't even interested in most of the issues you've outlined. He's just removed sanctions on the Chinese company, ZTE for, as you put it, stealing intellectual property.

ZTE is a legitimate global security threat - the sort of threat that allows presidents to apply sanctions and tariffs in the interest of national security.

Chinese steel? No national security interest there, but that's what Trump's starting a trade war over.

If Trump was Machiavellian, he'd know his brief. Instead, he just takes truly Machiavellian players - like China, like Russia, like North Korea - at their word.

Trump ignored advice from the CIA, FBI and Dept Homeland Security that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. Instead, he said he believed Putin. He said he trusted him. Why would Putin lie?

Trump is actually happy to hand the global order over to Russia and China. He lobbied to get Russia back into the G7 while everybody else wanted to talk trade. He praised Xi Xinping's elevation to the status of emperor while the rest of the world were agape at the idea of a Chinese president with unlimited power.

This is the transition of the new world order. Where the US has previously stood with the G7 and the Western alliance since WWII, Trump stands with the Russians. Where the rest of the world has spent the last 70 years implementing democratic reforms, Trump wants to return to tyranny.

This goes against our Western values. We want power in the hands of the people. You want it in the hands of despots.

There's the difference, Aquascoot.

people dont mind tyranny.

Are you saying the people of North Korea like it?

And this is the model you want to apply to the West?

Forget the Prince, dear. Many people believe that to be satire. Instead, you should read the Discourses.

Here, Machiavelli argued that an autocracy could transition to a democracy, but people will never accept a democracy becoming an autocracy.

The reason North Korea, Russia and China accept their autocratic governments is they've never known any better. They're fine with state-run media, internet censorship and government propaganda because they simply don't know the difference.

The very purpose of mass literacy and education is self-determination. We believe in societies that cultivate people's resistance to being slaves in a system they understand. You want to hoodwink people on mass in the interests of state control.

That's the difference, Aquascoot. We Westerners have a different set of values.

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Mattyfisk

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Australian Politics

Posts: 92745
Gender: male

Re: Trump wants Americans to behave like North Koreans
Reply #59 - Jun 18^th, 2018 at 1:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 12:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 18^th, 2018 at 9:37am:

Aquascoot, the entire model of the US government is based on eradicating what Machiavelli espoused. This is what Americans are so proud of. It's what gives them the exceptionalism that allows them to invade other countries in the name of freedom.

Americans believe their system - their president - is above lying. They believe it has integrity.

Are you saying it doesn't?

I'm not sure why you think the US is being done over. For the past 70 years, it's ripped everybody else off. It leads all the institutions and always gets the best deals. Agriculture, pharma, patents, brands, financial services. Uncle calls the shots.

i think the american people see the asians stealing their intellectual property
i think the american people see 2 nations (japan and germany) doing very well thanks to americas marshall plan and sponging off the american military.
i think americans see samsung ripping off apple and then 32,000 troops paid for by uncle protecting korea.
i think americans see mexicans taking advantage of uncle and selling lots of drugs to american teens .
i think americans see the US funding the UN and the UN sh**t talking america
i think americans see their soldiers dying to look after ungrateful middle eastern countries .

now you can try to fight this with "logic" but thats the community perception.

and trump has tapped into that

and not a moment too soon

if you want to lead you have to pay the cost. Thats the deal of leadership across the board and no different with countries. 'Leaders' assume a responsibility to protect and guide those they lead. You have no idea what actual leadership is.

Republics and constitutional monarchies place leaders at the service of citizens. The only way this can be turned around in a state with a free media and a fair electoral system in place is through mass lies.

To date, Trump has not been successful in turning the US into an autocracy. All he's done is expose the lies necessary to do it.

Aquascoot, of course, calls this emotional intelligence.

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