Australian Politics Forum - Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!

Bobby.

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #30 - Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:19pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 2:04pm:

Yeah it’s easy to ignore that it costs a quarter the price to use electricity than petrol for the same distance.
Tesla say that thair drivetrain and battery will last 1.6 million kms but even if only 2000 cycles it’s 1.2 million kms
Electric cars can be charged over night so no need for gas stations ever again unless it’s a long trip over 600 kms in a day....
Almost no servicing for the life of the car.
No fumes and quiet ,
The biggest thing is getting rid of crude oil from the Middle East
Still plenty against Evs but the positives r stacking up

I see it differently.
I see petrol has energy density magic.
There is just a huge amount of power even in a litre of petrol.
Electric batteries will never equal it.

But here's the point -
future generations will be angry with us for
using up all that valuable petrol.
They won't have the choice of petrol or electric -
there will only be electric.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #31 - Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:41pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:19pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 2:04pm:

Yeah it’s easy to ignore that it costs a quarter the price to use electricity than petrol for the same distance.
Tesla say that thair drivetrain and battery will last 1.6 million kms but even if only 2000 cycles it’s 1.2 million kms
Electric cars can be charged over night so no need for gas stations ever again unless it’s a long trip over 600 kms in a day....
Almost no servicing for the life of the car.
No fumes and quiet ,
The biggest thing is getting rid of crude oil from the Middle East
Still plenty against Evs but the positives r stacking up

I see it differently.
I see petrol has energy density magic.
There is just a huge amount of power even in a litre of petrol.
Electric batteries will never equal it.

But here's the point -
future generations will be angry with us for
using up all that valuable petrol.
They won't have the choice of petrol or electric -
there will only be electric.

Umm batteries store energy, petrol is energy, 2 diferant things, but I do agree with u just burning fossil fuel instead of using the petro chemicals seams to be a crime. Wink

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 123217 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !! Reply #32 - Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:45pm Dear Don, if & when Thorium takes over as our primary power source then it will cost not even 1 dollar to charge up an electric car. Energy will be so cheap that they will be able to make petrol out of coal economically.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #33 - Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:51pm

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 3:41am:

That is kind of the point about my post saying that we should be using resources of our own land rather than that of the Middle East dictating to our terms of how much we pay.

Sure. But electric cars are plain stupid in this country. We do not have the population density or other infrastructure required to make them economically feasible. And why would we go for electric when we have all this other cheap and almost non polluting energy source. Add to that battery replacement and disposal.

Australia is a centralised country. Much like many other developed countries. We could roll out a heap of recharge stations all over the cities and major regional centres. Over time, we will see smaller towns adopt recharge stations. If it costs the relative today's cost of $20 to recharge electric cars in the year 2030, then people will adapt to using electric cars in the next several years (even if it costs $30,000 for an electric car -- that is assuming that electric cars come down in price).

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Bobby.

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #34 - Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:54pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:51pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 3:41am:

That is kind of the point about my post saying that we should be using resources of our own land rather than that of the Middle East dictating to our terms of how much we pay.

Sure. But electric cars are plain stupid in this country. We do not have the population density or other infrastructure required to make them economically feasible. And why would we go for electric when we have all this other cheap and almost non polluting energy source. Add to that battery replacement and disposal.

Australia is a centralised country. Much like many other developed countries. We could roll out a heap of recharge stations all over the cities and major regional centres. Over time, we will see smaller towns adopt recharge stations. If it costs the relative today's cost of $20 to recharge electric cars in the year 2030, then people will adapt to using electric cars in the next several years (even if it costs $30,000 for an electric car -- that is assuming that electric cars come down in price).

Of course they'll come down in price.
As soon as the Chinese work out how to make
10s of millions of them for
under $20K each -
everyone will want one.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #35 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:15am

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:51pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 3:41am:

That is kind of the point about my post saying that we should be using resources of our own land rather than that of the Middle East dictating to our terms of how much we pay.

Sure. But electric cars are plain stupid in this country. We do not have the population density or other infrastructure required to make them economically feasible. And why would we go for electric when we have all this other cheap and almost non polluting energy source. Add to that battery replacement and disposal.

Australia is a centralised country. Much like many other developed countries. We could roll out a heap of recharge stations all over the cities and major regional centres. Over time, we will see smaller towns adopt recharge stations. If it costs the relative today's cost of $20 to recharge electric cars in the year 2030, then people will adapt to using electric cars in the next several years (even if it costs $30,000 for an electric car -- that is assuming that electric cars come down in price).

I’m not sure what u mean , electric cars r already a quarter of the price of petrol to power the same distance. What is the $20 ? Wink

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rhino

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #36 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:45am

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 12:45am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 11:10pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 6^th, 2018 at 3:12pm:

Whilst these lucky Tesla owners enjoy a free charge at the local shopping mall Wink

This is something you would never ever see at any fossil fool bowser Sad

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/TeslaAtChadtsone_-_Copy__2_.jpg

No way in the world these charging stations are going to remain free. I can guarantee that as soon as there is a big changeover to electric it will cost the same as petrol to charge up. Let the suckers buy electric.

Would you rather see people charge their cars for the relative cost of what a petrol car would cost, just so that the Middle East gets off their smug arses and realise that the world does not rely on them any more?

I look forward to the day when I switch on the news and find out that the Middle East cannot fund their stupid wars because the oil industries can't fund the armies for the sake of who gets to live where over there.

Id rather see us use what we have abundant resources of and which is relatively non polluting. i.e.natural gas.

You do realize natural gas is a fossil fuel and also realeases lots of methane. It’s burns a little cleaner but it’s still just liquid gasoline. Wink

No, it does not release lots of methane, its composed mostly of methane and produces much less pollution than other fossil fuels, mainly because it is much more efficient and burns cleanly. And no, its not "liquid gasoline".

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rhino

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #37 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:48am

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 3:41am:

That is kind of the point about my post saying that we should be using resources of our own land rather than that of the Middle East dictating to our terms of how much we pay.

Sure. But electric cars are plain stupid in this country. We do not have the population density or other infrastructure required to make them economically feasible. And why would we go for electric when we have all this other cheap and almost non polluting energy source. Add to that battery replacement and disposal.

Every house is a recharge station and when the batteries finally need replacing they are almost 100% recyclable.
Liquid petroleum gas is still petrol.............and all the effects to underground water really worth the hassle. Wink

No one is talking about LPG, you seem a little confused here. And as far as your recycling claim, you are also wrong
Quote:

However, it does not make any economic sense to recycle the batteries. Batteries contain only a small fraction of lithium carbonate as a percent of weight and are inexpensive compared to cobalt or nickel. The average lithium cost associated with Li-ion battery production is less than 3% of the production cost. Intrinsic value for the Li-ion recycling business currently comes from the valuable metals such as cobalt and nickel that are more highly priced than lithium. Due to less demand for lithium and low prices, almost none of the lithium used in consumer batteries is completely recycled.

While lithium is 100% recyclable, currently economics do not add up to recycle it

https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #38 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 7:25am

rhino wrote on Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:45am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:22pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 12:45am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 11:10pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 6^th, 2018 at 3:12pm:

Whilst these lucky Tesla owners enjoy a free charge at the local shopping mall Wink

This is something you would never ever see at any fossil fool bowser Sad

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/TeslaAtChadtsone_-_Copy__2_.jpg

No way in the world these charging stations are going to remain free. I can guarantee that as soon as there is a big changeover to electric it will cost the same as petrol to charge up. Let the suckers buy electric.

Would you rather see people charge their cars for the relative cost of what a petrol car would cost, just so that the Middle East gets off their smug arses and realise that the world does not rely on them any more?

I look forward to the day when I switch on the news and find out that the Middle East cannot fund their stupid wars because the oil industries can't fund the armies for the sake of who gets to live where over there.

Id rather see us use what we have abundant resources of and which is relatively non polluting. i.e.natural gas.

You do realize natural gas is a fossil fuel and also realeases lots of methane. It’s burns a little cleaner but it’s still just liquid gasoline. Wink

No, it does not release lots of methane, its composed mostly of methane and produces much less pollution than other fossil fuels, mainly because it is much more efficient and burns cleanly. And no, its not "liquid gasoline".

Vehicals only run on LPG in Australia (except a few government busses).... Natural gas is less energy dence, however its still fracked and collected with the LPG.
From Wiki
CNG, or compressed natural gas, is stored at high pressure, 3,000 to 3,600 pounds per square inch (21 to 25 MPa). The required tank is more massive and costly than a conventional fuel tank. Commercial on-demand refueling stations are more expensive to operate than LNG stations because of the energy required for compression, the compressor requires 100 times more electrical power

Might as well use that electricity to recharge a battery and be done with it, also the energy to extract it from the ground then to ship from the processing plant then taken to a gas station then pumped into a car, each bit uses more electricity and fuel.

. Natural gas uses more electricity to make and distribute to a vehicle than it uses to charge a ev so why bother.

I do agree with u though for a quick fix all vehicles in Australia should run on LPG as we have so much of it and it's going overseas. Wink

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« Last Edit: Jun 9^th, 2018 at 7:59am by DonDeeHippy »

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #39 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 7:30am

rhino wrote on Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:48am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 3:41am:

That is kind of the point about my post saying that we should be using resources of our own land rather than that of the Middle East dictating to our terms of how much we pay.

Sure. But electric cars are plain stupid in this country. We do not have the population density or other infrastructure required to make them economically feasible. And why would we go for electric when we have all this other cheap and almost non polluting energy source. Add to that battery replacement and disposal.

Every house is a recharge station and when the batteries finally need replacing they are almost 100% recyclable.
Liquid petroleum gas is still petrol.............and all the effects to underground water really worth the hassle. Wink

No one is talking about LPG, you seem a little confused here. And as far as your recycling claim, you are also wrong
Quote:

However, it does not make any economic sense to recycle the batteries. Batteries contain only a small fraction of lithium carbonate as a percent of weight and are inexpensive compared to cobalt or nickel. The average lithium cost associated with Li-ion battery production is less than 3% of the production cost. Intrinsic value for the Li-ion recycling business currently comes from the valuable metals such as cobalt and nickel that are more highly priced than lithium. Due to less demand for lithium and low prices, almost none of the lithium used in consumer batteries is completely recycled.

While lithium is 100% recyclable, currently economics do not add up to recycle it

https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge

and yet all the car manufacturers r recycling their battery packs........ Either reusing for home supply or pure recycle, Tesla said they can 97% recycle the batteries. Wink

Also the packs r good for at least 1.6 million KM's so they will be used for some time before recycling Wink

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !! Reply #40 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 8:52am Australia is highly urbanised, electric cars make perfect sense here. We also have plenty of sun so can recharge the cars at home—no or little fuel cost. An electric car is cheaper to run over its lifecycle—much less servicing needed.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #41 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 10:21am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:38pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 8:17am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 6^th, 2018 at 3:12pm:

Whilst these lucky Tesla owners enjoy a free charge at the local shopping mall Wink

This is something you would never ever see at any fossil fool bowser Sad

Quote:

Supercharging

Below are additional program details which apply to Tesla vehicles under the Supercharger program.

Model S and X receive 400 kWh (~1,600 km) of Supercharger credits annually.

For usage above the complimentary annual credits provided, a small fee applies.

Model 3 does not receive annual Supercharger credits, and a small fee applies to Supercharge.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/supercharging

$120 K plus government charges for cheapest Tesla in Australia

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/brand-new/tesla/?sortby=~Price&offset=0&setype=...

Lithium batteries only last for around 2000 cycles then they need to be replaced which would be very expensive which is a fact idiots like rustynail ignore

Really f.ckface ?? After the 2000th charge they are completely dead ??

Youtube isn't a credible source ya dopey dim wit.

If lithium batteries last forever why have Apple, Samsung ,etc not figured this out with their lithium batteries for phones and computers, how long do lithium batteries last in phones and computers?

With your youtube nonsense does charging battery to 80% to make it last longer mean range is reduced by 20% on advertised range from Tesla?

Then refute what he has said with evidence to the contrary or STFU !!

We only need to look at the title of this video for the first lie, not a good start is it.

Grin

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #42 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 11:28am

lee wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 5:46pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

so it show's that lots of partial cycles doesn't hurt the battery like you where suggesting Lee... wouldn't it be terrible if it COULD only do 19000 Mini cycles....

Any EVIDENCE of that?

I see they claim 20,000 cycles for lithium titanate batteries. I see no evidence of their use in EV's. But possibly Powerwalls.

Yep there sure is Wink

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #43 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 11:30am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 9^th, 2018 at 10:21am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 1:38pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 7^th, 2018 at 8:17am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 6^th, 2018 at 3:12pm:

Whilst these lucky Tesla owners enjoy a free charge at the local shopping mall Wink

This is something you would never ever see at any fossil fool bowser Sad

Quote:

Supercharging

Below are additional program details which apply to Tesla vehicles under the Supercharger program.

Model S and X receive 400 kWh (~1,600 km) of Supercharger credits annually.

For usage above the complimentary annual credits provided, a small fee applies.

Model 3 does not receive annual Supercharger credits, and a small fee applies to Supercharge.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/supercharging

$120 K plus government charges for cheapest Tesla in Australia

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/brand-new/tesla/?sortby=~Price&offset=0&setype=...

Lithium batteries only last for around 2000 cycles then they need to be replaced which would be very expensive which is a fact idiots like rustynail ignore

Really f.ckface ?? After the 2000th charge they are completely dead ??

Youtube isn't a credible source ya dopey dim wit.

If lithium batteries last forever why have Apple, Samsung ,etc not figured this out with their lithium batteries for phones and computers, how long do lithium batteries last in phones and computers?

With your youtube nonsense does charging battery to 80% to make it last longer mean range is reduced by 20% on advertised range from Tesla?

Then refute what he has said with evidence to the contrary or STFU !!

We only need to look at the title of this video for the first lie, not a good start is it.

Grin

look at the data idiot. You really have no case.

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lee

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Re: Premium unleaded at $1.70. Wow what a bargain !!
Reply #44 - Jun 9^th, 2018 at 11:50am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 9^th, 2018 at 11:28am:

Yep there sure is

Nope There sure isn't.

According to the Teslanomics, paid for by Tesla infomercial, they say up to 1,500 charges. That is nowhere near 20,000 charges.

Also there is no mention in the infomercial about Tesla using Lithium titanate batteries.

Do you ever watch this crud yourself; to see if they make the claims you say they do?

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